WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Rajeev Men » Wed, 21 Apr 1993 09:35:08


Somebody (Mcbean perhaps ?) mentioned a while back that the last
series WI lost at home was in 1973 against Aus. I didn't realize
that it was 20 years ago, but that was a good series. I am writing
this from memory, so I could be wrong on some of the facts.

That was Kanhai's first stint as captain, of a pretty poor WI side
if I recall and WI lost 2-0. Australia had Stackpole, Redpath,
The Chappells, Ross Edwards, Marsh, O'keefe, Walker ( I can't
remember if Lillee, McKenzie and or Mallett were on that tour )
Good batting side, not such a great bowling side.

WI had a pace bowler called Uton Dowe who was pretty bad, Gibbs
and Vanburn Holder. There was a 19-year old leftarm spinner called
Eliquimedo Willet who made his debut in that series. I am fuzzy on
the Wi batsmen except Kanhai. Rowe, Fredericks, Carew. Sobers was
not there for some reason (although he played in England afterwards
and even made a hundred).

One of the tests, I remember, featured the Chappelli, coming
together at around 19/2 losing Stackpole and Redpath to brilliant
slip catches by Kanhai. Greg made a hundred and Ian was run out
for 72 or so. Really the first time I was exposed to their greatness.

One of the tests (4th or 5th) was won by Aus by 10 wkts. The first
innings scores were pretty close, WI caved in for a small score
and Aus set to make 135 made it look simple with Redpath/Stackpole.

Any WIans, Aussies old enough :-( to give more details on the series ?

That brings me to Redpath. What do Aussies think of him? I always
thought he was underrecognized. Remember that the WI vs Aus 1975
featured some great achievements, but Redpath hit THREE hundreds
in the series. One of the was overshadowed by Chappell's 182*, the
other by Cosier's century on debut.

By the way, since Redpath/Stackpole Aus has never had a consistent
opening pair. In my memory, Greenidge/Haynes and Boycott/Amiss were
the only great opening pairs since then. ( No I am not forgetting
Gavaskar and the 16 partners he had :-))

Enough ramblin'

rajeev
--
Rajeev Menon

--
Rajeev Menon
Hewlett Packard Company, 1400 Fountaingrove Pkwy, Santa Rosa CA 95403

 
 
 

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Sanjay Na » Wed, 21 Apr 1993 16:04:10

        < Interesting memories deleted >

Quote:
>WI had a pace bowler called Uton Dowe who was pretty bad, Gibbs

        Yeah, Dowe wasn't quite test standard. He took a beating in the WI/Ind
series of '71 prompting WI fans to chant "Dowe shall not bowl".

I think Dowe was from Jamaica - I remember hearing/reading Holding say
that Dowe was an influence on his career. So, one can say he played a big
part in WI cricket ;-)

Quote:

>By the way, since Redpath/Stackpole Aus has never had a consistent
>opening pair. In my memory, Greenidge/Haynes and Boycott/Amiss were
>the only great opening pairs since then. ( No I am not forgetting
>Gavaskar and the 16 partners he had :-))

        I'd be interested to read the stats for Boycott/Amiss, since Amiss was
a particular favourite player of mine. Being a regular at Edgbaston, I had the
pleasure of seeing Amiss and Kalli bat hundreds of times. However, I'd be
surprised if the Boycott/Amiss partnership was more successful than the
Boycott/Gooch partnership.

Personally, I got the feeling that Boycott's arrogance was at its peak during
the early 70s, ie. when Amiss was partnering him. I don't think the two of
them liked each other much. I remember reading in an Amiss autobiography (from
the early 70s) about an incident in which Amiss ended up running out Boycott.
As Boycott walked past him, he gave Amiss a whole mouthful. I can't
remember in which test this incident took place. In the book, Amiss mentions
how when they walked out to open the innings, Boycott would always walk in
front of him to signify his superiority. There are some interesting
observations on Boycott by Amiss in this book. Another interesting bit is that
Boycott didn't like Amiss saying "Good Luck" when they went out to open.
He felt only inferior batsmen needed luck and he certainly wasn't one of
them.

I think Boycott had cooled off a lot by the time he returned from exile.
Maybe, he felt a little threatened by Amiss, since Amiss was having
success in the early 70s - remember his match saving innings in Kingston,
262*. I think Boycott played in this series, but I can't remember his
performances - I'll have to look it up tomorrow. And ofcourse, Boycott hated
Greig with a passion, grudgingly accepting any of his talents.

He seemed to have a lot more respect for Gooch and openly praised him,
something he would rarely do in the early part of his career. The two of
them had formed a good partnership and I think it lasted longer than the
Boycott/Amiss partnership.

It's true that there have been few great opening partnerships in the last
20 years other than the Greenidge/Haynes combination which has to be one
of the greatest in the history of the game. None of their contemporaries
have come close.

Other decent partnerships that come to mind are Moshin/Mudassar for Pak -
they stayed together for a long time. Indian fans will think of
Gavaskar/Chauhan, but I think Gavaskar had a better partnership with
Srikanth - they complemented each other well. For Oz, Marsh has done well
with both Boon and Taylor and NZ had a reliable pair with Wright/Edgar.

There have been tons of other pairs - names like Brian Luckhurst, Bob Woolmer,
Alan Turner, Graeme Wood, John Dyson race through my mind, but some of these
guys had various partners and neither they nor their partners were good
enough to form a formidable pair.

It's interesting to note that before the Greenidge/Haynes partnership, WI
had experimented a lot trying to find the right pair. Didn't they have
guys like Rowe and Kalli opening too ? India and NZ had the problem of
trying to find a player with a fraction of the talent of Gavaskar &
Turner, a difficult job by any means.

I would say that finding the right pair has to be one of the most
difficult jobs for a selector to perform. Openers require special
abilities and it just isn't as simple as putting your two best bats in
first. Otherwise we would have seen pairs such as Richards/Lloyd,
Gavaskar/Vishwanath, Chappell/Chappell, etc.

Quote:
>Enough ramblin'

        Me too!!

Quote:
>rajeev
>--
>Rajeev Menon

>--
>Rajeev Menon
>Hewlett Packard Company, 1400 Fountaingrove Pkwy, Santa Rosa CA 95403

Bye,

Sanjay Naik.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

 
 
 

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Spaceman Spif » Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:03:54



Quote:

>Other decent partnerships that come to mind are Moshin/Mudassar for Pak -
>they stayed together for a long time. Indian fans will think of
>Gavaskar/Chauhan, but I think Gavaskar had a better partnership with
>Srikanth - they complemented each other well.

perhaps. but gavaskar and chauhan had a more productive partnership. they
had 10 century partnerships as compared to only 2 (or 3) for gavaskar and
srikkanth. at one stage, they held the opening partnership record for india
vs every country except new zealand- 192 vs pakistan (broken by 200 partnership
between gavaskar and srikkanth), 192 vs australia, 213 vs england and 156 vs
west indies. also, gavaskar and chauhan had an average opening partnership of
over 50- compared to about 30 for gavaskar-srikkanth.

Stay cool,
Spaceman Spiff

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lotta poor man make a five dollar bill,
Keep him happy all the time.
Some other fella's makin' nothin' at all
And you can hear him cry,

 
 
 

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Neeran M. Karn » Fri, 23 Apr 1993 01:14:51

Quote:

>perhaps. but gavaskar and chauhan had a more productive partnership. they
>had 10 century partnerships as compared to only 2 (or 3) for gavaskar and
>srikkanth.

[.....]

Quote:
>also, gavaskar and chauhan had an average opening partnership of
>over 50- compared to about 30 for gavaskar-srikkanth.

    Hey, can you imagine me *correcting* Spaceman's stats! He must have
    left his Wisden at home :-) Only a minor quibble though... Gavaskar
    and Srikkanth had an average partnership of 43.2 with three
    partnerships of 100+ and nine others of 50+ - this in a span of 23
    Tests (34 innings). Not exactly a dazzling record. Gavaskar and
    Chauhan, OTOH, had 10 100+ and 10 50+ partnerships, and averaged
    53.75 a stand. They opened 59 times for India in 36 Tests.

    No qualitative comparisons intended here, but Greenidge and Haynes
    in fact averaged less than Gavaskar-Chauhan (47.32) and less than
    many other durable pairs in Test history like Hobbs-Sutcliffe,
    Hutton-Washbrook, Simpson-Lawry....

Quote:
>Spaceman Spiff

P.S. ..... and they never had to face the Windies quicks :-) Heh Heh >:->

     +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
     | Neeran M. Karnik | #2 fan of Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar on r.s.c.  :-> |
     | Dept. of CompSci.| "Pele in football, Becker in tennis, Ali in      |
     | U of Minnesota   | boxing. Sachin is in that league." - Tony Cozier |
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 
 

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Peter Abela (The Speak » Fri, 23 Apr 1993 06:49:36

Quote:

> Somebody (Mcbean perhaps ?) mentioned a while back that the last
> series WI lost at home was in 1973 against Aus. I didn't realize
> that it was 20 years ago, but that was a good series. I am writing
> this from memory, so I could be wrong on some of the facts.

> That was Kanhai's first stint as captain, of a pretty poor WI side
> if I recall and WI lost 2-0. Australia had Stackpole, Redpath,
> The Chappells, Ross Edwards, Marsh, O'keefe, Walker ( I can't
> remember if Lillee, McKenzie and or Mallett were on that tour )
> Good batting side, not such a great bowling side.

Lillee toured, but he broke down with a back injury.
Max Walker did most of the bowling, including a haul of 8/143. I think
David Colley may have been another of the fast bowlers.

Quote:

> WI had a pace bowler called Uton Dowe who was pretty bad, Gibbs
> and Vanburn Holder. There was a 19-year old leftarm spinner called
> Eliquimedo Willet who made his debut in that series. I am fuzzy on
> the Wi batsmen except Kanhai. Rowe, Fredericks, Carew. Sobers was
> not there for some reason (although he played in England afterwards
> and even made a hundred).

Uton Dowe used to love bowling bouncers, and Stackpole used to love hooking.
After six or seven overs, Stacky had hooked Dowe for a heap of 4's and 6's,
so Dowe was replaced. Later in the innings when Dowe came back on, one of the
West Indian fans yelled out to the skipper (I think it was of Dowe's Island
side, not in a test match), "Hey skipper, haven't you heard the 11th
commandment, 'Dowe shall not bowl'" :-)

Quote:

> One of the tests, I remember, featured the Chappelli, coming
> together at around 19/2 losing Stackpole and Redpath to brilliant
> slip catches by Kanhai. Greg made a hundred and Ian was run out
> for 72 or so. Really the first time I was exposed to their greatness.

One of the tests Australia won by only 30 or 40. At lunch on day 5, Windies
needed 55 to win, with 5 wickets in hand, and Rowe in good form. Ian Chappell
said it was one of the few times he had given his team a "blast". First ball
after tea, Rowe fell to Walker, the Windies collapsed, and Australia won.

Quote:
> One of the tests (4th or 5th) was won by Aus by 10 wkts. The first
> innings scores were pretty close, WI caved in for a small score
> and Aus set to make 135 made it look simple with Redpath/Stackpole.

> Any WIans, Aussies old enough :-( to give more details on the series ?

I'm old enough, but only just. I was one at the time.
All stats are from memory, so they could be wrong.

Quote:

> That brings me to Redpath. What do Aussies think of him? I always
> thought he was underrecognized. Remember that the WI vs Aus 1975
> featured some great achievements, but Redpath hit THREE hundreds
> in the series. One of the was overshadowed by Chappell's 182*, the
> other by Cosier's century on debut.

He was one of the most unlucky cricketers Australia has had. Despite
scoring 4737 runs at 43, his place was never guaranteed. But he was a
great fighter.

Quote:
> By the way, since Redpath/Stackpole Aus has never had a consistent
> opening pair. In my memory, Greenidge/Haynes and Boycott/Amiss were
> the only great opening pairs since then. ( No I am not forgetting
> Gavaskar and the 16 partners he had :-))

Boon and Marsh had their moments in the late 80's.

Peter Abela

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Success is getting what you want - Happiness is wanting what
you get
===============================================================================

 
 
 

WI last loss at home : 1973 ?

Post by Rob McMill » Fri, 23 Apr 1993 11:00:10


Quote:
> Lillee toured, but he broke down with a back injury.
> Max Walker did most of the bowling, including a haul of 8/143. I think
> David Colley may have been another of the fast bowlers.

Bomber Hammond was Max's partner-in-crime. As well as losing Lillee, Bob Massie
lost form (and ended his career), which was another blow.

Quote:
> I'm old enough, but only just. I was one at the time.
> All stats are from memory, so they could be wrong.

Well, I was an old man of 8.

Quote:

>> By the way, since Redpath/Stackpole Aus has never had a consistent
>> opening pair. In my memory, Greenidge/Haynes and Boycott/Amiss were
>> the only great opening pairs since then. ( No I am not forgetting
>> Gavaskar and the 16 partners he had :-))

> Boon and Marsh had their moments in the late 80's.

And I'd imagine that the Pommy bowlers still have nightmares about Marsh and
Taylor from 1989. Apart from those three (Boon, Marsh and Taylor), it's a fair
comment that our top order has been flakey -  particularly from the late-70's
to about 1987.

--
Rob.