Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by asi.. » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00


Hi,

As an Indian, I was disappointed and dismayed by the dismissals of
Tendulkar. Having said that, however, I cannot blame Umpire Harper.

In the first innings, Harper decided that SRT was out according to the
information available to *him* (visual, sound). We saw about 4-5
replays from Channel 9 (ESPN in India) and could only reckon that it
*may* have missed the bat from 1 camera angle (midwicket). Tony Grieg's
comments during that period was quite ridiculous and inflammatory. He
went something like; "He's out, looks like he's
out....woooooooowww..let's look at that particular angle again...there
seems to be daylight there!"

During the second innings, Harper again had to judge based on available
information (line, bounce, height, pace). He thought for a while and
gave it out.

It is quite conclusive that Harper followed the letter and spirit of
the laws.  They were not blatantly incorrect decisions. At best they
can be debated either way - after watching innumerable replays from
various angles.

It is very difficult to judge catches like Tendulkar's. We in the
subcontinent have to bear the brunt of criticism against our umpires
when such decisions look incorrect when viewed on TV.

Don't blame the umpires. Most of them are doing their best. If
anything, one should blame the ICC for not bringing in a technological
revolution in cricket. Even here, it is a very grey area. We've seen
that tv cameras do not always give a 100% perfect result for stumpings,
run outs. Leave alone LBW's and edges.

Even if for arguments sake, we assume that SRT got a raw deal, let's be
gracious enough to admit that we were outplayed in most of the 5 days
of the match and Aus deserved this victory.

I hope the Indian team does well in the next two tests, as they often
do :-). They're quite talented. They have to get it right in the
*mental toughness* department. Apart from Gandhi and Laxman, most of
them have decent technique. Even Laxman can surely improve. I pity
Gandhi. Apart from NZ, he has played first class teams on Indian
wickets and has rarely been tested against pace, swing, guile and
bounce. India has won about 2 test series overseas (iirc) after 1971.
We've had 1 stable opener (Gavaskar) and many pretenders. Chauhan,
Shastri and Srikanth were reasonable without being world class. If
anything, the BCCI is to blame. Compare this with the ACB. They've had
Wood, Taylor, Slater, Blewett, Boon, McCosker, Turner, et al who've
often provided solid foundations for the quality players who followed.
It's the cricketing system, Stupid!

Good luck to India in the next test. Hell, it was not as bad as Durban
96:-)

Cheers
Arun

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Dave Procto » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Good heavens - a sensible post from an Indian (and I am NOT being racist
here).

Dave

Quote:

>Hi,

>As an Indian, I was disappointed and dismayed by the dismissals of
>Tendulkar. Having said that, however, I cannot blame Umpire Harper.

>In the first innings, Harper decided that SRT was out according to the
>information available to *him* (visual, sound). We saw about 4-5
>replays from Channel 9 (ESPN in India) and could only reckon that it
>*may* have missed the bat from 1 camera angle (midwicket). Tony Grieg's
>comments during that period was quite ridiculous and inflammatory. He
>went something like; "He's out, looks like he's
>out....woooooooowww..let's look at that particular angle again...there
>seems to be daylight there!"

>During the second innings, Harper again had to judge based on available
>information (line, bounce, height, pace). He thought for a while and
>gave it out.

>It is quite conclusive that Harper followed the letter and spirit of
>the laws.  They were not blatantly incorrect decisions. At best they
>can be debated either way - after watching innumerable replays from
>various angles.

>It is very difficult to judge catches like Tendulkar's. We in the
>subcontinent have to bear the brunt of criticism against our umpires
>when such decisions look incorrect when viewed on TV.

>Don't blame the umpires. Most of them are doing their best. If
>anything, one should blame the ICC for not bringing in a technological
>revolution in cricket. Even here, it is a very grey area. We've seen
>that tv cameras do not always give a 100% perfect result for stumpings,
>run outs. Leave alone LBW's and edges.

>Even if for arguments sake, we assume that SRT got a raw deal, let's be
>gracious enough to admit that we were outplayed in most of the 5 days
>of the match and Aus deserved this victory.

>I hope the Indian team does well in the next two tests, as they often
>do :-). They're quite talented. They have to get it right in the
>*mental toughness* department. Apart from Gandhi and Laxman, most of
>them have decent technique. Even Laxman can surely improve. I pity
>Gandhi. Apart from NZ, he has played first class teams on Indian
>wickets and has rarely been tested against pace, swing, guile and
>bounce. India has won about 2 test series overseas (iirc) after 1971.
>We've had 1 stable opener (Gavaskar) and many pretenders. Chauhan,
>Shastri and Srikanth were reasonable without being world class. If
>anything, the BCCI is to blame. Compare this with the ACB. They've had
>Wood, Taylor, Slater, Blewett, Boon, McCosker, Turner, et al who've
>often provided solid foundations for the quality players who followed.
>It's the cricketing system, Stupid!

>Good luck to India in the next test. Hell, it was not as bad as Durban
>96:-)

>Cheers
>Arun

>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.


 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Will Sutto » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Arun,
    Your one post more then balances out the hundreds of ABUSIVE
posts directed at Australia and the umpires.
    My view is that Tendulkar was hard done by in the 1st innings
but the 2nd innings was a correct decision..
    And overall I believe that the decisions went slightly Australia's
way.
    This is my last reply about the 1st Test as I believe that it all
as been said. Lets now concentrate on the 2nd Test match. And
I wont rule out India.........a few close calls go against Australia
and India can be well and truely in the drivers seat.

BTW......a good saying to remember is "that a good side makes
its own luck "

Will

Quote:

> Hi,

> As an Indian, I was disappointed and dismayed by the dismissals of
> Tendulkar. Having said that, however, I cannot blame Umpire Harper.

> In the first innings, Harper decided that SRT was out according to the
> information available to *him* (visual, sound). We saw about 4-5
> replays from Channel 9 (ESPN in India) and could only reckon that it
> *may* have missed the bat from 1 camera angle (midwicket). Tony Grieg's
> comments during that period was quite ridiculous and inflammatory. He
> went something like; "He's out, looks like he's
> out....woooooooowww..let's look at that particular angle again...there
> seems to be daylight there!"

> During the second innings, Harper again had to judge based on available
> information (line, bounce, height, pace). He thought for a while and
> gave it out.

> It is quite conclusive that Harper followed the letter and spirit of
> the laws.  They were not blatantly incorrect decisions. At best they
> can be debated either way - after watching innumerable replays from
> various angles.

> It is very difficult to judge catches like Tendulkar's. We in the
> subcontinent have to bear the brunt of criticism against our umpires
> when such decisions look incorrect when viewed on TV.

> Don't blame the umpires. Most of them are doing their best. If
> anything, one should blame the ICC for not bringing in a technological
> revolution in cricket. Even here, it is a very grey area. We've seen
> that tv cameras do not always give a 100% perfect result for stumpings,
> run outs. Leave alone LBW's and edges.

> Even if for arguments sake, we assume that SRT got a raw deal, let's be
> gracious enough to admit that we were outplayed in most of the 5 days
> of the match and Aus deserved this victory.

> I hope the Indian team does well in the next two tests, as they often
> do :-). They're quite talented. They have to get it right in the
> *mental toughness* department. Apart from Gandhi and Laxman, most of
> them have decent technique. Even Laxman can surely improve. I pity
> Gandhi. Apart from NZ, he has played first class teams on Indian
> wickets and has rarely been tested against pace, swing, guile and
> bounce. India has won about 2 test series overseas (iirc) after 1971.
> We've had 1 stable opener (Gavaskar) and many pretenders. Chauhan,
> Shastri and Srikanth were reasonable without being world class. If
> anything, the BCCI is to blame. Compare this with the ACB. They've had
> Wood, Taylor, Slater, Blewett, Boon, McCosker, Turner, et al who've
> often provided solid foundations for the quality players who followed.
> It's the cricketing system, Stupid!

> Good luck to India in the next test. Hell, it was not as bad as Durban
> 96:-)

> Cheers
> Arun

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.


 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Thei » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Yeah. Can't hardly blame Harper.

He is an honest man, and he is trying his best. What can he do when a
charismatic leader like Steve Waugh infects his team with that distinctive
Aussie thang: "White Line Fever". Once Harper crosses the white (boundary)
line, he is a different man, like any other member of the Aussie team.  
Infected with the fever, he will do whatever it takes to win. There are no
limits.

Outside the white line, Harper is a genuinely nice and honest guy, who is
only interested in doing the right thing. I am sure of that.

Raj

 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Rajesh Sharm » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Arun,
>    Your one post more then balances out the hundreds of ABUSIVE
>posts directed at Australia and the umpires.

My non-posts should be counted too :)
I didn't post anything against Australia, her umpires or even Pauline
Hanson.
 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Gecko Van Echoe » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Arun's original post did not show up. I'll respond to that here

Quote:

> Good heavens - a sensible post from an Indian (and I am NOT being racist
> here).

*yawn* Another condescending Aussie (Don't talk about your british
passport). Is this one notch below dispensing free advice in "My lesson
for the sub-continent"? .... and I am NOT being a racist here either.

Quote:

> Dave


> >Hi,

> >As an Indian, I was disappointed and dismayed by the dismissals of
> >Tendulkar. Having said that, however, I cannot blame Umpire Harper.

        IMO, SRT could feel aggrieved for having been denied an opportunity.
But, the more I think about Harper's decision, the more I think it was a
very courageous decision. Good to see SRT not sulking about it.

Quote:

> >In the first innings, Harper decided that SRT was out according to the
> >information available to *him* (visual, sound). We saw about 4-5
> >replays from Channel 9 (ESPN in India) and could only reckon that it
> >*may* have missed the bat from 1 camera angle (midwicket). Tony Grieg's
> >comments during that period was quite ridiculous and inflammatory. He
> >went something like; "He's out, looks like he's
> >out....woooooooowww..let's look at that particular angle again...there
> >seems to be daylight there!"

> >During the second innings, Harper again had to judge based on available
> >information (line, bounce, height, pace). He thought for a while and
> >gave it out.

> >It is quite conclusive that Harper followed the letter and spirit of
> >the laws.  They were not blatantly incorrect decisions. At best they
> >can be debated either way - after watching innumerable replays from
> >various angles.

> >It is very difficult to judge catches like Tendulkar's. We in the
> >subcontinent have to bear the brunt of criticism against our umpires
> >when such decisions look incorrect when viewed on TV.

> >Don't blame the umpires. Most of them are doing their best. If
> >anything, one should blame the ICC for not bringing in a technological
> >revolution in cricket. Even here, it is a very grey area. We've seen
> >that tv cameras do not always give a 100% perfect result for stumpings,
> >run outs. Leave alone LBW's and edges.

> >Even if for arguments sake, we assume that SRT got a raw deal, let's be
> >gracious enough to admit that we were outplayed in most of the 5 days
> >of the match and Aus deserved this victory.

        It is pikestaff stuff that Aussies deserve a victory. Even assuming a
penalty of 200 runs for all the umpiring errors, India ends up way short
of winning.

        But what the vociferous minority (if you remove some of the delusional
jingoists) & a silent majority I have spoken to believe is that India is
quite short of matching Aussies in ausland. They need every opportunity
they get & the contest will be one-sided if their best weapon is
blunted.

<snipped the rest of the stuff that I agree with>

Quote:
> >Good luck to India in the next test. Hell, it was not as bad as Durban
> >96:-)

        Yeah. It was just about as bad as Madras test loss to Pakistan.

Regards
gve [ Fresh of a bet of $10 for SRT 100 in Melbourne. Hell, I am winning
the other one "At least 2-0" for Australia :-)]

Quote:

> >Cheers
> >Arun

> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.

--
GO SKINS


 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by James Stewar » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Geez if I hadn't of seen the last test...I would be certain that Harper
somehow cost India victory. Lucky I saw the match.
Quote:

> Yeah. Can't hardly blame Harper.

> He is an honest man, and he is trying his best. What can he do when a
> charismatic leader like Steve Waugh infects his team with that distinctive
> Aussie thang: "White Line Fever". Once Harper crosses the white (boundary)
> line, he is a different man, like any other member of the Aussie team.
> Infected with the fever, he will do whatever it takes to win. There are no
> limits.

> Outside the white line, Harper is a genuinely nice and honest guy, who is
> only interested in doing the right thing. I am sure of that.

> Raj

 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Ian Galbrai » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

:Arun's original post did not show up. I'll respond to that here

:> Good heavens - a sensible post from an Indian (and I am NOT being racist
:> here).

:*yawn* Another condescending Aussie (Don't talk about your british
:passport). Is this one notch below dispensing free advice in "My lesson
:for the sub-continent"? .... and I am NOT being a racist here either.

What do you expect with the amount of ***on this newsgroup? Where were
you when we were being called baboons and racists?

 
 
 

Don't blame Harper (and other umpires)

Post by Gecko Van Echoe » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Quote:



> :Arun's original post did not show up. I'll respond to that here

> :> Good heavens - a sensible post from an Indian (and I am NOT being racist
> :> here).

> :*yawn* Another condescending Aussie (Don't talk about your british
> :passport). Is this one notch below dispensing free advice in "My lesson
> :for the sub-continent"? .... and I am NOT being a racist here either.

> What do you expect with the amount of ***on this newsgroup? Where were
> you when we were being called baboons and racists?

        Easy. I was doing the same thing you were doing when we were called
curry-munchers & blackies (ie) ignoring it. The poster you are referring
to has a known history of calls to nuke Australia, taunts of white
baboons etc. OTOH, the person I responded to is a qualified umpire. Who
would you argue with... baboon-type of fellow (or) Pigeon-type of fellow
(or) a qualified umpire? I'll close this digression.. unless you wanna
have the last word

        Respecting the spirit of the original post, let me just post my changes
for the tour game againt Tasmania Tigers (or Stingrays or whatever they
are)

        Gandhi has been totally sorted out. So, the choice is to move either
Laxman or Mongia up the order. If Laxman is moved up the order, there is
a vacancy in middle order. Neither Bharadwaj nor Kanitkar look like
completing the void.

        So, probably Mongia can be made to open. Tbat is right. Though, he has
an away average of only 18.xx, though it is only a stopgap measure that
I vociferously argued against & though he has had precious little
international experience (even FC) since WC, he has to be chosen because
he has a healthy average & a match-winning knock against Australia, he
can make way for one more specialist bowler in the form of Kumaran and
the middle order looks much more balanced [whew.. I really wanted to
post a long sentence. Aah that felt good]

        The only way to play Australia is to take them head on. So all the
potential match-winners (the big 3) should step up in hierarchy. So, my
final XI is

Ramesh
Mongia
Dravid
Tendulkar {GO SRT!!}
Ganguly {GO GINGAN}
Laxman
Agarkar
Srinath
Kumaran
Kumble
Prasad

This is the XI that should play Tasmania & probably the Melbourne test.
It is far more important that India get into winning ways than try out
the newbies.

Regards
gve
--
GO SKINS