Lara back, same old story

Lara back, same old story

Post by Vina » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:37:59


For those who were wondering what had taken over the WI in the first test,
when they played without their "stars", things seem back to normal. Lara is
back, everyone else has failed, Lara scores a century. I wonder if there is
something about Lara's presence that actually prevents the others from
trying their best. Do they feel that no matter what they do, he will always
be the prima donna of the team and so just dont try or what? Interesting
psychology going on. Would have been interesting to see how they would have
fared for a few more tests before the stars came back.
 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Mike Holman » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:33:55


the keyboard and brought forth:

Quote:
>For those who were wondering what had taken over the WI in the first test,
>when they played without their "stars", things seem back to normal. Lara is
>back, everyone else has failed, Lara scores a century. I wonder if there is
>something about Lara's presence that actually prevents the others from
>trying their best. Do they feel that no matter what they do, he will always
>be the prima donna of the team and so just dont try or what? Interesting
>psychology going on. Would have been interesting to see how they would have
>fared for a few more tests before the stars came back.

Well, the other stars - Gayle, Sarwan and Bravo managed 16 runs
between them. For Gayle and Sarwan, it was indeed the familiar story,
Gayle playing a loose shot and getting caught behind, and Sarwan
falling for the hook in true Andrew Hilditch style.

Had Lara been left out of this team though, WI would now be 180 all
out at best.

Hinds and Chanderpaul played very well indeed for their 30s, but this
is a pitch on which the bounce is very unpredictable already. It's not
spitting really viciously, so the batsmen aren't in physical danger,
but it's very difficult to pick up what shot to play from the apparent
length.

I don't think there's another batsman in the world who could have got
the runs Lara did today: you'd back a Kallis or a Dravid to have
survived it, but they'd be on 73* and feeling that they'd done pretty
well, not 159*. I don't know what the Australian batsmen would have
done, but we'd already be inundated with posts from Alvey calling for
the removal of Port of Spain from the Test match circuit.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Aditya Basru » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:13:29

Quote:

> I don't think there's another batsman in the world who could have got
> the runs Lara did today: you'd back a Kallis or a Dravid to have
> survived it, but they'd be on 73* and feeling that they'd done pretty
> well, not 159*. I don't know what the Australian batsmen would have
> done, but we'd already be inundated with posts from Alvey calling for
> the removal of Port of Spain from the Test match circuit.

It's the sort of knock I was hoping for from Tendulkar on the last day
of the recent Bangalore Test, but hardly expecting. The difference is
that with Lara, you can expect it and not be disappointed 99 times out
of 100.

Australian batsmen who could have done something similar: Ponting,
Hayden (in form), Langer, Gilchrist, maybe Martyn (given his
performance at Melbourne last year). That's why they're great, and
everyone else, bar Lara, is an also-ran.

Aditya

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Mike Holman » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:22:46

On 8 Apr 2005 16:13:29 -0700, "Aditya Basrur"

Quote:


>> I don't think there's another batsman in the world who could have got
>> the runs Lara did today: you'd back a Kallis or a Dravid to have
>> survived it, but they'd be on 73* and feeling that they'd done pretty
>> well, not 159*. I don't know what the Australian batsmen would have
>> done, but we'd already be inundated with posts from Alvey calling for
>> the removal of Port of Spain from the Test match circuit.

>It's the sort of knock I was hoping for from Tendulkar on the last day
>of the recent Bangalore Test, but hardly expecting. The difference is
>that with Lara, you can expect it and not be disappointed 99 times out
>of 100.

>Australian batsmen who could have done something similar: Ponting,
>Hayden (in form), Langer, Gilchrist, maybe Martyn (given his
>performance at Melbourne last year). That's why they're great, and
>everyone else, bar Lara, is an also-ran.

I'm not convinced. That lot didn't do very well on similar pitches
against the likes of Caddick and Harmison, so I don't see why they'd
do well on this one against this attack.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Gafoo » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:56:26

Quote:

> I don't think there's another batsman in the world who could have got
> the runs Lara did today: you'd back a Kallis or a Dravid to have
> survived it, but they'd be on 73* and feeling that they'd done pretty
> well, not 159*.

Even forgetting the strokes or the strike rate, I wouldn't really back
Dravid to do a boy on the burning deck.

Dravid very rarely scores when everybody else around him is falling.
Only 3 times in his career has RD scored 50 in a completed inning
when no one else has scored a 50 (1 of this 3 is a 100).

More info found here
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/c8519d37080...

Quote:
> I don't know what the Australian batsmen would have
> done, but we'd already be inundated with posts from Alvey calling for
> the removal of Port of Spain from the Test match circuit.

> Cheers,

> Mike

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by xs.. » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:01:23

This is my impression of Dravid too.

Among the Indians, Tendulkar is most likely to make batting look easy
on a difficult wicket.

s.

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Aditya Basru » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:41:40

Quote:


> > I don't think there's another batsman in the world who could have
got
> > the runs Lara did today: you'd back a Kallis or a Dravid to have
> > survived it, but they'd be on 73* and feeling that they'd done
pretty
> > well, not 159*.

> Even forgetting the strokes or the strike rate, I wouldn't really
back
> Dravid to do a boy on the burning deck.

> Dravid very rarely scores when everybody else around him is falling.
> Only 3 times in his career has RD scored 50 in a completed inning
> when no one else has scored a 50 (1 of this 3 is a 100).

> More info found here

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/c8519d37080...

Since you've found that old thread, you should read Shripathi's
evisceration (Marathi translation: gaand phataila) of your BS theory in
that thread, and the multitude of times people have told you how flawed
it is subsequently.

And the BOBD idea is not just to do with past accomplishment. Bar the
167, no-one would have expected VVSL to do it at Kolkata, but he did.
It takes an innings like that to make someone's name. Tendulkar hasn't
done it to win India a match, and Lara has done it several times, which
is the difference between a great player and a gifted player with
flawed temperament.

Aditya

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Aditya Basru » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:43:26

Quote:

> This is my impression of Dravid too.

I'm not surprised.

Quote:
> Among the Indians, Tendulkar is most likely to make batting look easy
> on a difficult wicket.

And make getting out 150 runs short of the target look equally easy.
Even that's in the past tense - if you saw him at Bangalore, he made
batting on an easy-ish wicket look tortuous in both innings.

Try to make your biases less obvious, Samir.

Aditya

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Aditya Basru » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:43:20

Quote:

> This is my impression of Dravid too.

I'm not surprised.

Quote:
> Among the Indians, Tendulkar is most likely to make batting look easy
> on a difficult wicket.

And make getting out 150 runs short of the target look equally easy.
Even that's in the past tense - if you saw him at Bangalore, he made
batting on an easy-ish wicket look tortuous in both innings.

Try to make your biases less obvious, Samir.

Aditya

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Aditya Basru » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:01:21

Quote:

> On 8 Apr 2005 16:13:29 -0700, "Aditya Basrur"

> >Australian batsmen who could have done something similar: Ponting,
> >Hayden (in form), Langer, Gilchrist, maybe Martyn (given his
> >performance at Melbourne last year). That's why they're great, and
> >everyone else, bar Lara, is an also-ran.

> I'm not convinced. That lot didn't do very well on similar pitches
> against the likes of Caddick and Harmison, so I don't see why they'd
> do well on this one against this attack.

Because they have the talent and temperament to do so. Unlike a certain
Tendulkar (who has the talent, but not the temperament). Mine's a
prospective evaluation, rather than anything historically based - they
seem to have solid enough techniques, particularly the Western
Australians, to prosper on any sort of track. I think they *could* have
done something similar - whether they *will* (or would have?) is
another issue entirely.

Aditya

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by alve » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:41:12

snip irrelevant

Quote:
> but we'd already be inundated with posts from Alvey calling for
> the removal of Port of Spain from the Test match circuit.

Wrong again Micheal.
Any venue that has *** in it's name is just fine with me...

alvey
in brish, thinking about forming a Chardonnay CC.

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by alve » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:43:34

Quote:

> This is my impression of Dravid too.

> Among the Indians, Tendulkar is most likely to make batting look easy
> on a difficult wicket.

Otoh, Geoff Marsh.

alveu

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by Mike Holman » Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:25:34

On 8 Apr 2005 21:01:21 -0700, "Aditya Basrur"

Quote:


>> On 8 Apr 2005 16:13:29 -0700, "Aditya Basrur"

>> >Australian batsmen who could have done something similar: Ponting,
>> >Hayden (in form), Langer, Gilchrist, maybe Martyn (given his
>> >performance at Melbourne last year). That's why they're great, and
>> >everyone else, bar Lara, is an also-ran.

>> I'm not convinced. That lot didn't do very well on similar pitches
>> against the likes of Caddick and Harmison, so I don't see why they'd
>> do well on this one against this attack.

>Because they have the talent and temperament to do so. Unlike a certain
>Tendulkar (who has the talent, but not the temperament). Mine's a
>prospective evaluation, rather than anything historically based - they
>seem to have solid enough techniques, particularly the Western
>Australians, to prosper on any sort of track. I think they *could* have
>done something similar - whether they *will* (or would have?) is
>another issue entirely.

It's my impression, which no doubt the erudite Gafool will be able to
correct with copious statistics and graphs, that that lot are
generally mediocre on poor pitches, and that the reason they don't
manage to lose many matches on same is that their bowlers are even
better and so their opponents do very poorly indeed.

Australians tend to think of poor pitches as appalling natural
disasters which should really lead to the match being called off
rather than as natural hazards which any professional player ought to
be capable of dealing with. People like Langer and Hayden with
extensive experience in English domestic cricket are probably somewhat
better able to cope than those like Ponting, Martyn and Gilchrist who
have virtually zero experience on bad wickets, but Bradman played
quite a bit in England and never mastered poor pitches either.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by xs.. » Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:54:11

In fact, my impression is that Laxman is a better bat than Dravid in
unhelpful conditions for batting.

s.

 
 
 

Lara back, same old story

Post by xs.. » Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:00:10

Re Bradman and poor pitches, I've seen some people regard Trumper as
greater than Bradman precisely for his much superior ability to play on
wet pitches.

Poor pitches make the game interesting so long as there is no advantage
to a team on account of the toss.