More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Tim Cotsfor » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>Happily, I was at the Perth WACA ground for the three days that were the
>5th test between Australia and the West Indies.

>The television coverage, and to a greater extent the (Australian) radio
>coverage failed to shed proper light on two glaring examples of sledging
>that (I think) altered the course of that game.

>During the early part of the West Indian first innings on day 2, Glen
>McGrath in his 10th over hindered the West Indian batsmen taking a run
>and made some comments that caused the batsmen to remonstrate with the
>umpire (in this case Peter Willey.)

>The end result was Australian captain Mark Taylor dragging Glen McGrath
>(taking him from the attack) and making him (McGrath) field at fine leg
>for 4 consecutive overs (ie. he had to trot from fine leg to fine leg at
>the end of each over.)

>More sledging occurred, later in the same innings (prior to the 108th
>over of the innings, and Paul Reiffel's 25th over) whilst Ambrose and
>Walsh were batting (with Lara as a runner for Walsh.)

>This time the umpires (initiated by Darryl Hair) called a conference of
>the two team captains in the centre of the wicket.

>The various media coverage failed to pick up that afterwards Taylor made
>a direct route (bee line) for Shane Warne fielding in the slips and
>spent a good two minutes in consultation with him.

>Warne did not get the fine leg to fine leg treatment.

>During Australia's paltry 2nd innings effort Curtly Ambrose bowled a
>terrific and courageous spell, up until his 10th over. This is the one
>where he bowled 15 deliveries including 9 no balls.

>I propose that this was done purposely for two reasons ... 1) Warne
>can't play fast short pitched bowling, and 2) retribution for the
>misdeeds of Warne earlier whilst the WI were batting.

>There is an underlying current present in these comments.

>Warne has been fast tracked into the captaincy of his state (the
>Victorian) team. I feel that he (Warne not Ian Healy) is being groomed
>to replace Mark Taylor as the Australian captain.

>This (in my humble opinion) would be disastrous. And I wonder how
>complicit the Australian news/sports media is in this affair?

>If Warne was the one who had instigated the bout of sledging seen
>recently in the Aus vs WI 5th test at the WACA, how much more will we
>expect in his (presumed imminent) reign as captain?

>Australian's generally expect greater things from our representatives.

>Afterwards, I got out onto the pitch at the close of the West Indian 2nd
>innings and viewed a furrow full of plate cracking that was the WACA's
>sorry excuse for a pitch. Even in it's poor condition the Australians
>cannot excuse themselves from such a poor show.

>David Bebb


>Smail:      PO Box 320, Northbridge, Western Australia 6865

>"Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law." - Aleister Crowley
>(1875-1947)

Thanks for some first hand oberservations David.
I must say I'm in general agreement with your comments re the sledging
and the apparent fast tracking of Warne.
As I mentioned in another post, much has been made of Lara's REACTION to
the sledging and his fitness therefore to be skipper is being questioned.
One is suprised at the lack of comment over Warne's involvement in all
this. I don't know if he was the instigator, but he was involved (and
many people who've followed the series might have seen his lips moving at
other occasions-OK no definite proof but there is more than a suspicion
in my mind). If Warne is to be skipper, this is something I would like to
see him drop. *** theorists might argue that he is being
considered for the job BECAUSE he has these attributes!
Likewise, I was a little suprised at the way he became skipper of Vic. in
such a short time. I'm not doubting that he can read a game well, but no
more so than a lot of other players, and does he have qualities of
leadership (at present I'd say no)? How can he prove himself as a
skipper? That's the old chestnut of not knowing until he's given a go.
Mind you, the skippering of Vic. could be seen as a bit odd, how many
games has he/will he play for them? At present, he's done nothing
extraordinary that would mark him as a future Aus. skipper to my mind. Is
this just a media thing or has the ACB got a hand in this?

Cheers

Tim

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by David Beb » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Happily, I was at the Perth WACA ground for the three days that were the
5th test between Australia and the West Indies.

The television coverage, and to a greater extent the (Australian) radio
coverage failed to shed proper light on two glaring examples of sledging
that (I think) altered the course of that game.

During the early part of the West Indian first innings on day 2, Glen
McGrath in his 10th over hindered the West Indian batsmen taking a run
and made some comments that caused the batsmen to remonstrate with the
umpire (in this case Peter Willey.)

The end result was Australian captain Mark Taylor dragging Glen McGrath
(taking him from the attack) and making him (McGrath) field at fine leg
for 4 consecutive overs (ie. he had to trot from fine leg to fine leg at
the end of each over.)

More sledging occurred, later in the same innings (prior to the 108th
over of the innings, and Paul Reiffel's 25th over) whilst Ambrose and
Walsh were batting (with Lara as a runner for Walsh.)

This time the umpires (initiated by Darryl Hair) called a conference of
the two team captains in the centre of the wicket.

The various media coverage failed to pick up that afterwards Taylor made
a direct route (bee line) for Shane Warne fielding in the slips and
spent a good two minutes in consultation with him.

Warne did not get the fine leg to fine leg treatment.

During Australia's paltry 2nd innings effort Curtly Ambrose bowled a
terrific and courageous spell, up until his 10th over. This is the one
where he bowled 15 deliveries including 9 no balls.

I propose that this was done purposely for two reasons ... 1) Warne
can't play fast short pitched bowling, and 2) retribution for the
misdeeds of Warne earlier whilst the WI were batting.

There is an underlying current present in these comments.

Warne has been fast tracked into the captaincy of his state (the
Victorian) team. I feel that he (Warne not Ian Healy) is being groomed
to replace Mark Taylor as the Australian captain.

This (in my humble opinion) would be disastrous. And I wonder how
complicit the Australian news/sports media is in this affair?

If Warne was the one who had instigated the bout of sledging seen
recently in the Aus vs WI 5th test at the WACA, how much more will we
expect in his (presumed imminent) reign as captain?

Australian's generally expect greater things from our representatives.

Afterwards, I got out onto the pitch at the close of the West Indian 2nd
innings and viewed a furrow full of plate cracking that was the WACA's
sorry excuse for a pitch. Even in it's poor condition the Australians
cannot excuse themselves from such a poor show.

David Bebb


Smail:  PO Box 320, Northbridge, Western Australia 6865

"Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law." - Aleister Crowley
(1875-1947)

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Joshua Saunder » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Happily, I was at the Perth WACA ground for the three days that were the
>5th test between Australia and the West Indies.

>The television coverage, and to a greater extent the (Australian) radio
>coverage failed to shed proper light on two glaring examples of sledging
>that (I think) altered the course of that game.

>During the early part of the West Indian first innings on day 2, Glen
>McGrath in his 10th over hindered the West Indian batsmen taking a run
>and made some comments that caused the batsmen to remonstrate with the
>umpire (in this case Peter Willey.)

>The end result was Australian captain Mark Taylor dragging Glen McGrath
>(taking him from the attack) and making him (McGrath) field at fine leg
>for 4 consecutive overs (ie. he had to trot from fine leg to fine leg at
>the end of each over.)

Yep, fair enough.

Quote:

>More sledging occurred, later in the same innings (prior to the 108th
>over of the innings, and Paul Reiffel's 25th over) whilst Ambrose and
>Walsh were batting (with Lara as a runner for Walsh.)

>This time the umpires (initiated by Darryl Hair) called a conference of
>the two team captains in the centre of the wicket.

No way. Certainly not. Lara, running for Walsh, ran into Hayden, because
he wasn't looking. His foot seemed to get spiked by Hayden's boot. There
was virtually no exchange of words here. Actually I'd say none. The mouths
didn't move.

Quote:
>The various media coverage failed to pick up that afterwards Taylor made
>a direct route (bee line) for Shane Warne fielding in the slips and
>spent a good two minutes in consultation with him.

Warne played no part in it at all. He was a fair way from the action,
unless of course he was yelling out all this time. Presumably at Lara,
with whom he is of course, friends. I didn't see it THAT way at all.

Quote:
>Warne did not get the fine leg to fine leg treatment.

Warne didn't do anything at that time.

Quote:
>During Australia's paltry 2nd innings effort Curtly Ambrose bowled a
>terrific and courageous spell, up until his 10th over. This is the one
>where he bowled 15 deliveries including 9 no balls.

>I propose that this was done purposely for two reasons ... 1) Warne
>can't play fast short pitched bowling, and 2) retribution for the
>misdeeds of Warne earlier whilst the WI were batting.

Oh gosh, a deliberate spate of no balls so they can get that pathetic wimp
Warne, who as we all know "can't play fast short pitched bowling". Where
did you get that one from?

Quote:
>There is an underlying current present in these comments.

>Warne has been fast tracked into the captaincy of his state (the
>Victorian) team. I feel that he (Warne not Ian Healy) is being groomed
>to replace Mark Taylor as the Australian captain.

He's the only player in his 20s who can hold his place in the Aus team. I
agree he is being groomed for Test captaincy, but then Langer or Ponting
or even Law, could easily pass Warne. If they could keep their place in
the side.

Quote:
>This (in my humble opinion) would be disastrous. And I wonder how
>complicit the Australian news/sports media is in this affair?

Complicit? The only "complicity" in the Vics giving Warne the captaincy,
could only come from the ACB, and that only if they have a policy of
"encouraging" the States to give the captaincy to good young players. As
seemed likely a couple of years ago when Martyn and Law were getting the
captaincy. Now with Moody, Boon, Matthews, this seems most unlikely.

I'm interested in your theory on how Tv and newspapers can make Warne the
captain. PLease explain.

Quote:
>If Warne was the one who had instigated the bout of sledging seen
>recently in the Aus vs WI 5th test at the WACA, how much more will we
>expect in his (presumed imminent) reign as captain?

Oh crap. McGrath was the worst sledger, and apparently SWaugh always gives
out the complimentary character reference. Warne sledged Hooper, during
one over, and a stop was soon put to that. Hooper of course, dealt with it
the RIGHT way, unlike Lara (who wasn't sledged by anyone, actually).

Quote:
>Australian's generally expect greater things from our representatives.

Oh yes, why McDonald and Gregory never said "boo" to a batsman. No 19th
century scribe EVER complained about the byplay and chit-chat on the
field. Cricket fans EXPECT there to be some sledging on the field.
Simplybecause it has been around forever. Doesn't mean fans have to like
it, but...

BTW, I'm a little bemused by the presence of "Australians" and
"representatives" in the above sentence. I'd have said Australians, on the
whole, were much less fussed by sledging than most. Thus it's accepted in
our culture, and our cricketers do it more than others.

And in what way do you feel the cricketers represent "us"? I mean are you
talking about ppl you voted for and approve of, or merely worried they
will give us a bad name. A cricket team is a cricket team. It
theoretically contains the XI best cricketers in a nation. It's not the XI
of Mr nice guys, or the XI of reasonable people, or for any other reason
except that they can play cricket. By no means do they represent "us".
They represent Australia, I suppose, in whatever abstract sense you can
represent a nation, but mostly, above all, they represent themselves. Poor
behaviour reflects on them.

Quote:
>Afterwards, I got out onto the pitch at the close of the West Indian 2nd
>innings and viewed a furrow full of plate cracking that was the WACA's
>sorry excuse for a pitch. Even in it's poor condition the Australians
>cannot excuse themselves from such a poor show.

Good to hear. Imagine if they'd performed so badly on a GOOD pitch?

Josh

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Don Mile » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00

"Sledging has been around for ever" - I think not! at least not in 1st
class cricket in the UK.

The occasional comment perhaps - but as a "gamsemanship" technique,
which is what it has frequently become, I don't believe it. Indeed the
attitude of players like Cork (to pick a UK example) is one of the
reasons I watch less 1st class cricket than I used to. Sledging is
simply unnecessary to make a point. On two occasions (reasonably)
recently I can remember seeing the ball beat the edge of a full ***ed
drive. The batsmen looked up at the bowler and a large grin spread over
their face. The bowler stopped at the end of the run and replied in
kind. Everyone knew who had beaten who ...

In the first occurrence Gangooly was the batsman - I forget the bowler.
The other occurred in the England/New Zealand Test at Guildford. It is
not the least of the reasons I now watch less men's and more women's
cricket.

Don
--
--------------------------------------------

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Aidan Philip Heerdeg » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>Oh crap. McGrath was the worst sledger, and apparently SWaugh
>always gives out the complimentary character reference. Warne
>sledged Hooper, during one over, and a stop was soon put to
>that. Hooper of course, dealt with it the RIGHT way, unlike
>Lara (who wasn't sledged by anyone, actually).

I find it curious that there is a 'right' way to deal with sedging.

I mean, really .. the idea is ludicrous. Taylor was espousing the same
opinion to the media, that Lara was wrong to complain to the media. Why
exactly?

If the Aus players aren't prepared to stand up and say "yeah, I sledge,
so what!?" then why do it? Personally I couldn't care less, but to get
all defensive about it when someone complains about it seems a little
silly to me.

Cheers

Aidan

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Bob Dube » Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>"Sledging has been around for ever" - I think not! at least not in 1st
>class cricket in the UK.

Maybe not... I can't think of an example that would illustrate one or
the other. I do recall the umpire Cecil Pepper answering an appeal
from an Oz spinner with "Not out, you fat Australian bastard", but
that was in a league game (in England).

I do recall an Australian batsman being called a "flukey Bastard" by a
bowler. The batsman's name was Bradman and so we can assume, I think,
that sledging has been around since WW2 at least.

Bob Dubery

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Ravi Ar » Tue, 11 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Rick Eyre opined:

Quote:
>Ah yes, sledging by the umpires... I thought Shakoor Rana was the only
ump
>who did that ...

Did S. Rana really indulge in sledging ? I know that the man's neutrality
(or competence) is minimal, but sledging ? You'r sure that this is not
apocryphal stuff that gets passed on ?

ravi (who thinks hair is incompetent but Bansal S. K. is sans-pareil)
aron.

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Graeme Vincen » Tue, 11 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> The end result was Australian captain Mark Taylor dragging Glen McGrath
> (taking him from the attack) and making him (McGrath) field at fine leg
> for 4 consecutive overs (ie. he had to trot from fine leg to fine leg at
> the end of each over.)

My opinion of Mark Taylor has just been given a boost!

- Graeme Vincent

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by an.. » Wed, 12 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>[...]
>Maybe not... I can't think of an example that would illustrate one or
>the other. I do recall the umpire Cecil Pepper answering an appeal
>from an Oz spinner with "Not out, you fat Australian bastard", but
>that was in a league game (in England).

so where's the insult above? ;-\ well this scan into rsc isnt bad for once..
that name triggered dead cells: from WCMs of the past 10yrs (that's what i'm
limited to :) cecil pepper must have been fun to be around. he calmed
roy gilchrist (who was beaning batsmen in english league cricket about
once every session) from the non-striker's end. in a kind of charity
match, gilchrist bowled couple beamers at the striker, and pepper threatened
to retaliate. when reminded he couldn't bowl fast, pepper said that from
4yds away, he could still hurt gilchrist, and "the umpire can only call
a no-ball"
another time pepper's travelling team was facing gilchrist, and on getting
couple beamers the opening bat 'charged the mound.' gilchrist won that
bout when he thonked the opener w/ a stump! ian chappell, "then only 19,
had to be pushed out" to bat next, his "face white as a sheet."

ron, what do you think, lala? would you call just a no-ball? and since
Law 42.x covering beamers is a recent amendment, would you call gilchrist
under 42.1?
and where's the cronk man? if pepper can doit, so can Cronk! its all rod
marsh's fault, oz's best offspinner is in exile.. even if warne's got
bevan now, i think hair needs a little help?

bueno
anant
once every session) very nicely.

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Ron Knig » Wed, 12 Feb 1997 04:00:00


|... cecil pepper must have been fun to be around. he calmed
|roy gilchrist (who was beaning batsmen in english league cricket about
|once every session) from the non-striker's end. in a kind of charity
|match, gilchrist bowled couple beamers at the striker, and pepper threatened
|to retaliate. when reminded he couldn't bowl fast, pepper said that from
|4yds away, he could still hurt gilchrist, and "the umpire can only call
|a no-ball" [...]
|
|ron, what do you think, lala? would you call just a no-ball? and since
|Law 42.x covering beamers is a recent amendment, would you call gilchrist
|under 42.1?

Before Law 42.9 was amended in 1993 there was a Law 42.9 dealing with
beamers (or "Fast, High Full Pitches", if you prefer).  The principal
changes, other than general re-wording and the inclusion of what was
formerly a note in the new Law, are two:  the lowering of the boundary
line from the shoulders to the waist, and the removal of any
necessity for the Umpires to determine the "deliberateness" of the
beamer.  Since the beamer you postulate from 4 yards away would be
both clearly deliberate and aimed at the head, there would be no
difference in the powers of the Umpires under the unamended old
Law and under its present amended form.

At the very least, they would call "No ball", not for overstepping
the line as required by the No Ball Law, but for bowling a beamer
as they are required to call in Law 42.9.  Then they would caution
the Bowler that a further repetition would result in a final warning
and a second repetition would result in the Captain's being asked
to remove him.  That is at the very least.

In the case of a deliberate beamer from 4 yards away it is hard to
imagine that there would not be some further action taken in the
form of a report after the match and discipline against the Bowler
involved.

Of course the obvious thing to note is that all this still gives
the Bowler three throws (and he might as well throw it, too) from
four yards away, so some Umpires might invoke Law 43 and take
further action.  The 42 written Laws do not really contemplate
anything else, though.  Of course a very stern talking-to in the
middle of the pitch could give fair warning that there are not
going to be a second and third beamer, and a good Umpire would be
able to make that quite plain enough.

Take it easy,
--

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill  
I can't speak for UNC-CH, and UNC-CH can't speak for me.
It's better for both of us.

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Tansen Varghe » Wed, 12 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>Ah yes, sledging by the umpires... I thought Shakoor Rana was the only ump
>who did that ...

>--


Of course, the Aussie umpires don't have to resort to that, as
they can hide under the banner of just being incompetent.

Tanny

 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by Sid Boyc » Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> >[...]
> >Maybe not... I can't think of an example that would illustrate one or
> >the other. I do recall the umpire Cecil Pepper answering an appeal
> >from an Oz spinner with "Not out, you fat Australian bastard", but
> >that was in a league game (in England).

> so where's the insult above? ;-\ well this scan into rsc isnt bad for once..
> that name triggered dead cells: from WCMs of the past 10yrs (that's what i'm
> limited to :) cecil pepper must have been fun to be around. he calmed
> roy gilchrist (who was beaning batsmen in english league cricket about
> once every session) from the non-striker's end. in a kind of charity
> match, gilchrist bowled couple beamers at the striker, and pepper threatened
> to retaliate. when reminded he couldn't bowl fast, pepper said that from
> 4yds away, he could still hurt gilchrist, and "the umpire can only call
> a no-ball"
> another time pepper's travelling team was facing gilchrist, and on getting
> couple beamers the opening bat 'charged the mound.' gilchrist won that
> bout when he thonked the opener w/ a stump! ian chappell, "then only 19,
> had to be pushed out" to bat next, his "face white as a sheet."

> ron, what do you think, lala? would you call just a no-ball? and since
> Law 42.x covering beamers is a recent amendment, would you call gilchrist
> under 42.1?
> and where's the cronk man? if pepper can doit, so can Cronk! its all rod
> marsh's fault, oz's best offspinner is in exile.. even if warne's got
> bevan now, i think hair needs a little help?

> bueno
> anant
> once every session) very nicely.

        Gilchrist was a nutter, that's why the West Indies sacked him. The last
I heard of him was a newspaper story that he had branded his wife with a
hot iron. Most of the West Indian players thought he was totally
uncouth.
        Once in Barbados at net practice, he was bowling bouncers at the great
late Collie Smith and being hooked (he must have liked smith), next
Sobers came in, face one screaming ball and went straight back to the
pavillion. He was also quoted as saying that if he had a son who felt he
was man enough to put on pads and stand at the other end, he'd knock him
down.
        I didn't know the Pakistanis were such good limbo dancers till I saw a
picture of a ball flying pas Hanif Mohammed's throat in Trinidad, I
think that was Roy's answer to Hanif's 337 n.o, and he never hung around
when Gilchrist was about after that.
        Think he hated batsmen and given half a chance, he'd have put 3/4 of
the West Indian team in hospital permanently.
Regards
--

                   -----------------------------------
Any opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent
 the opinions or policies of Amdahl Corporation.
 
 
 

More to sledging than meets the eye (or ear)

Post by ccn.. » Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>[..headers deleted]

ron, not sure if this one goes thru; i'm trying my hand at wintrump...

Quote:
>Before Law 42.9 was amended in 1993 there was a Law 42.9 dealing with
>beamers (or "Fast, High Full Pitches", if you prefer).

actually i was aware of that (now that you mention it ;)

Quote:
>Since the beamer you postulate from 4 yards away would be

uhhh ron.. this guy pepper threatened, didn't postulate. i have to admit
i like his style... a favourite wish is for gavaskar/gaekwad/mohinder/etal
to have KO'd holding in 1976.. wonder what the umpas were doing in THAT
game?

Quote:
>At the very least, they would call "No ball",

the bouncer (sub)law(s) (various amendments) let the umpa judge a bouncer
based on a batsman's ability? now how will the batsman's ability to play
a beamer be judged? you mention warning and discipline after 2nd &3rd
beamers: one should be enough, ron! *no* umpa should accept "the ball
slipped" excuse.
and on a tangent, do you remember latenite clips of john kruk facing some
wild pitches from randy johnson in baseball's allstars few yrs back?

Quote:
>In the case of a deliberate beamer from 4 yards away it is hard to
>imagine that there would not be some further action taken in the
>form of a report after the match and discipline against the Bowler
>involved.

and i forgot to ask: which (sub)laws cover
(a) Out, KO'd w/ a stump, or would that be definitely Retired Hurt/DNB ?
(b) Out, Timed Out due to face white as a sheet

bueno
anant