Kennington Oval Musings

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by driz » Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:03:53


[1] Quoting from this article:
http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/418890.html
(a) "Atherton, writing in The Times, said the "call must be made" to
produce a pitch that will assist England in their pursuit victory,
while Hussain noted "England would want an absolute dustbowl that
turns from day one if they want a result."
(b) In the same article, Paul Sheldon said "Before a Test we always
have a good chat with the ECB, and their pitch inspector has a look at
the wicket. This has been a pitch that favours the bat for the first
few days and takes spin later. "

[2] In this article (http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/story/
419904.html), Ponting says reverse-swing will play a key role.

[3] In this article (http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/story/
419991.html) the Aussies seem to have called Saqlain to do spin-
consulting for Hauritz, which may mean that they are serious of
playing Hauritz in T5.

[4] But looking at the recent test history at The Oval,
(a) Ashes 2005: Warne 75 overs 250 odd runs for 12 wickets. No other
spinner took any wicket in 30+ overs.
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/engine/match/218383.html
(b) Eng vs Pak 2006: Spinners (Panesar, Kaneria, Hafeez) bowled 73
overs, 3 wickets for 237
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/engine/match/225258.html
(c) Eng vs Ind, 2007: Panesar, Kumble, SRT, KP, VVS together had 162
overs, 584 runs 9 wkts
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/engine/match/258470.html
(d) Eng vs SA 2008: Panesar and Harris took 7 wkts for 131 runs in 56
overs (as opposed to the seamers taking 27 wkts for 860 odd runs in
260 odd overs)
http://www.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/engine/match/296912.html

[5] The weather forecast for London next week is a bit negative:
<http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/
UKXX0085?
par=cricinfo&site=www.espncricinfo.com&promo=0&cm_ven=cricinfo&cm_cat=grounds&cm_pla=ci...>

Dustbowl? reverse swing? Track taking spin? Or Pace? Please mislead us
and keep us on the edge.

None of the recent results from Tests show a clear advantage to
spinners on The Oval track(s), or any inclination from the respective
captains to go with a stronger spin attack, or bowl more overs from
spinners. Even if there is no rain, considering the overcast
conditions, a full pace attack would be more effective than the
Aussies going with a half-baked spinner. North & Clarke together can
easily make up for the absense of Hauritz. As for England .. they can
say "bye bye" to Ashes (if it rains), and the media can make some
money (falsly) sensationalizing Flintoff as the Botham of our era.

Oh,.. and here are a couple of other County games played at The Oval
recently:
http://www.cricinfo.com/countycricket2009/engine/match/383014.html
http://www.cricinfo.com/countycricket2009/engine/match/383021.html

 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by David » Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:07:22

Quote:

> [1] Quoting from this article:
> http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/418890.html
> (a) "Atherton, writing in The Times, said the "call must be made" to
> produce a pitch that will assist England in their pursuit victory,
> while Hussain noted "England would want an absolute dustbowl that
> turns from day one if they want a result."
> (b) In the same article, Paul Sheldon said "Before a Test we always
> have a good chat with the ECB, and their pitch inspector has a look at
> the wicket. This has been a pitch that favours the bat for the first
> few days and takes spin later. "

Any word on how the pitch is looking? A flat pitch like those in recent county
games is no good for England. They need a result pitch and to hope the result
goes their way. If it looks dry Aus should play Hauritz as insurance.

 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by Bob Duber » Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:18:44


Quote:
> [1] Quoting from this article:http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/418890.html
> (a) "Atherton, writing in The Times, said the "call must be made" to
> produce a pitch that will assist England in their pursuit victory,
> while Hussain noted "England would want an absolute dustbowl that
> turns from day one if they want a result."

These kind of tactics can work, but only if your bowling attack has
the composition to take advantage of the situation and the
opposition's does not. You have to have a suit in which you are long
and the opposition is short.

This has been tried on occasion in SA. Especially a few years ago when
India were touring, were thought to not deal well with fast bowling
and SA had that in depth. It's still not a straightforward situation
though. Ali Bacher called a groundsman and said he wanted a bouncy
greentop at St George's Park for a Test. The groundsman replied
"better move the match to Centurion Park then".

Clive Rice used to like pretty venomous pitches at The Wanderers. It
wasn't good for his team's batting averages, but he had strength in
pace bowling and regarded the greentop as a way of tilting conditions
in his team's favour. Later on Kepler Wessels was trying to have
pitches made to order at St George's Park because he first had an
attack with lots of spin, and then a strong seam attack. So for a
while it was dustbowls and then he wanted seaming pitches (but see
above, this was harder to accomplish).

The more bone-headed way that this has been done in SA is to prepare a
pitch at the Wanderers that will assist your pace attack without
taking into account that
a) the opposition have McGrath, Gillespie and Lee (plus a genius spin
bowler who will make good use of the bounce)
b) the opposition might win the toss

So the question must be, it seems to me, is there a set of conditions
that can be created at The Oval that will benefit England without
equally benefiting Australia?

 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by Yuk Tan » Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:16:39



m:

Quote:

> So the question must be, it seems to me, is there a set of
> conditions that can be created at The Oval that will benefit
> England without equally benefiting Australia?

A pitch that will result in a certain win for whichever side wins the
toss will be favourable to England. England need a win, and England
don't have the firepower to take 20 wickets in normal circumstances.
Therefore a 50-50 chance is better than anything else England can
expect. It's as I said after The Oval 1997, the way to beat Australia
is to prepare minefields and hope luck goes England's way.

--
Cheers, ymt.

 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by Bob Duber » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:44:27


Quote:
> A pitch that will result in a certain win for whichever side wins the
> toss will be favourable to England. England need a win, and England
> don't have the firepower to take 20 wickets in normal circumstances.
> Therefore a 50-50 chance is better than anything else England can
> expect. It's as I said after The Oval 1997, the way to beat Australia
> is to prepare minefields and hope luck goes England's way.

I suppose so with the series as it is. Australia can afford to draw
more than England can.
 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by SultanOfSwin » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:56:06


Quote:

> > A pitch that will result in a certain win for whichever side wins the
> > toss will be favourable to England. England need a win, and England
> > don't have the firepower to take 20 wickets in normal circumstances.
> > Therefore a 50-50 chance is better than anything else England can
> > expect. It's as I said after The Oval 1997, the way to beat Australia
> > is to prepare minefields and hope luck goes England's way.

> I suppose so with the series as it is. Australia can afford to draw
> more than England can.

   And therein lies the advantage for Australia. As usual, the
Australians
   will approach this game looking for a win, and I'm sure that they
will
   play that way, at least for the first 3 days. If things don't
exactly go
   their way and a couple of sessions on day 4 go in England's favour,
   one can expect Australia to change tactics towards the end of Day
   4/Start of D5. England have no such luxury and have to press for a
   win regardless of the circumstances. Also, the weather may play
   a crucial role in the outcome of this Test match.
 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:04:09


Quote:


> m:

>> So the question must be, it seems to me, is there a set of
>> conditions that can be created at The Oval that will benefit
>> England without equally benefiting Australia?

> A pitch that will result in a certain win for whichever side wins the
> toss will be favourable to England. England need a win, and England
> don't have the firepower to take 20 wickets in normal circumstances.
> Therefore a 50-50 chance is better than anything else England can
> expect. It's as I said after The Oval 1997, the way to beat Australia
> is to prepare minefields and hope luck goes England's way.

Point taken, but the major difference from 1997 is that Australia played
then like they didn't care.  Hardly likely to happen this time with the
series on the line.

Andrew

 
 
 

Kennington Oval Musings

Post by Bob Duber » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:18:52


Quote:


> > > A pitch that will result in a certain win for whichever side wins the
> > > toss will be favourable to England. England need a win, and England
> > > don't have the firepower to take 20 wickets in normal circumstances.
> > > Therefore a 50-50 chance is better than anything else England can
> > > expect. It's as I said after The Oval 1997, the way to beat Australia
> > > is to prepare minefields and hope luck goes England's way.

> > I suppose so with the series as it is. Australia can afford to draw
> > more than England can.

> ? ?And therein lies the advantage for Australia. As usual, the
> Australians
> ? ?will approach this game looking for a win, and I'm sure that they
> will
> ? ?play that way, at least for the first 3 days. If things don't
> exactly go
> ? ?their way and a couple of sessions on day 4 go in England's favour,
> ? ?one can expect Australia to change tactics towards the end of Day
> ? ?4/Start of D5.

I'm not sure it's quite that simple: Ponting will be keen to win a
series in England, so there is some motivation on the Australian side
for a win. However in terms of the Ashes England have to win them
back. So whilst Ponting will want the win, a draw will suit Australia
better than it suits England.

OTOH this might turn into a situation where England have nothing to
lose.