Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Mike Holman » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:20:37


http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

"Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
its 23 matches."

Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

Losing your first five wickets for the addition of one run is certainly
impressive, and I look forward to encore performances throughout the
summer. The Australian fielding was also an example to us all, or at
least Bangladesh.

We've won the odd recent match against Australia, but they've usually
been pretty hard-fought affairs. To watch Australia being steamrollered
and made to look pathetic was immense fun.

At this point in previous Ashes series, we'd normally have been hearing
how this shows that yet again we have a total mismatch on our hands.
Wouldn't it be fun if that were true again this time?

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by SPB » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:55:23

On 13 Jun 2005 13:20:37 -0700, "Mike Holmans"

Quote:

>http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

>"Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
>Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
>Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
>Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
>its 23 matches."

>Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

>Losing your first five wickets for the addition of one run is certainly
>impressive, and I look forward to encore performances throughout the
>summer. The Australian fielding was also an example to us all, or at
>least Bangladesh.

>We've won the odd recent match against Australia, but they've usually
>been pretty hard-fought affairs. To watch Australia being steamrollered
>and made to look pathetic was immense fun.

>At this point in previous Ashes series, we'd normally have been hearing
>how this shows that yet again we have a total mismatch on our hands.
>Wouldn't it be fun if that were true again this time?

>Cheers,

>Mike

It's good to gloat, but I will resist as I remember when we won the
Texaco series and still went on to lose the ashes.

I have this unfortunate feeling this give the Aussies a "wake-up"
call...  it would be a shame if the only thing we won was the 20-20...
it would make gloating at this point pathetic...

IF we win the one day series, then I will feel confident in gloating.

SPB

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Chan.Fons.. » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:02:03

Quote:

> http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> its 23 matches."

> Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> Losing your first five wickets for the addition of one run is certainly
> impressive, and I look forward to encore performances throughout the
> summer. The Australian fielding was also an example to us all, or at
> least Bangladesh.

> We've won the odd recent match against Australia, but they've usually
> been pretty hard-fought affairs. To watch Australia being steamrollered
> and made to look pathetic was immense fun.

> At this point in previous Ashes series, we'd normally have been hearing
> how this shows that yet again we have a total mismatch on our hands.
> Wouldn't it be fun if that were true again this time?

Yes, I suppose if it were a 5/5 match it would have been even more
one-sided.

Surprising to see you gloating about a "meaningless" NotODO, or
NODO(tm) and then talking about Ashes in the same breath. What is this
world coming to?

I go back to my recent prediction about the 2007 WC. England, with
Flintoff and Pietersen in the middle order, stand as good a chance as
any. However I don't know if Vaughan can hold his place for that long.
How old is Collingwood? Will he still be around then? Jones looks to be
a cracker too.

Wonder if this English NODO lineup (wk, 6 batsmen, Flintoff and 3
bowlers) will translate to ODOs. Why not?

- Chan [how about Half-Day International, or HADO]

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> Cheers,

> Mike


 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by FRAN » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:04:19

Quote:

> http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> its 23 matches."

> Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> Losing your first five wickets for the addition of one run is certainly
> impressive, and I look forward to encore performances throughout the
> summer. The Australian fielding was also an example to us all, or at
> least Bangladesh.

> We've won the odd recent match against Australia, but they've usually
> been pretty hard-fought affairs. To watch Australia being steamrollered
> and made to look pathetic was immense fun.

> At this point in previous Ashes series, we'd normally have been hearing
> how this shows that yet again we have a total mismatch on our hands.
> Wouldn't it be fun if that were true again this time?

> Cheers,

> Mike

As this was on at 2AM on a working morning, I didn't get to see any of
it, but I've said from the start that I think England are a show at
winning the Ashes back. I hope it's close and goes down to the last
session of the last test. If it does, I'll be happy with the result,
assuming the weather hasn't intervened to tip the balance too much one
way or the other.

As to this game, good luck to England ...

Fran

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by yeska » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:06:47

Quote:

> http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> its 23 matches."

> Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.
 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Chris Westo » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:30:29


Quote:

> > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > its 23 matches."

> > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

Yeah, they weren't ready.  It doesn't count unless you're ready.

--
Chris Weston

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Mike Holman » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:36:02

Quote:


> > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > its 23 matches."

> > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

If the 20/20 is discounted, they only have 22 fixtures, so the quoted
prediction has already fallen by the wayside.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by kenhig.. » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:43:52

Quote:


> > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > its 23 matches."

> > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

Any match that Australia loses will somehow not count.

Higgs

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by FRAN » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:03:48

Quote:



> > > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > > its 23 matches."

> > > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> > 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

> Any match that Australia loses will somehow not count.

> Higgs

Such records, by definition, say quite as much about the opponents
conceding them and the contexts in which the games were played as the
quality of the touring side. Anything can be a "record" if it's
sufficiently narrowly defined. Whether it's meaningful in all the
contexts which sports people take seriously is quite another thing.

Cricket in England in 1948 was not at its high point, for any number of
reasons, the war prominently amongst them, and if the current FC scene
in England was not more competitive than then I'd be very surprised.

And as we all know being "invincible" in cricket is not at all the same
as winning all your games. Trying to manufacture wins in circumstances
where there is a very substantial risk of loss provides entertainment
and challenge way beyond a stale draw. A side that plays very well and
pushes for the win in every case where there is a palpable chance, but
is defeated in two or three close contests where they could easily have
drawn is not inferior to a side that takes the easy option and turns
the match into batting practice and finishes a tour undefeated,
particularly if the more aggressive side faced better credentialled and
performed opposition in the games they lost.

I think England will be more competitive this tour than at any time in
the last 12 years. I do expect (and hope) that England will win *at
least* one test and go close in another. Accordingly, if Australia wins
by more than one test they will have done reasonably well.

Fran

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Phil » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:05:15

A bit like the tour in 1981 that didn't happen according to some?  ;-)

Phil.

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by kenhig.. » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:16:36

Quote:




> > > > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > > > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > > > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > > > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > > > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > > > its 23 matches."

> > > > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> > > 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

> > Any match that Australia loses will somehow not count.

> > Higgs

> Such records, by definition, say quite as much about the opponents
> conceding them and the contexts in which the games were played as the
> quality of the touring side. Anything can be a "record" if it's
> sufficiently narrowly defined. Whether it's meaningful in all the
> contexts which sports people take seriously is quite another thing.

> Cricket in England in 1948 was not at its high point, for any number of
> reasons, the war prominently amongst them, and if the current FC scene
> in England was not more competitive than then I'd be very surprised.

Oh I broadly agree.

The 1948 team was obviously very well credentialed, but the truth is
that the opposition was not as potent as it might have been, and as you
say, the war played a big part in that. It's interesting to contrast
the approaches to the games of Bradman and Miller. One having fought in
the war, one having spent it in the (relative) safety and comfort of
Australia.

But, yes, you can make anything a 'record' if you want to.

But as Mike pointed out, Brown has specified the 23 games of the tour,
which obviously had to include this 20/20 game, joke/bizarre
incarnation that those matches may be.

Going by previous experience, had any English pundit been silly enough
to make some sort of prediction about the outcome of results that were
all too quickly proven incorrect, the gloating on this group would be
deafening.

As you may have noticed, there aren't too many posters around today.
Expect them to turn out in droves as soon as Australian starts winning
(which wont be too far away, IMO), and belittling any comments that
English posters have made. Mike will attract a fair amount of stick for
his comments here (and some might say he deserves it)

Higgs

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> And as we all know being "invincible" in cricket is not at all the same
> as winning all your games. Trying to manufacture wins in circumstances
> where there is a very substantial risk of loss provides entertainment
> and challenge way beyond a stale draw. A side that plays very well and
> pushes for the win in every case where there is a palpable chance, but
> is defeated in two or three close contests where they could easily have
> drawn is not inferior to a side that takes the easy option and turns
> the match into batting practice and finishes a tour undefeated,
> particularly if the more aggressive side faced better credentialled and
> performed opposition in the games they lost.

> I think England will be more competitive this tour than at any time in
> the last 12 years. I do expect (and hope) that England will win *at
> least* one test and go close in another. Accordingly, if Australia wins
> by more than one test they will have done reasonably well.

> Fran

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by FRAN » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:36:20

Quote:





> > > > > http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> > > > > "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> > > > > Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> > > > > Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> > > > > Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> > > > > its 23 matches."

> > > > > Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

> > > > 20/20 doesn't count.Aus still has a chance for that record.

> > > Any match that Australia loses will somehow not count.

> > > Higgs

> > Such records, by definition, say quite as much about the opponents
> > conceding them and the contexts in which the games were played as the
> > quality of the touring side. Anything can be a "record" if it's
> > sufficiently narrowly defined. Whether it's meaningful in all the
> > contexts which sports people take seriously is quite another thing.

> > Cricket in England in 1948 was not at its high point, for any number of
> > reasons, the war prominently amongst them, and if the current FC scene
> > in England was not more competitive than then I'd be very surprised.

> Oh I broadly agree.

> The 1948 team was obviously very well credentialed, but the truth is
> that the opposition was not as potent as it might have been, and as you
> say, the war played a big part in that. It's interesting to contrast
> the approaches to the games of Bradman and Miller. One having fought in
> the war, one having spent it in the (relative) safety and comfort of
> Australia.

> But, yes, you can make anything a 'record' if you want to.

> But as Mike pointed out, Brown has specified the 23 games of the tour,
> which obviously had to include this 20/20 game, joke/bizarre
> incarnation that those matches may be.

> Going by previous experience, had any English pundit been silly enough
> to make some sort of prediction about the outcome of results that were
> all too quickly proven incorrect, the gloating on this group would be
> deafening.

> As you may have noticed, there aren't too many posters around today.
> Expect them to turn out in droves as soon as Australian starts winning
> (which wont be too far away, IMO), and belittling any comments that
> English posters have made. Mike will attract a fair amount of stick for
> his comments here (and some might say he deserves it)

> Higgs

Well I promise that if I see good play by the English then I'll be
every bit as chuffed by that as if someone from the Aussies does
something remarkable. I'm a cricket fan by choice and an Aussie as the
result of an accident of birth.

Fran

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> > And as we all know being "invincible" in cricket is not at all the same
> > as winning all your games. Trying to manufacture wins in circumstances
> > where there is a very substantial risk of loss provides entertainment
> > and challenge way beyond a stale draw. A side that plays very well and
> > pushes for the win in every case where there is a palpable chance, but
> > is defeated in two or three close contests where they could easily have
> > drawn is not inferior to a side that takes the easy option and turns
> > the match into batting practice and finishes a tour undefeated,
> > particularly if the more aggressive side faced better credentialled and
> > performed opposition in the games they lost.

> > I think England will be more competitive this tour than at any time in
> > the last 12 years. I do expect (and hope) that England will win *at
> > least* one test and go close in another. Accordingly, if Australia wins
> > by more than one test they will have done reasonably well.

> > Fran

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by alve » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:11:01

Quote:

> http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

> "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
> Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
> Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
> Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
> its 23 matches."

> Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

Well being pedantic Holmans, WAB didn't actually predict that they'd win all 23,
he said that they had the talent to do so.
snip excessive dreaming & some unattractive (and uncalled for) gloating.

I'm not happy.
Didn't know it was being televised and have therefore missed seeing Bung being
bounced *and* watching BB fail again. Any other highlights? Clang drop a few?

And wandering freely around...After hearing about this result I sloped off for a
look at the Aus schedule. Conclusion: I'd not like to be a selector. There's one
fc game before T1, one before T2 and then some odd 2 day things(1) against some
combined counties before T4 & T5. Clang knows how a fringe player is going to
get into the XI. It'd be a brave selector who dropped anyone when the
alternative may have had one fc game in months.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_IN_ENG_JUN-SEP...

alvey
(1) What are these things Mikey?

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Mike Holman » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:23:24

There's one

Quote:
> fc game before T1, one before T2 and then some odd 2 day things(1) against some
> combined counties before T4 & T5.
> alvey
> (1) What are these things Mikey?

Dunno. Presumably they are something which Buchanan thought would be
useful, rather like the fifty-a-side matches which Fletcher likes at
the beginning of a tour.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Invincibles expect Ponting's side to match Bradman's

Post by Mad Hamis » Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:37:59

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:11:01 +1000, alvey

Quote:


>> http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/210813.html

>> "Bill Brown, Australia's oldest former Test player, believes Ricky
>> Ponting's side can copy the unbeaten record of the 1948 Invincibles.
>> Brown played the last two of his 22 Tests on the tour led by Don
>> Bradman, and said the current team had the talent not to lose any of
>> its 23 matches."

>> Well, that prediction certainly stood up nicely, didn't it?

>Well being pedantic Holmans, WAB didn't actually predict that they'd win all 23,
>he said that they had the talent to do so.

>snip excessive dreaming & some unattractive (and uncalled for) gloating.

>I'm not happy.
>Didn't know it was being televised and have therefore missed seeing Bung being
>bounced *and* watching BB fail again. Any other highlights? Clang drop a few?

>And wandering freely around...After hearing about this result I sloped off for a
>look at the Aus schedule. Conclusion: I'd not like to be a selector. There's one
>fc game before T1, one before T2 and then some odd 2 day things(1) against some
>combined counties before T4 & T5. Clang knows how a fringe player is going to
>get into the XI. It'd be a brave selector who dropped anyone when the
>alternative may have had one fc game in months.

>http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_IN_ENG_JUN-SEP...

classic ticking up really.

the actual quote from Brown is
"From what I know of the Australian team, they have done all the hard
yards, have practised well and they have great ability. How they
acquit themselves remains to be seen.""

which isn't exactly what the summation suggests.

Neil Harvey could justify the summary
"With Steve Waugh's team and during the last ten years when England
have been down, they still weren't able to do it and I'm not sure
why," Harvey said. "They should do it this year I reckon. They are not
playing many games, let's face it."

although the non-quoted summary raises questions about the context he
said it in. 'Harvey said he was surprised no other squad had completed
the tour undefeated'