Warne VS Indias

Warne VS Indias

Post by Syed Naushad Akht » Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:39:14


I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
in australia lately.
thanks in advance.

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Sadiq Yus » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 02:22:20


Quote:

>I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
>a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

        Yes, he did play against India, and didnt get on very well. Played
2 tests, had 408 balls , 9 maidens , 1 wicket for 228 runs, at an average
of 228.00  :-) :-) . However, as I said earlier, he's far better now than
he was then.

Quote:
>Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
>in australia lately.

        Dont think he did, no.

Quote:
>thanks in advance.

        No problem :-)

                        Sadiq [ statman ] Yusuf

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Man from Mar » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 03:16:37


Quote:

>I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
>a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

>Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
>in australia lately.
>thanks in advance.

In the Sydney test against India he was 1 for 150.

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Robert E » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 04:27:44



| I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
| a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
against the WI).

| Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
| in australia lately.

I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
often bowling long strings of maidens.

Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
him, and avoid going out.

kre

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by PVR Narasimha R » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 04:39:50


:) >I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
:) >a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

:)      Yes, he did play against India, and didnt get on very well. Played
:) 2 tests, had 408 balls , 9 maidens , 1 wicket for 228 runs, at an average
:) of 228.00  :-) :-) . However, as I said earlier, he's far better now than
:) he was then.

Sadiq, I basically agree with you and also the stats you gave are accurate.
However, I guess they don't really tell the right story.

A breakup of his stats:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sydney test  :  45 - 7 - 150 - 1

                      [Notes: Shastri and SRT made career best (then) 206
                              and 148 (n.o.), which were both said to be
                              brilliant knocks. Warne was unlucky to bowl to
                              them when they were going great guns. After
                              Shastri was out, Warne hardly bowled and so he
                              didn't have a chance to take the lower order
                              wickets. Unlucky....]

Adelaide test:   7 - 1 - 18 - 0

                      [Notes: Indian batting collapsed very early and Warne
                              hardly got a chance to bowl.]

                16 - 1 - 60 - 0

                      [Notes: Most of Warne's overs were when Azhar was at
                              his destructive best (chasing a 350 (~)
                              target). We know what a brilliant destroyer of
                              spin Azhar is when at best. He made a quick
                              106 that day.]

So, when I look back, I think his only bad performance was at Sydney. After
all, even Shastri took 25-8-45-4 in the second innings of that test!

However, there's a difference between second innings and first innings.
Also, between bowling to Shastri and SRT at best and bowlnig to the Aussies
under pressure (they just managed to save the test finally).

To conclude, I think his average of 228 doesn't really reflect on how he
did. Actually (Harsha Bhogle's evaluation notwithstanding), I remember
hearing nice words about him then. He was, after all, very very raw then!

However, I should agree he is faaaaar from being a "great". Even Kumble who
managed 50 wickets in his last 9 tests (5 abroad and 4 at home) is still far
(note: that's only "far", not "faaaaar" :) :)) from being a "great".

PVR

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Shamim Naq » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 06:19:34

Quote:

> I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
> in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
> England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
> accurate enough - give away too many runs....

> Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
> play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
> or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
> him, and avoid going out.

> kre

Here I think Border was being clever and using Warne as his trump card
against England. He knew that Smith, Hick and Stewart had trouble against
Mushtaq last summer. Even Gooch had trouble spotting Mushtaq's googly.
So the idea must have been to not let the English batsmen face Warne
and learn how to read him. As it is, I understand, that Warne has a
limited variety (for a leg spinner) and if the English batsmen start
to spot his top and flipper, it could be a very different story.
In the county games leading up to Old trafford, Warne did not bowl a
single top spinner or flipper --just leg spinners.

I suspect a lot of English batsmen are watching videos of Warne at the
moment.

Shamim

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Gautham » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 05:54:43

Quote:

>England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
>accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
>don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
>with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
>often bowling long strings of maidens.

How about this interesting statistics...

Kumble never gave more than 4 runs a over in his seven ODI against
South Africa.
(In the last OD, he bowled only 9 overs and gave something like
 35 runs or so)

- gautham.N

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Balakrishnan Gopalakrishn » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 00:52:07

Quote:



> | I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
> | a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

> I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
> improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
> against the WI).

Well, not performing well against India doesn't rule out a spin bowler from
being good. No one would doubt that John Emburay, Abdul Qadir and John
Bracewell etc are good bowlers. But even at their peaks, Indian batsmen never
had much trouble against them. The reason is that since the pitches in India
are more suited for spin than pace, most Ranji teams play 2-3 spin bowlers,
and many of them are geniunely good. Constant exposure to good spinners have
made them immune to even the best spinners. India batsmen tend to show better
foot-work against the spinners than most other batsmen. The same used to be
the case with Pakistani batsmen till a decade back, when the Pakistanis
started concentrating on pace Instead of spin. However, this is certainly not
an ideal set-up as most Indian batsmen have weaknesses against geniune fast
bowling.

Quote:

> | Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
> | in australia lately.

> I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
> in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
> England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
> accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
> don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
> with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
> often bowling long strings of maidens.

I remember that L. Sivaramakrishnan had a lot of success in the B&H world cup
in 85. But then again he usually came on to bowl when the score was about 35-5
most of the time! Sigh! Those were the days..

Quote:

> Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
> play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
> or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
> him, and avoid going out.

Wouldnt work if the bowler is genuinely good. A few shots, yeah! But sooner or
later he is bound to hole out. I remember Richards trying to hit Maninder
Singh out of the attack in a one-day match at Sharjah. I'll never forget that
over. Maninder already had haynes and was looking good. Richards pulled him
for four of the first ball. He took a swipe at the second missed and nearly
got stumped. Maninder called in two men from the boundary about 20 yards ,
literally tempting Richards to go for the big one. Richards stepped out to the
next one even before the ball was bowled and got a fast-ball at the block-hole
which he managed to keep away. Then the King hit the fourth ball over long on
and the ball bounced a yard in front of the line. Maninder pulls in his
fielders another 5 yards. "C'mon, Viv try it again"! Viv spits out his gum,
and starts walking out even as Maninder starts his run. Millions of Indians
pray that it woould be another fast ball. But no, Maninder flights the ball, i
close my eye and Viv goes for the big one. He connects and teh ball goes a
mile into the sky. The camera-man frantically triss to keep track of it. Then
to everyone's disbelief, the comentator announces that Kiran More is getting
under the ball. Viv got a top edge and the ball was still hovering over first
slip! More made no mistake and Maninder did his then popular 'patka dance'!
Well, India didn't win. Richie Richardson had other Ideas. But that sure was a
great over.

        -Balky

Quote:

> kre

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by S Govindaraj » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 07:17:17


Quote:



> > | I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
> > | a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

> > I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
> > improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
> > against the WI).

> Well, not performing well against India doesn't rule out a spin bowler from
> being good. No one would doubt that John Emburay, Abdul Qadir and John
> Bracewell etc are good bowlers. But even at their peaks, Indian batsmen never
> had much trouble against them. The reason is that since the pitches in India
> are more suited for spin than pace, most Ranji teams play 2-3 spin bowlers,
> and many of them are geniunely good. Constant exposure to good spinners have
> made them immune to even the best spinners. India batsmen tend to show better
> foot-work against the spinners than most other batsmen. The same used to be

While this holds true for the majority of the cases, any victory
achieved IN India by the opposing team has been due to spinners.
Indians are very good playing attacking spin, which the variety
displayed by most of the leg spinners. But they (Indians) often get
tied down by accurate (wickit-to-wickit, as Mushtaq Mohammad would put
it). They get impatient and tend to hit out and in the process give
their wickets away. Bowlers like Tauseef Ahmad, Iqbal Qasim, Mohammad
Nazir (Jr), Pat Pocock etc. have been quite successful in India. But,
most other batsmen are content, just not to lose wickets, and these
bowlers are only moderately successful against them.

Quote:

> > England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
> > accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
> > don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd

This again may not be true. I think Narendra Hirwani and Asoka De
Silve (SL leg spinner in the mid 80s), were pretty economical. The
same goes with Anil Kumble (I think his debut figures in England were
12 overs for 19 runs in the 1st one day). But these bowlers are not
capable of turning the ball very much on a batting track, like, say,
Prasanna or Chandra. They rely on the batsman to make the mistake. The
last leg spinner to buy his wicket in one day matches, I think, was
L.Siva. Pity, he went downhill so fast.

Quote:

> > Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
> > play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
> > or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
> > him, and avoid going out.

>    -Balky
> > kre

PS: On this topic, does anybody remember the Calcutta one day between
India and Pakistan in 1987. Qadir did not bowl even a single over. I
remember seeing Imran hand the ball to Qadir, but immediately take it
back after seeing Srikkanth at the other end (Srikkanth made 123).
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_ S_ ._ G_ o_ v_ i_ n_ d_ a_ r_ a_ j_ a_ n

_ G_ r_ a_ d _ s_ t_ u_ d_ e_ n_ t _ M_ e_ c_ h_ a_ n_ i_ c_ a_ l _ E_ n_ g_ i_ n_ e_ e_ r_ i_ n_ g _ a_ t  _ R_ u_ t_ g_ e_ r_ s  _ U_ n_ i_ v_ e_ r_ s_ i_ t_ y_ ,
_ P_ i_ s_ c_ a_ t_ a_ w_ a_ y_ , _ N_ J

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Phil She » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 12:13:15

Quote:



>| I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
>| a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

>I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
>improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
>against the WI).

 He definately played in Sydney and I think also in Adealide. 1 for 228
are the figures I seem to remember from that series.

Quote:
>I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
>in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
>England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
>accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
>don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
>with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
>often bowling long strings of maidens.

 He's played one game against New Zealand in New Zealand for
10 overs 2 for 40. It's the general Australian  selectors policy that
Wrist spinners can't put the ball where they want to, whilst the
innocious off spinner can. see Greg Matthews.
 The selector appear  to categorize bowlers by type rather than quality
as can be exampled by Paul Reiffel's selection as a one day bowler. It
is a shame because of course we don't see blokes like Swervin except when
tour numbers' are limited like in NZ.
 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by TUFAIL JAWA » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 09:48:50


Quote:
>I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
>a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.
>Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
>in australia lately.
>thanks in advance.

 I was just testing
 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Thomas James Jon » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 13:28:39



|>
|> | I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
|> | a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.
|>
|> I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
|> improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
|> against the WI).
|>
|> | Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
|> | in australia lately.
|>
|> I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
|> in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
|> England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
|> accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
|> don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
|> with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
|> often bowling long strings of maidens.
|>
        Yes, but he has also looked vulnerable to attack.
        Even in the first test, Hick (and in Second Innings Gooch)
        hit a lot of runs off him, which in a one-day could be
        too costly.

        tom

|> Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
|> play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
|> or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
|> him, and avoid going out.
|>
|> kre

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Tim BY » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 12:17:37


Quote:

> I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
> a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

Can't give you exact figures, but in Warne's debut test against India at
Sydney, he took 1 for something like 200 runs.  His sole wicket was that
of Ravi Shastri, who compiled a double century in the process.  Warne
bowled pretty well in that test, but his figures didn't really represent
that.  For a kid raw as they come in test cricket (he had only
previously played only a handful of first-class games, and was hardly a
regular in the Victorian team), it was quite a promising, yet harsh
debut.  I believe he played in one other test in that particular series,
with very little if any success.  He may well have had the single wicket
to his name at the end of the series.

Quote:
> Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
> in australia lately.

Warne has never played in a one-day international, and I personally hope
he never does.  In my opinion, and in many others', one-day cricket
often has the effect of causing a bowler to become more defensive in
order to stop the batsman from scoring freely, particularly a spinner.
Remember Peter Taylor???  He took 5 wickets on debut for Australia in a
test against England.  He was then relegated to the one-day squad where
he became arguably the best one-day spinner.  But he never, ever, even
came close to reproducing his test form.  The same mistake should not be
made with Warne.  He is probably the brightest spinning prospect in
world cricket right now, and his natural attacking style shouldn't be
tampered with.

Quote:
> thanks in advance.

Your welcome.

'night

tim.
--
====================================================================
|  Tim BY C                    | "Will the misty master break me?" |
|  LaTrobe University          | "Will the key unlock my mind?"    |

====================================================================

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Conrad Levist » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 18:38:22



: | I was wondering if warne played against india when they were in Australia
: | a year back or so, if yes - how did he manage against indian batsmen.

: I think he played one test, and didn't do well at all.   He's
: improved a lot since then though (he's improved since the series
: against the WI).

        His figures for the two tests were 1/150 and 0/78, though he
bowled better than the figures would suggest.

: | Also if played in the one-day triangular series against pak and WI held
: | in australia lately.

: I'm not sure that he didn't play at all, but he's not usually picked
: in limited over games - he didn't play in any of the three against
: England.   This may be because of some theory that leg spinners aren't
: accurate enough - give away too many runs, and the wickets they take
: don't compensate in a limited over game,   This would be a bit odd
: with Warne, as he's been a very economical and accurate bowler recently,
: often bowling long strings of maidens.

        The reason he is economical in tests is because it is easy to
score at 6 an over against a spinner. Just not easy to do that and stay in
for a while. In one day matches he could prove very costly. This is of
course all theory and I hope that if he does play the inferior version of
the game, Shane Warne proves me wrong.

: Or, it could be that someone has decided that if opposing batsmen get to
: play against him in a game where they have no choice but to hit out
: or lose (survival being useless), then they may learn to score from
: him, and avoid going out.

        If that is the reason, then it is a stupid one.
--
Conrad Leviston  | Got to find a brightness in the soul,

cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied,
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)

 
 
 

Warne VS Indias

Post by Spaceman Spif » Sat, 12 Jun 1993 16:51:41



Quote:

>their wickets away. Bowlers like Tauseef Ahmad, Iqbal Qasim, Mohammad
>Nazir (Jr), Pat Pocock etc. have been quite successful in India. But,

tauseef ahmed has succeeded in ONE test in india- bangalore in 86-87 on a
minefield.
iqbal qasim has succeeded in TWO tests in india- bombay in 79-80 on a poor
pitch and in the bangalore test mentioned above
mohammed nazir has succeeded in ONE test in india- nagpur in 83-84 when he
took 5-80(?). he got only about 7-8 wickets in the whole series.
pat pocock has succeeded in ONE test in india- new delhi in 84-85 when india
tossed away the test match in the hour after lunch.

Stay cool,
Spaceman Spiff

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
where we should go, we just ride.
Gone are the broken eyes we saw through in dreams
gone, both dream and lie.