South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Shau » Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


>> You guys are ***ing on.
>> You DON'T KNOW whether he was cheating.
>> What you do know is he had his boot on the ball.
>> This was a silly act by Cronje, but that appears to be all it was.
>> His mind seemed to be on the crowd disturbance at the time and was just
>> mindlessly fiddling around with the ball.
>> Silly yes, but cheating NO!!!

>> Cronje actions in past during games would give no reason to assume he was
>> intentionally trying to gain an advantage by messing up the ball

>> The person who rate the original subject line above is just a trouble
>> maker

>I have the atmost respect and admiration for Hansie Cronje. I do not
>think the actions as reported could be construed as intentionally
>roughing up the ball.

>Were there any comments frop the umpires, or match referee ??

They knew nothing of it on the night of the game..

 or

Quote:
>opposing captain ?? regading the state of the ball ????

see above comments..

Quote:
>This seems to me to be the typical Aussie response to being beaten - The
>opposition are all cheats.

Bullshit!
I'm an Aussie (irrelevant except in context of what you just wrote above)
and i'm sticking up for Hansie.
From what i've heard on Sports talkback show the typical Aussie respone
has been to give Hansie the benefit of the doubt which any fair minded
person would.
In fact what pissed me off is the ***ers who assume straight away that
Hansie was cheating (sinister minds, probably cheat themselves in sports)
Those typical ***ers are the ones that post something with a heading
like  " South African captain caught cheating!!!"
In fact looking at the address of the poster they appaer to be from New
Zealand not Australia.
Regardless, i could not give a rats arse whether they are Kiwis, Aussies
, South Africans, Sri Lankans, Poms etc. etc. It's the attitude of
*assuming he was cheating* from what they saw of the footage that pisses
me off.

Cheers,
 Shaun

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Ben Kirtlan » Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:00:00

hahahahahahahahahahaaha... this makes me laugh.....

Quote:


>> > hypothetical:
>> > remove Cronje, insert Warne.. we wouldnt be able to shut u lot up....
>> > if it was an Australian player, such as Shane Warne who did what Cronje
>> did,
>> > all u guys would be the first and loudest to be screaming he was a
cheat,
>> > and we would be getting the good ol' "sons of convicts" arguments
>> again...

>The difference is that by his track record to date, Shane has proved
>himself to be a complete ***. Wheras Hansie has proved himself to be
>an honest, decent and honourable gentleman !!!!!

>Mike.


 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Mike Rochfor » Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> >Were there any comments frop the umpires, or match referee ??

> They knew nothing of it on the night of the game..

>  or
> >opposing captain ?? regading the state of the ball ????

> see above comments..

Therefore there was no discernable damage to the ball.

If undue damage had been caused to the ball it would have been picked up
and commented upon by the match referee and umpires.

I rest my case.

Mike.

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Bob Dube » Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>>Were there any comments frop the umpires, or match referee ??
>They knew nothing of it on the night of the game..

Which is significant. The umpires are supposed to inspect the ball at
regular intervals. So even if they didn't see the "toe on ball"
incident they should have noticed any unusual deterioration of the
ball's condition.

The ball was not changed, was it? Were any questions as to the
condition of the ball directed towards the fielding side?

Bob Dubery
***************************************************
The adresses shown in the header are bogus.

Unknot this:

for my e-mail address
*****************************************************

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Paul Morriso » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> I will email his holiness immediately to arrange for the canonisation of
> St Hansie the honest.

That would be nice, I am sure he would appreciate that greatly. Does
he get to wear one of those big hats?

Quote:
> get a grip Paulie,

That is *Mister* Paulie to you, Shane.   ;)

Quote:
> this man is a professional cricketer!!

So why would he risk that professional career in a stupid move which
would ultimately have no effect on the outcome of the game?

Quote:
> It is not
> entirely beyond the realms of possibility that he may bend the rules in
> his favour from time to time. Nor is it entirely absurd to suggest that
> he may not always be entirely forthright in his responses.

True. But it would certainly be a change from his entire cricket
career up to now.

Quote:
> BTW, implicit in your statement is the suggestion that he is *more*
> honest than other cricketers,

Certainly he is above average, and thus my description of him was
correct in my opinion. There are most definitely other cricketers more
honest than him.

Quote:
> I find this rather arrogant (not that I
> would want to stereotype South Africans as arrogant - never :-))

Glad to hear it.   ;)

Cheers.

--
Paul Morrison

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Paul Morriso » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> He's one of the most honest men in the world?  Based on what, exactly?

My opinion, which matters quite a bit to my view of the world. I
mentioned that he was *one of the most honest players in world
cricket*, not that he was one of the most honest people in the world.
There is some difference there.

Quote:
> Under your system if Player X is caught cheating against Team Y, then
> he can only be reasonably called a cheat if Team Y won the game,
> because if Team Y lost then it's obviously sour grapes.

> The Moral:  If you're going to cheat, make sure you win, then all
> accusations of cheating can be safely howled down with comments like
> "Bad Losers", "Sour Grapes" etc.

You certainly put an interesting spin on my words.

The fact that in this case SA won has no bearing on my opinions.

These are the facts as I see them:
SA were as certain to win as it is possible to be certain in cricket,
so Hansie had no reason to cheat;
Hansie has an image of being an honest and fair player, cheating would
go against that image and all previous matches;
The officials and vast majority of the players agree that Hansie did
not cheat;
And finally, the press of many countries (including SA) are notorious
for trying to make a big deal out of any such incident which could
explain why their team lost, besides the fact that the cricket-mad
population would avidly follow the story and increase revenue.

Quote:
> Do you really want that to happen?

Of course not, don't be silly.

--
Paul Morrison

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Paul Morriso » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Can't be the media that I read.

Well, those few elements who are insisting that Hansie was indeed
cheating seem to be all Australian. Maybe you are actually reading
decent news media? ;)

Quote:
> More often than not they're at their most
> joyous and descriptive when Australia gets hammered. Not nearly as bad as
> the English Tabloids, but we're workiong at it.

Ah, good old patriotism. The SA press tends to slam it's sports
teams/players whenever they are not no.1, which of course means that
they get slammed quite a bit.

--
Paul Morrison

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Rory Campbe » Tue, 23 Dec 1997 04:00:00

|>
|> > He's one of the most honest men in the world?  Based on what, exactly?
|>
|> My opinion, which matters quite a bit to my view of the world. I
|> mentioned that he was *one of the most honest players in world
|> cricket*, not that he was one of the most honest people in the world.
|> There is some difference there.

Point taken.

|>
|> > Under your system if Player X is caught cheating against Team Y, then
|> > he can only be reasonably called a cheat if Team Y won the game,
|> > because if Team Y lost then it's obviously sour grapes.
|> >
|> > The Moral:  If you're going to cheat, make sure you win, then all
|> > accusations of cheating can be safely howled down with comments like
|> > "Bad Losers", "Sour Grapes" etc.
|>
|> You certainly put an interesting spin on my words.
|>
|> The fact that in this case SA won has no bearing on my opinions.

Hang on, didn't you imply that the whole thing was an invention
by the Oz media to draw attention away from a loss?.  In fact you
concluded with:

Quote:
> Perhaps they think will somehow justify the team's loss...

|>
|> These are the facts as I see them:
|> SA were as certain to win as it is possible to be certain in cricket,
|> so Hansie had no reason to cheat;

Irrelevant.  The incident started when Hansie dropped the ball onto
the ground.  The incident finished when he picked it up again.  What
happened before, what happened after, have no relevance to the
issue.  The state of the game at the time also has no relevance to
the issue either.

|> Hansie has an image of being an honest and fair player, cheating would
|> go against that image and all previous matches;

One could say exactly the same thing about Mike Atherton before the
dirt-in-the-pocket incident.

|> The officials and vast majority of the players agree that Hansie did
|> not cheat;

This is of course relevant.  And I have to say I agree with them.  But
my point is that the issue of whether or not he did cheat has nothing
to do with the result of the match.

|> And finally, the press of many countries (including SA) are notorious
|> for trying to make a big deal out of any such incident which could
|> explain why their team lost, besides the fact that the cricket-mad
|> population would avidly follow the story and increase revenue.

In this case it's the Australian media, and the issue went away pretty
quickly indicating the cricket-mad Aussies didn't care.

|>
|> > Do you really want that to happen?
|>
|> Of course not, don't be silly.

Good, then we agree on something!

One further question:  we both agree that Hansie did not cheat.
However, do you think the issue should have been raised in the
first place?  I do.  I think there was sufficient evidence to
require the point to be addressed, and to give Hansie a chance
to give his side of the events and to say what really happened.

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Shau » Tue, 23 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:



>>>Were there any comments frop the umpires, or match referee ??
>>They knew nothing of it on the night of the game..
>Which is significant. The umpires are supposed to inspect the ball at
>regular intervals. So even if they didn't see the "toe on ball"
>incident they should have noticed any unusual deterioration of the
>ball's condition.
>The ball was not changed, was it?

Think it was. There was in one game. I can't remember if it was the game
in Sydney or Adelaide where they changed the ball cos of problems seeing
it.

Were any questions as to the

Quote:
>condition of the ball directed towards the fielding side?

As i pointed out is another post, the umpires never noticed that Cronje
had ever put his foot on the ball. So there would have been no direct
checking of ball to do with that incident anyway. They would have checked
on ball a few times though regardless and in one of these onedayers they
changed the ball once or twice either cos it was hard to see at night or
out of shape.

I like Hansie's sense of humour. Apparently on Saturday when he was
batting against Australia A he hit a six at Gabba and ball could not be
retrieved. The umpies got another ball and gave it to Hansie to look at,
he then dropped it on the ground and put his foot on top of it :-)

Pity Warne ain't got the same sense of humour about his waistline.
Warnes going to cop heaps in next few weeks from the Aussie crowds
simply cos he spat the dummy over something so silly.

Cheers,
 Shaun

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Mike Rochfor » Tue, 23 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> hahahahahahahahahahaaha... this makes me laugh.....

> >The difference is that by his track record to date, Shane has proved
> >himself to be a complete ***. Wheras Hansie has proved himself to be
> >an honest, decent and honourable gentleman !!!!!

> >Mike.

Ben

I'm glad that I brought some mirth into your life !!!

Now would yOu care to make an intelligent comment ????

Mike.

 
 
 

South African captain caught cheating !!!!!!!

Post by Paul Morriso » Thu, 25 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> |> The fact that in this case SA won has no bearing on my opinions.

> Hang on, didn't you imply that the whole thing was an invention
> by the Oz media to draw attention away from a loss?.  In fact you
> concluded with:

> > Perhaps they think will somehow justify the team's loss...

I mentioned that it was a possibility, and that I hoped it was indeed
not true. SA winning or losing had no bearing on the way I thought
Hansie had been treated by some people.

Quote:
> Irrelevant.  The incident started when Hansie dropped the ball onto
> the ground.  The incident finished when he picked it up again.  What
> happened before, what happened after, have no relevance to the
> issue.  The state of the game at the time also has no relevance to
> the issue either.

So you are telling me that the incident would have just blown over if
SA had won by a few runs? Who knows. The context of the incident is
important in my view. If Hansie did not need to cheat, why would he
cheat?

Quote:
> One could say exactly the same thing about Mike Atherton before the
> dirt-in-the-pocket incident.

Ah, but he is English. (A Joke! A Joke!)

Quote:
> In this case it's the Australian media, and the issue went away pretty
> quickly indicating the cricket-mad Aussies didn't care.

Good.

Quote:
> |> Of course not, don't be silly.

> Good, then we agree on something!

> One further question:  we both agree that Hansie did not cheat.
> However, do you think the issue should have been raised in the
> first place?  I do.  I think there was sufficient evidence to
> require the point to be addressed, and to give Hansie a chance
> to give his side of the events and to say what really happened.

My initial posting was in reaction to someone scoffing at Hansie's
response, refusing to believe that he might indeed be telling the
truth. In fact, here are his exact words:

Quote:

> and did u hear his pathetic excuse? "i was playing with it..."
> HA!! Cronje you got caught fair and square, but dont worry, the cricket
> authorities would be too spineless to do anyfink about...

If someone is indeed caught cheating, it should be brought to
attention. My entire post was expressing my indignation that someone
was calling Hansie a lier, as well as a cheat, when I feel he is
extremely honest.

I remember a few years back when SA were playing Aus (I think)
in SA. Hansie hit a big shot in the air to long-off, and it was caught
on the boundry. The third ump was called to see if the fielder had put
his foot over the boundry, and we could see that he hadn't. The
third-ump said not-out (now *there* is a genuine scandal). Hansie
asked the fielder if he had stepped over the line, and the fielder
replied that he had not. Hansie then walked off the field, despite the
ump's decision.

An act of a dishonest man?

I think I will stop talking about this subject now, we are just going
to start beating a dead horse and trying to catch each other out
verbally (which I am no good at).

--
Paul Morrison