Sport Today

An interesting point has been raised.  Should cricketers today "walk" or
maintain their ground? Should a player be brought back if the captain thinks
he is not out (Vishy in the Jubilee test comes to mind) ?
Does the professionalization of the game mean that such acts are "taking
things a little too far" ?
In a broader sense, is a professional attitude at odds with sportsmanship?

Here is my perspective:
        As a fan, displays of sporting conduct gladdens the heart and
reinforces some gut feelings and values (which I will leave for a netter
with a better feel for words to fill in).  Even if such actions have a
negative impact on "my team's" fortunes, I will consider it well worth it.
I personally do not think my feelings on this issue are limited to cricket.
However, IME (in my experience) such displays are more common in cricket
(albeit becoming increasingly rare) than in other sports I watch/am interested
in.
        The question then is what should a professional player do? Is he
obligated to his "customers" - the fans, and his peers, the team - to not
engage in such acts?  Do any of the following variations -
        What goes around comes around
        Things will ultimately even out
        We have had our share of bad calls
        (and many more)
- have any validity to them?  If so, do they take precedence over other
factors (which I elaborate below) ?

The other factors:
Here I attempt to describe other factors that I think should go into helping
a player arrive at such a decision.  Any gains made on the playing field by
following the letter, rather than the spirit of the game, detracts from the
value of such gains and their resulting consequences.  Now, I am not bringing
up the m***ramifications of such actions, which should be clear.  What I am
trying to get at is that, in my opinion, there are valid grounds to engage in
sporting conduct, other than strictly moral.  The following statement is, in
my view, applicable to professional players:
All professionals should give their best on the field.
Now if you know that the ball snicked the bat (substitute other such situations
as you please) and you "walk", what you have just done is in keeping with
the above statement, which I shall refer to as the professional paradigm.
If you do not walk, you have cheated this paradigm, because you are pursuing
an avenue beyond what your best was capable of.  
The obvious argument against the above will delve into the interpretation of
best. Possibly, a valid point can be made that I am just rephrasing the m***
argument in so many more words.  To this I have the following to offer:
If somehow, an oracle could be found to adjudicate the game, the question of
sporting conduct does not arise.  The right decision will be made in every
case.  Under such circumstances, the "right" result is always achieved.  
Clearly then, only those attributes of players that contribute to performance
on the field will count.  Thus only the more competent professionals will
triumph.  
The argument can be made that as such an oracle does not exist, players should
use whatever means to gain the competitive edge.  My counter-arguments to
the above are the following points:
        1) Further advances in technology and 2) amendment of the rules (in
cricket, the third umpire; in tennis electronic lining of the court parameters
etc.) are bringing us closer to this ideal.  Please no arguments that the
tennis example is frought with problems - it is proffered as an illustration,
nothing more.

Discussions very welcome.

PS: I tried to avoid the m***dimension in my argument but a glance at the
above text shows that I have not been entirely successful :)  Maybe, these
issues are too intertwined to extricate successfully.  I hope I have gotten
the gist of my point across.  However, I am unable to find a suitably
convincing argument of the same, other than this stubborn voice in my head.
can already anticipate the wisecrack "Cuz there are none shithead!".
Oh well ...

Kartik

[snip]

I have been following this thread for a few articles now, so now
it's time to dive into the fray.

Personally, I think that cheating under the banner of "professionalism"
has gone a bit far.  It shouldn't have a place in cricket, and if
other sports feel it's ok, then that is to their detriment IMHO.  
The rash of sledging, over vigorous appealing, etc only serves to
make watching the game less appealing.  The negative effects can
also be seen in club cricket (I assume this is probably a worldwide
phenomenon), where the umpires are more easily pressured, prone to
mistakes, and often less sure of their authority.  This is not a trend
to be encouraged.  On the other hand, being the recipient of a sporting
gesture can make a game much more enjoyable to play.  I, for one,
will continue to walk when I know I'm out.

Cheers, Paul

It all depende on why you play.
If you play to win, you don't help the umpires in their decision, if
you play for fun, you walk off.

: An interesting point has been raised.  Should cricketers today "walk" or
: maintain their ground? Should a player be brought back if the captain thinks
: he is not out (Vishy in the Jubilee test comes to mind) ?
: Does the professionalization of the game mean that such acts are "taking
: things a little too far" ?
: In a broader sense, is a professional attitude at odds with sportsmanship?

: Here is my perspective:
:       As a fan, displays of sporting conduct gladdens the heart and
: reinforces some gut feelings and values (which I will leave for a netter
: with a better feel for words to fill in).  Even if such actions have a
: negative impact on "my team's" fortunes, I will consider it well worth it.
: I personally do not think my feelings on this issue are limited to cricket.
: However, IME (in my experience) such displays are more common in cricket
: (albeit becoming increasingly rare) than in other sports I watch/am interested
: in.
:       The question then is what should a professional player do? Is he
: obligated to his "customers" - the fans, and his peers, the team - to not
: engage in such acts?  Do any of the following variations -
:       What goes around comes around
:       Things will ultimately even out
:       We have had our share of bad calls
:       (and many more)
: - have any validity to them?  If so, do they take precedence over other
: factors (which I elaborate below) ?

: The other factors:
: Here I attempt to describe other factors that I think should go into helping
: a player arrive at such a decision.  Any gains made on the playing field by
: following the letter, rather than the spirit of the game, detracts from the
: value of such gains and their resulting consequences.  Now, I am not bringing
: up the m***ramifications of such actions, which should be clear.  What I am
: trying to get at is that, in my opinion, there are valid grounds to engage in
: sporting conduct, other than strictly moral.  The following statement is, in
: my view, applicable to professional players:
: All professionals should give their best on the field.
: Now if you know that the ball snicked the bat (substitute other such situations
: as you please) and you "walk", what you have just done is in keeping with
: the above statement, which I shall refer to as the professional paradigm.
: If you do not walk, you have cheated this paradigm, because you are pursuing
: an avenue beyond what your best was capable of.  
: The obvious argument against the above will delve into the interpretation of
: best. Possibly, a valid point can be made that I am just rephrasing the m***
: argument in so many more words.  To this I have the following to offer:
: If somehow, an oracle could be found to adjudicate the game, the question of
: sporting conduct does not arise.  The right decision will be made in every
: case.  Under such circumstances, the "right" result is always achieved.  
: Clearly then, only those attributes of players that contribute to performance
: on the field will count.  Thus only the more competent professionals will
: triumph.  
: The argument can be made that as such an oracle does not exist, players should
: use whatever means to gain the competitive edge.  My counter-arguments to
: the above are the following points:
:       1) Further advances in technology and 2) amendment of the rules (in
: cricket, the third umpire; in tennis electronic lining of the court parameters
: etc.) are bringing us closer to this ideal.  Please no arguments that the
: tennis example is frought with problems - it is proffered as an illustration,
: nothing more.

: Discussions very welcome.

: PS: I tried to avoid the m***dimension in my argument but a glance at the
: above text shows that I have not been entirely successful :)  Maybe, these
: issues are too intertwined to extricate successfully.  I hope I have gotten
: the gist of my point across.  However, I am unable to find a suitably
: convincing argument of the same, other than this stubborn voice in my head.
: can already anticipate the wisecrack "Cuz there are none shithead!".
: Oh well ...

: Kartik

--  
   Joost Helberg                                Rijnzathe 6

   Oracle Europe BV                             Product Line Development        
   Phone: +31 3406 94211                        Fax:   +31 3406 65609

It appears that quite a few subscribers to this group think it perfectly
OK to cheat in the name of "professionalism".  I find that utterly
deplorable.  Being of a competitive nature, I've always played every game
I've ever played to win; there's no point going out on the pitch/course/
whatever if you're prepared to lose, in my opinion.  But I have never
cheated, nor will I ever.  It goes totally against all the principles my
parents and teachers so painstakingly (and effectively, it seems) drummed
into me, and I simply could not bring myself to do it.  Much as I enjoy
winning, I would rather lose a game fairly, knowing that I gave the best
performance of which I am capable, than win it unfairly.  I expect some
will say that my refusal to win at all costs makes me a loser.  Why?
Rules are there for a purpose; they should not be deliberately flouted,
nor should there be any satisfaction in gaining an unfair advantage over
an opponent by having "got away with it" when you know you have been
guilty of an infringement.  If cheating is acceptable and expected
behaviour for professional "sportsmen", then all I can say is, thank God
I never became one.

End of today's lecture on sporting morality.  Thank you. :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

Amen.

Sportsmanship is INFINITELY preferable to "Professionalism".
I'm rememinded of an incident involving Derek Randall, when he had a HUGE
appeal against him for a leg-side catch in a test match. Unpire said not out.
Rags turned to the keeper and said "Did it carry?". The keeper said "Yes", to
which Randall said "Good enough for me" and walked.
--

Well said, David Wheeler; it really depends on what is at stake; whether
it's just the difference between a game lost or a game won, or is it a matter
of shame or glory to the mother/father-land? Will one be reviled
and rebuked or deified by local media and the country one represents?
What other "professional" carrots dangle in front of their noses? Brand
new cars? More money? Lots more money? When the stakes are that high
one would do anything to win.
RJB

Re the walking thing:

If the pro players have obligations to the sponsors, spectators, etc, it
is to make them enjoy the game.  Ways of doing this are many: winning,
heroism in defeat, elegance of play, etc.  IMHO there is little that
gladdens the heart more for supporters of either team than when a batsman
walks, a catcher admits that he put the ball down when his colleagues
appeal, a batsman being called back by a captain, etc.  It isn't a m***
thing, but just good to see that some people have the courage and heart
to see justice done.

If you ever see a football match where a player gets injured and his
team kick the ball out of play, you'll often see the opposition send the
throw-in back to the other side, to applause from the crowd.
Sportsmanship like this is rare in football, and is/was what made
cricket special.  

I don't object to sledging, but I do dislike excessive appealing as
it undermines the umpire, but the walking thing is vital to the position
of cricket as a game for mature minds.

And another thing: chanting.  Why do these people go to a test match to
moan "boring, boring Arsenal"?  This may be true, but what can the
cricketers do about it? Also, who are these people who have the time and
money to go from the Midlands of England to Taunton for the Nat-West
semi, only to drone "Warwickshire, la la la, Warwickshire, la la la."?
They should be strung up.  It's the only language these sort of people
understand.

Altogether now:

Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lund,
Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lur-und.
Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lund, Ing-er-lund,
Ing-er-lu-und, Ing-er-lund.

Continue ad nauseam.

Bill.

Can you bring glory upon your homeland by cheating in its name?  Quite
the opposite, I would have thought.  Your other point is valid, though;
it is a sad fact that many top-class players in modern sport are quite
prepared to compromise their conscience and integrity in pursuit of cheap
notoriety and material rewards, and the bigger the stakes, the more
unscrupulous they will become.  What a wonderful example to set for the
children who will become tomorrow's players, eh?  No wonder these
"professional" attitudes are creeping into all levels of cricket; how can
we expect people not to cheat when they observe their heroes doing it as
a matter of routine?

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

I should have added that the malaise is not confined to cricket; it appears
to have become fairly widespread throughout professional sport in general
over the last 10 or 20 years in particular.  I find it horrifying that so
many people no longer regard honesty as a virtue but, instead, as one of the
characteristics of a loser, and particularly so when this attitude seems
to be overflowing into other aspects of everyday life.  What a legacy to
leave our children.

This isn't really about cricket any more, is it?  I think I'd better
reserve further comment for soc.culture.british.

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

While reading this thread I can't help but remember one incident(the
only one I have seen), where in Courtney Walsh showed what a true
sportsman he is. I think this happened in World Cup 87 in a match
between Pakistan and West Indies. When Windies are in dire straits and
Qadir is doing some hard-hitting Walsh got a golden chance to run-out
the batsman at the bowler's end(can't remember who it was) as the
batsman ran e***dly even befor Walsh bowled and was yards away from
the crease. Walsh just folded his hands across his chest and smiled.
After that Pakistan never gave a chance and threw out the Windies out
of the Cup. That really is a rare display of true Sportsman Spirit
considering the fact that the World Cup is at stake.

Vishy

That is probably an extreme case of sportsmanship.  When the non-striker tries  
to unfairly take advantage by leaving his crease early, Walsh should have run  
him out.  I am probably going to get flamed for this but I feel really strongly  
that when the other team is trying to be unfair it is ok to use legal means of  
getting a batsman out (like handling the ball or "Mankading" as it was in this  
case) even though they are considered unsportsmanlike.  I agree with Wheeler on  
his statement about sledging.  Cricket is much more fun when it is played in  
the right spirit.
--
Reply to:

                 saleem jaffer

....

 YES!!!

  That is definitely the greatest example of sportsmanship I have ever seen!

  Does anyone remember how Viv (at Mid On) looked up at the sky and then at
Walsh? He really meant something. But since this incident became a frequently
referred example in the future... and Walsh an epitome of a sportsman (much
more than what Walsh could have achieved for himself by winning the cup, I
believe) maybe Viv did not have much of a chance to talk to Walsh about it!
After all, it was the nearest chance for Viv to win the cup as the skipper!

  And, remember the six and the 2 fours, the couple  etc.. that Quadir cracked
that spectacular over to be in the semis? I will never forget that over of
Courtney Walsh in that respect either!

DJ
--
       DHRUBA J. CHATTERJEE (Grad.Student) USC School of Pharmacy.

                         Fax : (213) 342-1473    
->"Never Change, never Adapt, never Improve... and die Alone, Cold and ***"<-

        I am going to get flamed for this, but anyway, Viv
        should have dropped Walsh for losing this match.
        Not only for his bad bowling, but for this incredibly
        stupid act (IMO). I agrred when Kapil did the "Mankad"
        in South Africa.

        The pricipal as the Los Angles Raider (in NFL) would
        say is : JUST WIN, BABY !

---------------------------------------------------------
N.RAM                              
GM - WISCONSIN WORMS (IFFL)

        W O R M S  A L L  T H E  W A Y ! !
---------------------------------------------------------

  There is big difference between what Kapil did and what you would
  have liked Walsh to do.
  Kapil had earlier warned Kirsten thrice. I'm sure Walsh given an
  another opportunity against the same batsman would have run him
  out too.

  - gautham -