Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by AKan » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:03:38


I think that English cricket was changed by an event outside of cricket.
That event was the English victory in the FIFA WC in 1966 over Germany.

Till that time with Tyson and Trueman and Statham and Laker and Snow -
and Edrich , Graveney, Compton, May, Dexter, Boycott, Illingworth....
English cricket was going great.

Even 1966 did not change it at once - England still produced talent but
it slowly changed. Soccer replaced cricket as by far the popular (esp
blue collar) sport in England. This led to the athletic youngsters being
more inclined to go to soccer and they make more money too. These are
all guesses and I may be wrong here.

So the questions are

1. Do English youngsters(5 - 10 yr olds) want to be in cricket or are
they all dreaming of being the next Beckham or Owens - or is it as they
get older they realize there is more money/fame in soccer.

2. What would an Englishman prefer - A major soccer win(like the 5-1)
over Germany in Berlin or a win over Australia in a test match/series in
Australia?

I am not looking for flaming or flames just asking simple questions.

Ashish

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Ken Walli » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:57:32

Quote:

> I think that English cricket was changed by an event outside of
> cricket. That event was the English victory in the FIFA WC in 1966
> over Germany.

> Till that time with Tyson and Trueman and Statham and Laker and Snow -
> and Edrich , Graveney, Compton, May, Dexter, Boycott, Illingworth....
> English cricket was going great.

> Even 1966 did not change it at once - England still produced talent
> but it slowly changed. Soccer replaced cricket as by far the popular
> (esp blue collar) sport in England. This led to the athletic
> youngsters being more inclined to go to soccer and they make more
> money too. These are all guesses and I may be wrong here.

I spent the first 28 years of my life in England.  I suspect you are
attributing too much weight to external factors.

Football (soccer to those who can't understand that it is a game played with
your feet and a ball) has always been the primary (blue collar) winter sport
in England.  Winter imposes its presence far more effectively in England
than summer ever does.  Football is thus the path of least resistance.

Perhaps your question should have been:  which caused more pain in England,
losing the Ashes series in Australia in under 11 days or losing to Australia
in a game of Football shortly afterwards?  Right now the Poms are probably
more focussed on their chances of beating Australia in the upcoming Rugby
World Cup.

Cheers,

Ken

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Ken Higg » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:52:44

Quote:


> > I think that English cricket was changed by an event outside of
> > cricket. That event was the English victory in the FIFA WC in 1966
> > over Germany.

> > Till that time with Tyson and Trueman and Statham and Laker and Snow -
> > and Edrich , Graveney, Compton, May, Dexter, Boycott, Illingworth....
> > English cricket was going great.

> > Even 1966 did not change it at once - England still produced talent
> > but it slowly changed. Soccer replaced cricket as by far the popular
> > (esp blue collar) sport in England. This led to the athletic
> > youngsters being more inclined to go to soccer and they make more
> > money too. These are all guesses and I may be wrong here.

> I spent the first 28 years of my life in England.  I suspect you are
> attributing too much weight to external factors.

> Football (soccer to those who can't understand that it is a game played with
> your feet and a ball) has always been the primary (blue collar) winter sport
> in England.  Winter imposes its presence far more effectively in England
> than summer ever does.  Football is thus the path of least resistance.

> Perhaps your question should have been:  which caused more pain in England,
> losing the Ashes series in Australia in under 11 days or losing to Australia
> in a game of Football shortly afterwards?  Right now the Poms are probably
> more focussed on their chances of beating Australia in the upcoming Rugby
> World Cup.

> Cheers,

> Ken

It's always been my understanding that in days of yore, you had the likes of
Denis Compton playing soccer in winter and cricket in summer. Didn't he
represent England at both, or was that his brother?
Wally Hammond played for, I think, Bristol Rovers (City?).

But these days, both games are way too professional and time consuming for a
player to be able to do both. I can see from a purely economic point of view
that soccer is much more financially rewarding, if you wanted the money, you'd
play soccer ahead of cricket.

And Jeff Wilson, a talented cricketer as well as being a rugby All Black.
But couldn't do both at the same time.

I think the days of playing two discrete sports to International level have long
gone.

Can anyone think of a counter example?

Higgsy

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Ben Gusse » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:12:47


Quote:

> It's always been my understanding that in days of yore, you had the likes
of
> Denis Compton playing soccer in winter and cricket in summer. Didn't he
> represent England at both, or was that his brother?
> Wally Hammond played for, I think, Bristol Rovers (City?).

> But these days, both games are way too professional and time consuming for
a
> player to be able to do both. I can see from a purely economic point of
view
> that soccer is much more financially rewarding, if you wanted the money,
you'd
> play soccer ahead of cricket.

> And Jeff Wilson, a talented cricketer as well as being a rugby All Black.
> But couldn't do both at the same time.

> I think the days of playing two discrete sports to International level
have long
> gone.

> Can anyone think of a counter example?

> Higgsy

Can't think of any recent counter examples, apart from a few female athletes
in not too recognised sports. Nova Perris Kneebone went from a Hockey gold
medalist to Australian sprinter. But as far as top level professional sports
go, I don't think this case really exists.

Anyway, this reply was more to ask what has happened with Jeff Wilson, than
anything else. I remember him switching codes about a year ago but I haven't
heard anything about his progress.

--
Cheers,
Ben.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by AKan » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:25:29

Quote:

<snip>

I think Botham played a little soccer.

Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football and
baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Mike Holman » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:37:10


Quote:
>I think that English cricket was changed by an event outside of cricket.
>That event was the English victory in the FIFA WC in 1966 over Germany.

>Till that time with Tyson and Trueman and Statham and Laker and Snow -
>and Edrich , Graveney, Compton, May, Dexter, Boycott, Illingworth....
>English cricket was going great.

>Even 1966 did not change it at once - England still produced talent but
>it slowly changed. Soccer replaced cricket as by far the popular (esp
>blue collar) sport in England. This led to the athletic youngsters being
>more inclined to go to soccer and they make more money too. These are
>all guesses and I may be wrong here.

Just about as wrong as you could be, in fact.

Soccer was more popular than cricket by the late nine***th century,
if not before.

The only thing you're right about was that it was victory over Germany
which irrevocably changed English cricket. However, the date of that
victory was 1918.

The consequence of WW1 especially, but also WW2, was that boys from
relatively wealthy backgrounds could no longer afford not to get
themselves serious professional employment after they came down from
University, and could not therefore idle away their twenties playing
cricket before they went on to take a sinecure in Daddy's business.

And the consequence of that is that the boys who go to the schools
which actually take cricket seriously, have professional cricket
coaches and so on, are actually the least likely to play the game
seriously as ***s.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Bob Dube » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:25:33

Quote:


><snip>

>I think Botham played a little soccer.

He played for Scunthorpe - but never with the view of making it a
fulltime occupation or as having an alternative source of income.

Quote:
>Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football and
>baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

How recently was that?

These days it's very unusual to play more than one sport at top level.
There are probably quite a lot of athletes who have an ability for
several sports, but they have to decide which one they want to
dedicate time too.

Herschelle Gibbs was a brilliant schoolboy rugby player. Jonty Rhodes
nearly went to the Olympics as a hockey player - after he'd played in
the 1992 CWC. All the Kirstens played rugby and cricket and Peter
Kirsten could probably have played either game at the highest level.
But invariably players have to pick one game or an other and channel
their efforts into that.

And it's not always a dollars and cents decision. Kepler Wessels was
an outstanding *** age tennis player. He was certainly ranked ahead
of and was a better player than Johann Kriek who made several times
more money out of tennis than Wessels ever made from cricket.

Peter Kirsten had to pack rugby in after sustaining a very *** leg
injury. Rhodes was told by the UCB that he could play international
hockey or international cricket but not both. I don't know why Gibbs
settled on cricket, he was certainly a top notch flyhalf and, I'm
told, a very good soccer player as well.

Thinking of some other SA players of recent vintage, Daryll Cullinan
was also a useful rugby player, Boucher has provincial colours for
squash, Mandy Yachad was also a very good hockey player, Jimmy Cook
played professional soccer, and Fanie de Villiers - and this is true
and, in light of some recent remarks, a little amusing - was a very
good javelin thrower.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:34:24


<snip>

Quote:
> Anyway, this reply was more to ask what has happened with Jeff Wilson,
than
> anything else. I remember him switching codes about a year ago but I
haven't
> heard anything about his progress.

He has taken his return to cricket seriously, which is to say that he
trained and practiced hard in preparation for the season just ended.
However he suffered several different injuries, and basically made no
impression at all playing for Otago in the domestic competitions:

first-class matches:
played 5


limited-overs matches:
played 5


Andrew

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Yuk Tan » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:29:11

Quote:

> 1. Do English youngsters(5 - 10 yr olds) want to be in cricket or are
> they all dreaming of being the next Beckham or Owens - or is it as
> they get older they realize there is more money/fame in soccer.

Precisely.  And the money thang is realised at quite an early age.

Quote:
> 2. What would an Englishman prefer - A major soccer win(like the 5-1)
> over Germany in Berlin or a win over Australia in a test match/series
> in Australia?

A football win over Germany (in Munich, their premier footballing city)
rates above all other sporting achievements.  And that's the case for quite
a few European countries, especially those who were occupied during WWII.
That's why the '66 win was so sweet to the English, and why the 5-1
demolition was rated even higher in a poll of English sporting achievements.

Cheers, ymt.
Who supports a team who beat Bayern in Munich.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Yuk Tan » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:30:16

Quote:



> <snip>

>> Anyway, this reply was more to ask what has happened with Jeff
>> Wilson, than anything else. I remember him switching codes about a
>> year ago but I haven't heard anything about his progress.

> He has taken his return to cricket seriously, which is to say that he
> trained and practiced hard in preparation for the season just ended.
> However he suffered several different injuries, and basically made no
> impression at all playing for Otago in the domestic competitions:

Sounds like he's a prime candidate for the national side.

Cheers, ymt.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Yuk Tan » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:32:07

Quote:

> I think Botham played a little soccer.

> Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football
> and baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

Denis Compton was highly rated when he played for Arsenal.

Cheers, ymt.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Joseph McDonnel » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:36:54

Quote:


> > I think Botham played a little soccer.

> > Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football
> > and baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

> Denis Compton was highly rated when he played for Arsenal.

> Cheers, ymt.

I believe Gary Lineker was a fairly useful cricketer who could have played
county cricket. And of course, Craig Bradley played cricket at Shield level
as well as Aussie Rules (ok, he only played about 4 games in total).

Regards

Joseph

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Mad Hamis » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:59:45



Quote:

>> I think Botham played a little soccer.

>> Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football
>> and baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

>Denis Compton was highly rated when he played for Arsenal.

Didn't Viv Richards play international football?
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001

Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Ben Gusse » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 22:21:29


Quote:

> He has taken his return to cricket seriously, which is to say that he
> trained and practiced hard in preparation for the season just ended.
> However he suffered several different injuries, and basically made no
> impression at all playing for Otago in the domestic competitions:

> first-class matches:
> played 5


> limited-overs matches:
> played 5


> Andrew

Ok, thanks Andrew. A bit disappointing to see, I was hoping he'd make a
successful switch. Have you actually seen him play? Does he look the goods?

--
Cheers,
Ben.

 
 
 

Questions for Eng fans - Aus(cric) or Germany(fball)?

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:49:45


Quote:



> > > I think Botham played a little soccer.

> > > Here in the US two players come to mind who played American football
> > > and baseball and played both very well. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders.

> > Denis Compton was highly rated when he played for Arsenal.

> > Cheers, ymt.

> I believe Gary Lineker was a fairly useful cricketer who could have played
> county cricket.

England fly-half Rob Andrew scored a first-class century for Cambridge
University.  Scotland goalkeeper Andy Goram also played first-class cricket.

Andrew