Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by OraWi » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:22:47


74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
and
        moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
        Boucher behind the wicket.

       Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
       A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
       MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

The record till now...
Mat.- 5
Inn. - 8
Runs - 101
Higest - 25
AVG - 12.6

Njoy.....

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Fish Womp » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:51:27


Quote:

>74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
>and
>        moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
>        Boucher behind the wicket.

>       Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
>       A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
>       MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

>The record till now...
>Mat.- 5
>Inn. - 8
>Runs - 101
>Higest - 25
>AVG - 12.6

>Njoy.....

Unless he gets 100 in the second innings, I would think so.

fish

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by FRAN » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:34:32

Quote:

> 74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
> and
>         moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
>         Boucher behind the wicket.

>        Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
>        A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
>        MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

> The record till now...
> Mat.- 5
> Inn. - 8
> Runs - 101
> Higest - 25
> AVG - 12.6

> Njoy.....

I say give him Sydney and then see. What's the difference?

Fran

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Fish Womp » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:02:51


Quote:


>> 74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
>> and
>>         moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
>>         Boucher behind the wicket.

>>        Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
>>        A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
>>        MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

>> The record till now...
>> Mat.- 5
>> Inn. - 8
>> Runs - 101
>> Higest - 25
>> AVG - 12.6

>> Njoy.....

>I say give him Sydney and then see. What's the difference?

You weren't quite so lenient with Katich, who had a lot more runs on
the board at Test level.

I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

fish

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>Fran

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by FRAN » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:41:13

Quote:



> >> 74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
> >> and
> >>         moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
> >>         Boucher behind the wicket.

> >>        Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
> >>        A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
> >>        MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

> >> The record till now...
> >> Mat.- 5
> >> Inn. - 8
> >> Runs - 101
> >> Higest - 25
> >> AVG - 12.6

> >> Njoy.....

> >I say give him Sydney and then see. What's the difference?

> You weren't quite so lenient with Katich, who had a lot more runs on
> the board at Test level.

On his day, Katich can score 50, 60 or maybe even a hundred against an
understrength attack on a flat pitch at about 60/100. Workmanlike?
sure, but really, there are a couple of dozen players who could manage
that.

On *his* day Symonds could take a full strenth attack for t eh fastest
double ton on record from 4-100.

I want him to be that player in tests. He might not make it, but one
can hope.

Quote:
> I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
> made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

No, Jaques needs more time

Fran

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Ian Galbrait » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:39:15


[snip]

Quote:
> I say give him Sydney and then see. What's the difference?

A loss here would make all the difference.

--
You Can't Stop The Signal

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Fish Womp » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:48:45


Quote:




>> >> 74.5 Nel to Symonds, OUT: gone first ball! pitched outside off stump
>> >> and
>> >>         moving away slightly, Symonds pushes at it and gets an edge to
>> >>         Boucher behind the wicket.

>> >>        Australia 207/5, Partnership of 0
>> >>        A Symonds  c Boucher b Nel  0 (1b 0x4 0x6)
>> >>        MEK Hussey 7* (38b 1x4) A Nel 16.5-5-43-2 (2nb)

>> >> The record till now...
>> >> Mat.- 5
>> >> Inn. - 8
>> >> Runs - 101
>> >> Higest - 25
>> >> AVG - 12.6

>> >> Njoy.....

>> >I say give him Sydney and then see. What's the difference?

>> You weren't quite so lenient with Katich, who had a lot more runs on
>> the board at Test level.

>On his day, Katich can score 50, 60 or maybe even a hundred against an
>understrength attack on a flat pitch at about 60/100. Workmanlike?
>sure, but really, there are a couple of dozen players who could manage
>that.

>On *his* day Symonds could take a full strenth attack for t eh fastest
>double ton on record from 4-100.

Hope for his sake he can do it in the 2nd innings.

fish

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>I want him to be that player in tests. He might not make it, but one
>can hope.

>> I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
>> made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

>No, Jaques needs more time

>Fran

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Mad Hamis » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:23:06


Quote:

>I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
>made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

What are you talking about when you say "this form of the game"
because Clarke hasn't exactly had a good run in tests recently and
Symonds has a 163 and 2 50s in the domestic first class matches.

In addition if you're going to bring Clarke in ahead of Symonds then
you're either going to have 1 spinner in Sydney or you have McGrath
and Lee to open and your next best option for a seamer is Ponting.
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001

Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Cricketwalla » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 22:26:35

Quote:



> >I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
> >made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

> What are you talking about when you say "this form of the game"
> because Clarke hasn't exactly had a good run in tests recently and
> Symonds has a 163 and 2 50s in the domestic first class matches.

Clarke may not have had a good run in tests lately - but its still
better than Symonds' run. And he has at least shown the ability
to make test hundreds in the past, which cant be entirely forgotten.

Yes, Symonds may have had a 163 and 2 fifties in domestic
first class matches... someone remind me, what did Clarke get
in his last domestic fc game again?

Quote:
> In addition if you're going to bring Clarke in ahead of Symonds then
> you're either going to have 1 spinner in Sydney or you have McGrath
> and Lee to open and your next best option for a seamer is Ponting.

So are we back to picking Symonds as the allrounder (after 2
wickets in 6 tests at 85.00)? Hey, maybe the Indian selectors
*arent* so silly when the pick Ganguly as the allrounder, then :-)

Ive been a Symonds fan for a long time - thought he'd be great
against spin especially, based heavily on his U19 performances
in India (and subsequent ODI performances at times too). But he
was given a chance in Sri Lanka against Murali et al, and didnt
do it - this after being unfairly picked ahead of Katich. Katich,
when given that same chance against the same attack, did very
well. Now Symonds was given another chance at home, replacing
Clarke (who had a great start to his test career, and really didnt
do that badly in the Ashes either - and a couple of "World XI"
games and a game or two against a not-so-strong WI outfit
shouldnt cancel that out). - and so far Symonds has signally
failed to do it again.

He *has* to make it big in the second innings IMHO. If not, today
was the last straw  - a big series against RSA, a 0-0 tie going
into the second game, Australia cruising at 200/3 looking to
bring the spinners into action with a big total. Ponting fell
after a ton, you cant really blame him. Symond's first-baller
IMHO changed the course of hte entire match and maybe
the series - suddenly you have a slightly out of sorts keeper
needing to do a repair job rather than a demolition job, he
fails too, and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. The
middle-order hasnt done it again - Hodge clearly deserves to
be retained, so does Hussey so far. The only one who
consistently has been part of the middle-order collapses (and
contributed to them) has been Symonds. With his ability,
with his talent, in a winning team they could have maybe given
him more rope and hope that he figured it out eventually and
repay the faith. But in the present circumstances with the
team fighting and struggling to maintain its winning ways,
the rope for someone who hasnt performed in tests ever to
date (no matter his talent level) must surely be running out -
and probably *has* run out if he doesnt come thru in I2.

If he fails in I2, Id probably bring Clake back for him myself.
And his test career would probably be over - his ability and
talent is still there, and if he goes back and does amazingly
well at fc level.. then maybe, down the road, if Australia is
a winning team again and good enough to be able to afford
to risk a spot for a 3-5 game run... *then* he may get one
last and final chance. But it would be pretty unlikely IMHO.

Sadiq [ Roy is 3rd seamer here - how much will he bowl? ] Yusuf

Quote:
> --
> "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
> Stuart Adamson 1958-2001

> Mad Hamish
> Hamish Laws


 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by JM » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 04:57:17

Quote:

> In addition if you're going to bring Clarke in ahead of Symonds then
> you're either going to have 1 spinner in Sydney or you have McGrath
> and Lee to open and your next best option for a seamer is Ponting.
> --

I think it was Ian Chappell that described him yesterday best - he is picked
as a batter and a bowling option, not as an all rounder.  He is primarily in
the team to score runs.

He might be useful to get rid of ten overs in an ODI and taking the odd
wicket with players throwing the bat, but as a serious option for taking
wickets in Tests?   I doubt it.

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by M.. » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:07:21

Quote:

> Now Symonds was given another chance at home, replacing
> Clarke

No, he's replaced Watson.

<snip>

Quote:
> If he fails in I2, Id probably bring Clake back for him myself.

I realise that the media would have you believe otherwise, but
Australia does have other players.

Moby

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by maie » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:12:52


Quote:


> > Now Symonds was given another chance at home, replacing
> > Clarke

> No, he's replaced Watson.

> <snip>

> > If he fails in I2, Id probably bring Clake back for him myself.

> I realise that the media would have you believe otherwise, but
> Australia does have other players.

> Moby

cameron white for one. couldnt do any worse than Simmo, and he does bowl
regularly. Could give the fat dude from SA a go, cosgrove, he looks solid
( technique wise ) , symonds has never looked solid, always flashy.
 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by alve » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:58:59


Quite possibly. But I do wish that the NSV jackals howling for his ***
would realise that he's only in team now because their howling got MacDill
in. You simply cannot go into a Test with just 2 quicks and two
leg-spinners unless a spinner's deck is absolutely guaranteed. And even
then a Bitson spinner would be useful in case you got stuck.

alvey  

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by alve » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:04:18

Quote:




>>> Now Symonds was given another chance at home, replacing
>>> Clarke

>> No, he's replaced Watson.

>> <snip>

>>> If he fails in I2, Id probably bring Clake back for him myself.

>> I realise that the media would have you believe otherwise, but
>> Australia does have other players.

>> Moby

> cameron white for one. couldnt do any worse than Simmo, and he does bowl
> regularly.

I'm a fan of White but he's a spinner. The spot is for a med.

Could give the fat dude from SA a go, cosgrove, he looks solid

Quote:
> ( technique wise ) , symonds has never looked solid, always flashy.

Hopes anyone?

alvey
in briz, home of the Bitsons.

 
 
 

Is this the END of SYMOND'S test run

Post by Mad Hamis » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 11:25:38

On 26 Dec 2005 05:26:35 -0800, "Cricketwallah"

Quote:




>> >I think they'll bring back Clarke for his home Test. At least he has
>> >made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game.

>> What are you talking about when you say "this form of the game"
>> because Clarke hasn't exactly had a good run in tests recently and
>> Symonds has a 163 and 2 50s in the domestic first class matches.

>Clarke may not have had a good run in tests lately - but its still
>better than Symonds' run. And he has at least shown the ability
>to make test hundreds in the past, which cant be entirely forgotten.

>Yes, Symonds may have had a 163 and 2 fifties in domestic
>first class matches... someone remind me, what did Clarke get
>in his last domestic fc game again?

The exact comment I was questioning is that "At least he [Clarke] has
made decent scores in recent times in this form of the game"

Here's Clarke's last series in tests
Pakistan in Australia, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    4   0    83  35   27   20   20.75   0   0   0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in New Zealand, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    3   0    38  22    8    8   12.66   0   0   0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng     5    9   0   335  91   56   40   37.22   0   2   0
ICC Super Series Test Match (Aus/ICC) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
Aus     1    2   0    44  39    5    -   22.00   0   0   0
The Frank Worrell Trophy (Aus/WI) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
 Aus     2    3   1    24  14*   5    5   12.00   0   0   0

If we're talking tests then recent times is a bit misleading, if we're
talking first class then Symonds has as well.

Quote:

>> In addition if you're going to bring Clarke in ahead of Symonds then
>> you're either going to have 1 spinner in Sydney or you have McGrath
>> and Lee to open and your next best option for a seamer is Ponting.

>So are we back to picking Symonds as the allrounder (after 2
>wickets in 6 tests at 85.00)? Hey, maybe the Indian selectors
>*arent* so silly when the pick Ganguly as the allrounder, then :-)

What he's basically offered as a bowling this summer in tests has been
somebody who can come on, keep it fairly tight and make people take
risks to attack him.

He's bowled 36 overs and taken 1-85 which makes it 2.36 runs per over.

Quote:

>Ive been a Symonds fan for a long time - thought he'd be great
>against spin especially, based heavily on his U19 performances
>in India (and subsequent ODI performances at times too). But he
>was given a chance in Sri Lanka against Murali et al, and didnt
>do it

He got 4 innings.
as I recall it he got an iffy decision and once got out hitting out
(24 from 18) when quick runs were wanted for a declaration.

he missed out in a couple of tests, it happens.

Quote:
>- this after being unfairly picked ahead of Katich.

He was picked ahead of Katich because Australia needed a bowling
option from their top 6 and Katich couldn't bowl his wrist spin.

If that's unfair then it was unfair to pick Katich ahead of Love...

Quote:
> Katich,
>when given that same chance against the same attack, did very
>well.

Katich vs Sri Lanka
3    6   0   126  86   15   14   21.00   0   1

Quote:
> Now Symonds was given another chance at home, replacing
>Clarke (who had a great start to his test career, and really didnt
>do that badly in the Ashes either - and a couple of "World XI"
>games and a game or two against a not-so-strong WI outfit
>shouldnt cancel that out).

Here's Clarke's last series in tests
Pakistan in Australia, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    4   0    83  35   27   20   20.75   0   0   0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in New Zealand, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    3   0    38  22    8    8   12.66   0   0   0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng     5    9   0   335  91   56   40   37.22   0   2   0
ICC Super Series Test Match (Aus/ICC) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
Aus     1    2   0    44  39    5    -   22.00   0   0   0
The Frank Worrell Trophy (Aus/WI) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
 Aus     2    3   1    24  14*   5    5   12.00   0   0   0

by way of Comparison here are the series that had people screaming for
Hayden's head.

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     4    8   0   244  58   39   35   30.50   0   1   0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in Australia, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     2    3   0   132  70   54    8   44.00   0   2   0
Pakistan in Australia, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    6   2   128  56*  26   23*  32.00   0   1   0
Trans-Tasman Trophy (Aus/NZ) in New Zealand, 2004/05 [Series]
Aus     3    5   0   158  61   38   35   31.60   0   1   0

Quote:
> - and so far Symonds has signally
>failed to do it again.

Yes.

Quote:

>He *has* to make it big in the second innings IMHO. If not, today
>was the last straw  - a big series against RSA, a 0-0 tie going
>into the second game, Australia cruising at 200/3 looking to
>bring the spinners into action with a big total. Ponting fell
>after a ton, you cant really blame him. Symond's first-baller
>IMHO changed the course of hte entire match and maybe
>the series

Wow, a batsman got out early.
It happens.

He got a handy (not unplayable) ball first up that moved away and took
the edge of a defensive shot.

It happens.

Worse dismissals were Hodge and Gilchrist who both got out playing bad
shots (as did Ponting but he had made 117 first)

Quote:
> - suddenly you have a slightly out of sorts keeper
>needing to do a repair job rather than a demolition job, he
>fails too, and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. The
>middle-order hasnt done it again

what do you mean "again"?
The current middle order started in test 3 against the Windies
since then Hodge has made 18, 23, 41, 203*, 7
Hussey 133*, 30*, 23, 58, 112* (at lunch)

Symonds 9, 13, 25, 0

so it's absolute rubbish to say that the middle order hasn't done it
again.
The middle order has done it, largely due to Hussey with Hodge
stepping forwards once.

Symonds hasn't delivered yet  but the middle order has.

Quote:
> - Hodge clearly deserves to
>be retained, so does Hussey so far.

You have them in the wrong order. Hodge has 1 50 and 1 100 so far,
Hussey had (before today) 2 100s and 1 50

Quote:
> The only one who
>consistently has been part of the middle-order collapses (and
>contributed to them) has been Symonds.

Gilchrist?
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng     5    9   1   181  49*  30   27   22.62   0   0   0
ICC Super Series Test Match (Aus/ICC) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
Aus     1    2   0    95  94    1    -   47.50   0   1   0
The Frank Worrell Trophy (Aus/WI) in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
Aus     3    3   0    52  44    6    2   17.33   0   0   0
South Africa in Australia, 2005/06 [Series]
 -     1    2   0    50  44    6    -   25.00   0   0   0

Quote:
>With his ability,
>with his talent, in a winning team they could have maybe given
>him more rope and hope that he figured it out eventually and
>repay the faith. But in the present circumstances with the
>team fighting and struggling to maintain its winning ways,

that's a fairly interesting way of putting it.
We lost the Ashes in a hard fought series

Since the Ashes Aus has won 4 tests and drawn 1due to a great innings
by Rudolph.

Quote:
>the rope for someone who hasnt performed in tests ever to
>date (no matter his talent level) must surely be running out -
>and probably *has* run out if he doesnt come thru in I2.

You might want to recall how he came in.
He was called up to replace Watson who got injured.

Watson as an allrounder is seen as a large part of the future for the
Australian team and should be right for the next series after this
one.

So as I see it the selectors can either decide that they want to get
Watson back in immediately in which case any replacement for Symonds
would get 1 test or they can decide that the plan for an allrounder to
let us play 2 spinners almost all the time isn't needed which leaves
big questions about the composition of the attack.

Quote:

>If he fails in I2, Id probably bring Clake back for him myself.

Why Clarke?
Exactly what has Clarke done to suggest that he's got his head worked
out yet?

Quote:
>And his test career would probably be over - his ability and
>talent is still there, and if he goes back and does amazingly
>well at fc level.. then maybe, down the road, if Australia is
>a winning team again and good enough to be able to afford
>to risk a spot for a 3-5 game run... *then* he may get one
>last and final chance. But it would be pretty unlikely IMHO.

--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001

Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws