7-66 on debut

7-66 on debut

Post by Mike Holman » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:19:23


Congratulations to Darren Sammy, whom large numbers of people didn't
think should have even been selected.

One could be patronising and point out that England were already well
ahead and weren't exactly intent on crease-occupation, but a spell of
6-31 is pretty impressive by almost any standards.

There's nothing very special about his bowling: it's just good line
and length at 75 mph, but he was getting it to wobble about a bit and
finding edges commensurately.

It rather reminded me of when Mark Butcher and Anthony McGrath ran
riot at Lord's. That was against Zimbabwe: they were trying to save an
innings defeat rather than pile on runs, but the overall effect was
the same. It was too dangerous not to pay this sort of bowling enough
respect.

In the first innings, he bowled economically but not really
threateningly, and I suspect that his future holds a lot more innings
like that than ones where he takes six or seven. All credit to him for
his bowling today, and it will no doubt give him a lot of confidence
as well as spreading a little joy around a dressing room short of
cheer, but it would be unfortunate if this seven-fer hung a huge
weight of expectation round his neck because he's not really the sort
of bowler who will do this at all often.

On a totally different tack, England have scored 313 including four
ducks once before: against South Africa at Christmas 1927. On that
occasion Percy Holmes was out for a duck, after which Sutcliffe (102)
and Ernest Tyldesley (122) put on 230, and then Hammond made 51
without any help from Bob Wyatt, Greville Stevens or Geoffrey Legge
but single-figure contributions from Ewart Astill, George Geary,
skipper Ronald Stanyforth and Ian Peebles. Extras made 25. The main
damage was done by a spinner called Louis Promnitz, who only played
one other Test.

Cheers,

Mike
--

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:06:11

Quote:

> Congratulations to Darren Sammy, whom large numbers of people didn't
> think should have even been selected.

What better way to respond than with large numbers of wickets?

Quote:
> One could be patronising and point out that England were already well
> ahead and weren't exactly intent on crease-occupation, but a spell of
> 6-31 is pretty impressive by almost any standards.

I can't think of any standards (of Test cricket, at least) at which
those numbers wouldn't be regarded as impressive -- ignoring, even, the
fact that it's his debut.

Quote:
> There's nothing very special about his bowling: it's just good line
> and length at 75 mph, but he was getting it to wobble about a bit and
> finding edges commensurately.

For what more could you ask from a bowler of his type?

Quote:
> It rather reminded me of when Mark Butcher and Anthony McGrath ran
> riot at Lord's.

Come now! Surely you can come up with a more generous analogy than
*that* for Sammy did yesterday!

Quote:
> That was against Zimbabwe

I reiterate my last statement.

Quote:
> they were trying to save an
> innings defeat rather than pile on runs, but the overall effect was
> the same. It was too dangerous not to pay this sort of bowling enough
> respect.

You've gotta love it when the honest medium-pacer comes through.

Quote:
> In the first innings, he bowled economically but not really
> threateningly, and I suspect that his future holds a lot more innings
> like that than ones where he takes six or seven.

Agreed. Happily, though, that easy-on-the-pocket bowling cubicle in the
West Indies attack is not really occupied at the moment -- although not
less so, of course, than that of a quality strike bowler, but I feel
that Edwards has enough would-be at the mo' to become something special
someday.

Quote:
> it would be unfortunate if this seven-fer hung a huge
> weight of expectation round his neck because he's not really the sort
> of bowler who will do this at all often.

Regrettably, it's only to be expected that this will come to be
considered the point of reference from which all of Sammy's subsequent
performances will be judged. It's only natural.

Quote:
> On a totally different tack, England have scored 313 including four
> ducks once before: against South Africa at Christmas 1927. On that
> occasion Percy Holmes was out for a duck, after which Sutcliffe (102)
> and Ernest Tyldesley (122) put on 230, and then Hammond made 51
> without any help from Bob Wyatt, Greville Stevens or Geoffrey Legge
> but single-figure contributions from Ewart Astill, George Geary,
> skipper Ronald Stanyforth and Ian Peebles.

It's attention-grabbing to spot Peebles's name there. I believe that
1927 was only his first season in first-class cricket.

Quote:
> Extras made 25. The main
> damage was done by a spinner called Louis Promnitz, who only played
> one other Test.

Thanks a lot, Mike, for that plunge into history -- always a pleasure
for a neurotic like me.
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by John Hal » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:27:24


Quote:

>It's attention-grabbing to spot Peebles's name there. I believe that
>1927 was only his first season in first-class cricket.

Yes, and according to CricketArchive he had played in only four
first-class matches that season, making his f-c debut in Gentlemen v
Players! there must be an interesting story behind that.
--
John Hall

     "I am not young enough to know everything."
                                                 Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:41:14

Quote:



>> It's attention-grabbing to spot Peebles's name there. I believe that
>> 1927 was only his first season in first-class cricket.

> Yes, and according to CricketArchive he had played in only four
> first-class matches that season, making his f-c debut in Gentlemen v
> Players! there must be an interesting story behind that.

Thankfully, my copy of ''Talking of Cricket'' is sitting right next to
the computer:

"My first cricket tour was to South Africa with the M.C.C. team of
1927/8. As I had shown pretty good form on the matting wickets at the
Faulkner school, it was thought I might be successful in South Africa,
where turf wickets had not then appeared. I had not then played County
cricket, and my selection was purely experimental, so my official
appointment was as secretary to the captain of the side, Captain, now
Lt.-Col. R. T. Stanyforth. It was a wonderful chance, and all the more
exciting as it was completely unexpected." - p. 63
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
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7-66 on debut

Post by Mike Holman » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:29:36


tapped the keyboard and brought forth:

Quote:

>> There's nothing very special about his bowling: it's just good line
>> and length at 75 mph, but he was getting it to wobble about a bit and
>> finding edges commensurately.

>For what more could you ask from a bowler of his type?

>> It rather reminded me of when Mark Butcher and Anthony McGrath ran
>> riot at Lord's.

>Come now! Surely you can come up with a more generous analogy than
>*that* for Sammy did yesterday!

I'm sure I could come up with a more "generous" comparison, but I
don't really understand the point of doing so.

<snip>

Quote:
>> it would be unfortunate if this seven-fer hung a huge
>> weight of expectation round his neck because he's not really the sort
>> of bowler who will do this at all often.

>Regrettably, it's only to be expected that this will come to be
>considered the point of reference from which all of Sammy's subsequent
>performances will be judged. It's only natural.

Ah, I see. That's the point of coming up with something more
"generous". We can use it to add to the lorryloads of unrealistic
expectation which will be heaped on Sammy so that he can more quickly
acquire the label of mediocrity who failed to live up to his early
promise. Very constructive, I'm sure. (Or, to placate certain cynics
from other climes, very Indian.)

I'm assuming that you took the comparison with Butcher and McGrath as
some kind of insult, although it was not meant as such. Mark Butcher
especially was a pretty good purveyor of medium-pace dibblies which
wobbled about a bit; although England usually had rather better
bowlers available, some of us thought he was a little underused. And
for quite some time last year McGrath had better bowling figures for
Yorkshire than Jason Gillespie, bowling on the same sort of principle.
And back in 2003, Zimbabwe had a half-decent side.

Sammy himself is billed as an "all-rounder". From what I saw
yesterday, the player he most resembles is Mark Ealham, who took 4-21
in the second innings on debut against India in 1996 but spent the
rest of his career getting 1-41 or 2-56. Since Ealham never did better
than that 4-21, the nearest equivalent to him running through a side
with a seven-fer that I could think of was the combined effort of
Butcher and McGrath. If I'd thought for longer, perhaps I would have
remembered Roger Binny, who once took 6-56 at Calcutta and had a 5-40
at Headingley and a couple of three-fers as well in his career of
about 30 Tests.

Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
done.

You perhaps begin to get my drift. I have no wish to disparage Sammy,
and particularly not his seven-fer, but let us get his achievement
into perspective before making silly comparisons with the great
bowling performances of all time and making Sammy out to be the next
saviour of West Indian bowling.

This is exactly what I was discussing the other day with Roshan in
terms of spotting talent and promise and how you can't do it from
scorecards. The scorecard-readers would no doubt have us believe that
Sammy's performance was as good as, say, Garth McKenzie's 7-66 to
skittle India at the MCG in 1967 and that we can therefore expect
Sammy to be as good a bowler as McKenzie. That seems unrealistic and
therefore unfair on Sammy.

Cheers,

Mike
--

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:27:39

Quote:


> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:


>>> There's nothing very special about his bowling: it's just good line
>>> and length at 75 mph, but he was getting it to wobble about a bit and
>>> finding edges commensurately.
>> For what more could you ask from a bowler of his type?

>>> It rather reminded me of when Mark Butcher and Anthony McGrath ran
>>> riot at Lord's.
>> Come now! Surely you can come up with a more generous analogy than
>> *that* for Sammy did yesterday!

> I'm sure I could come up with a more "generous" comparison, but I
> don't really understand the point of doing so.

The point of doing so would be to demonstrate that, as a bowler, Sammy
is really a touch superior to the likes of Butcher and McGrath.
Comparing a cricketer who has made it at Test level mainly for his
bowling to two modest dibbly-dobblers (who are, at best, part-timers)
isn't the most generous thing in the world, you know.

Quote:
>>> it would be unfortunate if this seven-fer hung a huge
>>> weight of expectation round his neck because he's not really the sort
>>> of bowler who will do this at all often.
>> Regrettably, it's only to be expected that this will come to be
>> considered the point of reference from which all of Sammy's subsequent
>> performances will be judged. It's only natural.

> Ah, I see. That's the point of coming up with something more
> "generous". We can use it to add to the lorryloads of unrealistic
> expectation which will be heaped on Sammy so that he can more quickly
> acquire the label of mediocrity who failed to live up to his early
> promise. Very constructive, I'm sure. (Or, to placate certain cynics
> from other climes, very Indian.)

Pulling no punches as ever, eh, Mike? You're mistaken, though: I was not
defending that "very Indian" practice; quite the reverse, in fact: I was
lamenting the almost inevitable course that it will take with Sammy.

Quote:
> I'm assuming that you took the comparison with Butcher and McGrath as
> some kind of insult

Not quite, but I'm convinced that you could have thought of a few better
comparisons than those two.

Quote:
> although it was not meant as such. Mark Butcher
> especially was a pretty good purveyor of medium-pace dibblies which
> wobbled about a bit

Indeed, but he was only ever a very good part-timer. Sammy, conversely,
is a front-liner (in the West Indies team, at least) -- and one, at
that, who has just taken seven wickets on debut. Yes, I agree -- we
shouldn't read too deeply into that --, but we oughn't just discard it
altogether either.

Quote:
> although England usually had rather better
> bowlers available, some of us thought he was a little underused. And
> for quite some time last year McGrath had better bowling figures for
> Yorkshire than Jason Gillespie

Crikey! I didn't know that! I'm not sure, though, whether that says any
more about McGrath than it does about Gillespie.

Quote:
> Sammy himself is billed as an "all-rounder"

...leaning more towards the bowling side, though, I reckon.

Quote:
> From what I saw
> yesterday, the player he most resembles is Mark Ealham, who took 4-21
> in the second innings on debut against India in 1996 but spent the
> rest of his career getting 1-41 or 2-56. Since Ealham never did better
> than that 4-21, the nearest equivalent to him running through a side
> with a seven-fer that I could think of was the combined effort of
> Butcher and McGrath.

I see. You can't deny, though, that it is a bit of a raw deal to offer
somebody after so wonderful a performance as this one.

Quote:
> If I'd thought for longer, perhaps I would have
> remembered Roger Binny, who once took 6-56 at Calcutta and had a 5-40
> at Headingley and a couple of three-fers as well in his career of
> about 30 Tests.

That I'd much prefer.

Quote:
> Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
> golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
> done.

And that.

Quote:
> You perhaps begin to get my drift.
> I have no wish to disparage Sammy,

...although, however unintentionally, you have (well, in my opinion, at
least).

Quote:
> and particularly not his seven-fer, but let us get his achievement
> into perspective before making silly comparisons with the great
> bowling performances of all time and making Sammy out to be the next
> saviour of West Indian bowling.

He's nothing special, but he's a decent enough bowler (by modern West
Indian standards, at least) to go on to have a half-decent career at
this level -- provided, of course, that he sticks to the basics (which,
really, are his limitations as well).

Quote:
> This is exactly what I was discussing the other day with Roshan in
> terms of spotting talent and promise and how you can't do it from
> scorecards. The scorecard-readers would no doubt have us believe that
> Sammy's performance was as good as, say, Garth McKenzie's 7-66 to
> skittle India at the MCG in 1967 and that we can therefore expect
> Sammy to be as good a bowler as McKenzie. That seems unrealistic and
> therefore unfair on Sammy.

Indeed -- but, then, so is comparing him to Butcher and McGrath! :-)
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Mike Holman » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:06:09


tapped the keyboard and brought forth:

Quote:

>> I'm assuming that you took the comparison with Butcher and McGrath as
>> some kind of insult

>Not quite, but I'm convinced that you could have thought of a few better
>comparisons than those two.

>> although it was not meant as such. Mark Butcher
>> especially was a pretty good purveyor of medium-pace dibblies which
>> wobbled about a bit

>Indeed, but he was only ever a very good part-timer. Sammy, conversely,
>is a front-liner (in the West Indies team, at least) -- and one, at
>that, who has just taken seven wickets on debut. Yes, I agree -- we
>shouldn't read too deeply into that --, but we oughn't just discard it
>altogether either.

Sammy was selected as the fifth pace bowler in the team, to add a bit
of variety along with some handy batting. He ends up batting at eight
because Bravo is certainly a proper batsman and Ramdin had just got a
hundred. Quite how that makes him the front-line bowler you are
alleging is a bit beyond me, I'm afraid.

Quote:
>> although England usually had rather better
>> bowlers available, some of us thought he was a little underused. And
>> for quite some time last year McGrath had better bowling figures for
>> Yorkshire than Jason Gillespie

>Crikey! I didn't know that! I'm not sure, though, whether that says any
>more about McGrath than it does about Gillespie.

It says a certain amount about Gillespie, but it also shows that
McGrath is a more than halfway decent bowler at first-class level.

Quote:

>> Sammy himself is billed as an "all-rounder"

>...leaning more towards the bowling side, though, I reckon.

>> From what I saw
>> yesterday, the player he most resembles is Mark Ealham, who took 4-21
>> in the second innings on debut against India in 1996 but spent the
>> rest of his career getting 1-41 or 2-56. Since Ealham never did better
>> than that 4-21, the nearest equivalent to him running through a side
>> with a seven-fer that I could think of was the combined effort of
>> Butcher and McGrath.

>I see. You can't deny, though, that it is a bit of a raw deal to offer
>somebody after so wonderful a performance as this one.

I can easily deny it if I like. My view is rather coloured by having
been at Lord's on the relevant occasion and therefore having seen how
well those two bowled that day.

Quote:

>> If I'd thought for longer, perhaps I would have
>> remembered Roger Binny, who once took 6-56 at Calcutta and had a 5-40
>> at Headingley and a couple of three-fers as well in his career of
>> about 30 Tests.

>That I'd much prefer.

>> Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
>> golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
>> done.

>And that.

He averaged 38.36 with the ball in Tests, while Butcher averaged
36.07. Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
right on a couple of occasions.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>> You perhaps begin to get my drift.

>> I have no wish to disparage Sammy,

>...although, however unintentionally, you have (well, in my opinion, at
>least).

>> and particularly not his seven-fer, but let us get his achievement
>> into perspective before making silly comparisons with the great
>> bowling performances of all time and making Sammy out to be the next
>> saviour of West Indian bowling.

>He's nothing special, but he's a decent enough bowler (by modern West
>Indian standards, at least) to go on to have a half-decent career at
>this level -- provided, of course, that he sticks to the basics (which,
>really, are his limitations as well).

If you think that he's good enough to be picked as a bowler in Test
cricket for WI, you must believe that they really have no-one at all.
If Sammy can get regular 30s and 40s with the bat, then he can get
picked in the faute de mieux way that Flintioakes do get picked, but
it's fantasy to think that he can make it on bowling alone.

Cheers,

Mike
--

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:36:54

Quote:


> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:


>>> I'm assuming that you took the comparison with Butcher and McGrath as
>>> some kind of insult
>> Not quite, but I'm convinced that you could have thought of a few better
>> comparisons than those two.

>>> although it was not meant as such. Mark Butcher
>>> especially was a pretty good purveyor of medium-pace dibblies which
>>> wobbled about a bit
>> Indeed, but he was only ever a very good part-timer. Sammy, conversely,
>> is a front-liner (in the West Indies team, at least) -- and one, at
>> that, who has just taken seven wickets on debut. Yes, I agree -- we
>> shouldn't read too deeply into that --, but we oughn't just discard it
>> altogether either.

> Sammy was selected as the fifth pace bowler in the team, to add a bit
> of variety along with some handy batting. He ends up batting at eight
> because Bravo is certainly a proper batsman and Ramdin had just got a
> hundred. Quite how that makes him the front-line bowler you are
> alleging is a bit beyond me, I'm afraid.

Our respective understandings of the term "front-liner" denotes quite
patently disagree -- or, which is more likely, mine is entirely wrong:
not being one for grey areas, I myself consider a front-liner to be,
well, not a part-timer, and, if he happens to come on fifth change, then
so be it. I'm reasonably convinced that I've seen Kallis come on fourth
or fifth change for South Africa before, and I certainly regard him as a
front-liner. When you look at the West Indies team, Sammy's is
definitely one of the names that you'll jot down when listing the likely
bowling line-up.

Quote:
>>> although England usually had rather better
>>> bowlers available, some of us thought he was a little underused. And
>>> for quite some time last year McGrath had better bowling figures for
>>> Yorkshire than Jason Gillespie
>> Crikey! I didn't know that! I'm not sure, though, whether that says any
>> more about McGrath than it does about Gillespie.

> It says a certain amount about Gillespie, but it also shows that
> McGrath is a more than halfway decent bowler at first-class level.

Erm ... I prefer "decent part-timer", but you've seen a lot more of
McGrath than I have.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>>> Sammy himself is billed as an "all-rounder"
>> ...leaning more towards the bowling side, though, I reckon.

>>> From what I saw
>>> yesterday, the player he most resembles is Mark Ealham, who took 4-21
>>> in the second innings on debut against India in 1996 but spent the
>>> rest of his career getting 1-41 or 2-56. Since Ealham never did better
>>> than that 4-21, the nearest equivalent to him running through a side
>>> with a seven-fer that I could think of was the combined effort of
>>> Butcher and McGrath.
>> I see. You can't deny, though, that it is a bit of a raw deal to offer
>> somebody after so wonderful a performance as this one.

> I can easily deny it if I like. My view is rather coloured by having
> been at Lord's on the relevant occasion and therefore having seen how
> well those two bowled that day.

I can't take that away from you. (Well, I can easily take it away from
you if I like, but...)

Quote:
>>> If I'd thought for longer, perhaps I would have
>>> remembered Roger Binny, who once took 6-56 at Calcutta and had a 5-40
>>> at Headingley and a couple of three-fers as well in his career of
>>> about 30 Tests.
>> That I'd much prefer.

>>> Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
>>> golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
>>> done.
>> And that.

> He averaged 38.36 with the ball in Tests, while Butcher averaged
> 36.07. Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
> right on a couple of occasions.

Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
taken and strike-rate?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>>> You perhaps begin to get my drift.
>>> I have no wish to disparage Sammy,
>> ...although, however unintentionally, you have (well, in my opinion, at
>> least).

>>> and particularly not his seven-fer, but let us get his achievement
>>> into perspective before making silly comparisons with the great
>>> bowling performances of all time and making Sammy out to be the next
>>> saviour of West Indian bowling.
>> He's nothing special, but he's a decent enough bowler (by modern West
>> Indian standards, at least) to go on to have a half-decent career at
>> this level -- provided, of course, that he sticks to the basics (which,
>> really, are his limitations as well).

> If you think that he's good enough to be picked as a bowler in Test
> cricket for WI, you must believe that they really have no-one at all.

I didn't say that I felt that he was good enough to be picked just as a
bowler; I declared my belief that he's good enough with ball in hand to
go on to have a fairly good career in that department. Surely that's not
saying that he's good enough to be picked *only* as a bowler?

Quote:
> If Sammy can get regular 30s and 40s with the bat, then he can get
> picked in the faute de mieux way that Flintioakes do get picked, but
> it's fantasy to think that he can make it on bowling alone.

Indeed. I had no such fantasies.
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Mike Holman » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:08:05


tapped the keyboard and brought forth:

Quote:

>>>> Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
>>>> golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
>>>> done.
>>> And that.

>> He averaged 38.36 with the ball in Tests, while Butcher averaged
>> 36.07. Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
>> right on a couple of occasions.

>Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
>taken and strike-rate?

Mudassar's strike rate was about 90, Butcher's about 63. Mudassar
bowled a vast amount more and therefore took quite a few more wickets.
(Note the difference between "a vast amount more" and "quite a few
more".)

One reason he bowled a lot more was that he had a reputation as having
a golden arm and being likely to take wickets even though he wasn't.

Cheers,

Mike
--

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:55:18

Quote:


> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:


>>>>> Another reference might be Mudassar Nazar, another dibbly with a
>>>>> golden arm, although he tended to generate more swing than Sammy has
>>>>> done.
>>>> And that.
>>> He averaged 38.36 with the ball in Tests, while Butcher averaged
>>> 36.07. Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
>>> right on a couple of occasions.
>> Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
>> taken and strike-rate?

> Mudassar's strike rate was about 90, Butcher's about 63. Mudassar
> bowled a vast amount more and therefore took quite a few more wickets.

That settles that, then.

Quote:
> (Note the difference between "a vast amount more" and "quite a few
> more".)

I have.

Quote:
> One reason he bowled a lot more was that he had a reputation as having
> a golden arm and being likely to take wickets even though he wasn't.

Well, that's busted another myth in which I have long believed. Thanks,
Mike.
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Mike Holman » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:50:41


tapped the keyboard and brought forth:

Quote:



>>> Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
>>>> right on a couple of occasions.
>>> Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
>>> taken and strike-rate?

>> Mudassar's strike rate was about 90, Butcher's about 63. Mudassar
>> bowled a vast amount more and therefore took quite a few more wickets.
>> One reason he bowled a lot more was that he had a reputation as having
>> a golden arm and being likely to take wickets even though he wasn't.

>Well, that's busted another myth in which I have long believed. Thanks,
>Mike.

Which myth would that be: the one about Mudassar being a good bowler
or the one about Butcher being a poor one?

If it makes you any happier, I'd estimate that had Butcher been given
Mudassar's bowling load, he'd have ended up with similar sorts of
figures. Mudassar was used far too much for the quality of bowler that
he was: dibbly medium pacers shouldn't be bowling 10-over spells in
Test cricket unless they stumble on a bagful of wickets by accident.

Cheers,

Mike
--

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by vdeolali.. » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:00:28


Quote:

> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:




> >>> Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
> >>>> right on a couple of occasions.
> >>> Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
> >>> taken and strike-rate?

> >> Mudassar's strike rate was about 90, Butcher's about 63. Mudassar
> >> bowled a vast amount more and therefore took quite a few more wickets.
> >> One reason he bowled a lot more was that he had a reputation as having
> >> a golden arm and being likely to take wickets even though he wasn't.

> >Well, that's busted another myth in which I have long believed. Thanks,
> >Mike.

> Which myth would that be: the one about Mudassar being a good bowler
> or the one about Butcher being a poor one?

> If it makes you any happier, I'd estimate that had Butcher been given
> Mudassar's bowling load, he'd have ended up with similar sorts of
> figures. Mudassar was used far too much for the quality of bowler that
> he was: dibbly medium pacers shouldn't be bowling 10-over spells in
> Test cricket unless they stumble on a bagful of wickets by accident.

> Cheers,

> Mike
> --

I have not done any research on this so I may be wrong - I would also
investigate the possibility that Mudassar bowled more than he would
normally have in the period between Imran's shin stress fracture and
his return. During that time, Pakistan's bowling was still trying to
find its pivots. Azeem Hafeez was their main man during some of this
time (was MoM in the first test on our 1984 tour there and caused the
first innings collapse that led to us following on. Zaheer captained).
Sarfaraz was gone, Imran was injured, and they did not have consistent
spinners either. Jalaluddin opened the attack and a young Tauseef was
still learning the ropes. Mudassar might have been turned to by his
captain a little more under these circumstances.
 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:05:50

Quote:


> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:




>>>> Mudassar was actually not that good a bowler: he just got it
>>>>> right on a couple of occasions.
>>>> Very interesting stats, those. How do they compare in terms of wickets
>>>> taken and strike-rate?
>>> Mudassar's strike rate was about 90, Butcher's about 63. Mudassar
>>> bowled a vast amount more and therefore took quite a few more wickets.

>>> One reason he bowled a lot more was that he had a reputation as having
>>> a golden arm and being likely to take wickets even though he wasn't.
>> Well, that's busted another myth in which I have long believed. Thanks,
>> Mike.

> Which myth would that be: the one about Mudassar being a good bowler
> or the one about Butcher being a poor one?

Mudassar being a good bowler.

Quote:
> If it makes you any happier, I'd estimate that had Butcher been given
> Mudassar's bowling load, he'd have ended up with similar sorts of
> figures. Mudassar was used far too much for the quality of bowler that
> he was: dibbly medium pacers shouldn't be bowling 10-over spells in
> Test cricket unless they stumble on a bagful of wickets by accident.

Yes. That has made me a lot happier.
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by sdavmo » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:13:30

Congrats to Mr. Sammy. Regardless of where he goes from here, his
efforts yesterday should make folks on his home island very proud.
I don't know how much longer England might really have batted, but
his 7-66 got the adrenaline pumping and put a bit of proper "fight
back" attitude into his team. Which seems to have carried forward
into some much better, head down, play properly, test-match batting
on day 4, setting up the prospect of an interesting day 5.
--
Cheers,
SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
Systems Theory internet music project links:
official site <www.systemstheory.net>
soundclick <www.soundclick.com/systemstheory>
garageband <www.garageband.com/artist/systemstheory>
"Soundtracks For Imaginary Movies" CD released Dec 2004
"Codetalkers" CD coming very soon
NP: Porcupine Tree "In Absentia"
 
 
 

7-66 on debut

Post by Rodne » Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:19:31

Quote:

> Congrats to Mr. Sammy. Regardless of where he goes from here, his
> efforts yesterday should make folks on his home island very proud.
> I don't know how much longer England might really have batted, but
> his 7-66 got the adrenaline pumping and put a bit of proper "fight
> back" attitude into his team. Which seems to have carried forward
> into some much better, head down, play properly, test-match batting
> on day 4, setting up the prospect of an interesting day 5.

Indeed. Hopefully not much happens before I return from my exam!
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com