All time ODO batting line-ups

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:18:39


Was wondering where India's current line-up would rank in an all time
great ODO batting line-ups.

'79 WI : Greenidge-Haynes-Viv-Kali-Lloyd-King-Murray

early-mid 80's WI :
Greenidge-Haynes-Richardson-Viv-Lloyd/Gomes-Gomes/Logie-Dujon

mid 80s Ind : Srikkanth-Shastri-Azza-Vengsarkar-Amarnath-Gavaskar-Kapil

'87 Ind : Srikkanth-Gavaskar-Siddhu-Azza-Vengsarkar-Kapil-More/Prabhakar

mid 80s Pak : Rameez-Mudassar-Malik-Miandad-Ijaz-Imran-Yousuf/Wasim

late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

mid-late 90s Aus :
Gilchrist-Waugh-Blewett/Pawning-Pawning/Martyn-Waugh-Bevan-Martyn/Lehmann

mid-late 90s SL :
Jayasuriya-Kalu-Gurusinha/Mahela-Aravinda-Ranatunga-Mahanama/Tilakaratne-Tilakaratne/Arnold

mid-late 90's Pak :
Anwar-Sohail-Ijaz-Inzy-Yousuf-Afridi-Mehmood/Razzaq/Latif/Moin

early-mid 00's Aus :
Gilchrist-Hayden-Pawning-Martyn-Bevan-symonds-Warne/Lee/Harvey

early-mid 00's Ind : Buddha-Viru-Dada-Lax/Mongia-Rahul-Yuvi-Kaif

mid-late 00's Aus : Gilchrist-Hayden-Pawning-Hussey-Clarke-Symonds-Watson

mid-late 00's Ind : Buddha-Viru-Rahul-Yuvi-Kaif/Raina-Dhoni-Irfan

mid-late 00's Saffer : Gibbs-Smith-Kallis-Prince/Kemp-Boucher-Pollock

current Ind : Buddha-Viru-Gauti-Virat-Yuvi-Dhoni-Raina/Yusuf

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Andrew B » Sat, 30 Apr 2011 06:45:23


Quote:
> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by higg » Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:13:17


Quote:
> Was wondering where India's current line-up would rank in an all time
> great ODO batting line-ups.

> '79 WI : Greenidge-Haynes-Viv-Kali-Lloyd-King-Murray

> early-mid 80's WI :
> Greenidge-Haynes-Richardson-Viv-Lloyd/Gomes-Gomes/Logie-Dujon

> mid 80s Ind : Srikkanth-Shastri-Azza-Vengsarkar-Amarnath-Gavaskar-Kapil

> '87 Ind : Srikkanth-Gavaskar-Siddhu-Azza-Vengsarkar-Kapil-More/Prabhakar

> mid 80s Pak : Rameez-Mudassar-Malik-Miandad-Ijaz-Imran-Yousuf/Wasim

> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> mid-late 90s Aus :
> Gilchrist-Waugh-Blewett/Pawning-Pawning/Martyn-Waugh-Bevan-Martyn/Lehmann

> mid-late 90s SL :
> Jayasuriya-Kalu-Gurusinha/Mahela-Aravinda-Ranatunga-Mahanama/Tilakaratne-Ti-lakaratne/Arnold

> mid-late 90's Pak :
> Anwar-Sohail-Ijaz-Inzy-Yousuf-Afridi-Mehmood/Razzaq/Latif/Moin

> early-mid 00's Aus :
> Gilchrist-Hayden-Pawning-Martyn-Bevan-symonds-Warne/Lee/Harvey

> early-mid 00's Ind : Buddha-Viru-Dada-Lax/Mongia-Rahul-Yuvi-Kaif

> mid-late 00's Aus : Gilchrist-Hayden-Pawning-Hussey-Clarke-Symonds-Watson

> mid-late 00's Ind : Buddha-Viru-Rahul-Yuvi-Kaif/Raina-Dhoni-Irfan

> mid-late 00's Saffer : Gibbs-Smith-Kallis-Prince/Kemp-Boucher-Pollock

> current Ind : Buddha-Viru-Gauti-Virat-Yuvi-Dhoni-Raina/Yusuf

Is this really a list of all-time ODO batting lineups?

It seems to be rather top heavy with Indian teams

Higgs

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sun, 01 May 2011 00:56:58

Quote:


>> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
> India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
> perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
> Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
tour of India in 93.

Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
when it mattered during that whole period.

92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
and that was it!

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Andrew B » Sun, 01 May 2011 03:12:39


Quote:
> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> and that was it!

I remember a few odds and ends from that tournament: Larkins getting a
hundred after Border had scored a brutal 80; Chetan Sharma, of all
people, rattling up 100 to beat us; though I'd forgotten Gooch taking
3-19 against Pakistan... the semi was going quite well for England
until Saleem Malik ran amok, as he did in the final.

Simple reason why Viv didn't give it to a quick - they'd all bowled
their 10 overs by then! (Unless you meant "why he hadn't kept one of
them back", in which case Wisden/Cricinfo just says "Richards's
earlier decision to bowl out his front-line attack in a bid to stop
Pakistan's dynamic advance had left him with no option but to bowl the
final over himself.")

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by prabh » Sun, 01 May 2011 04:34:40


Quote:


> >> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> > Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
> > India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
> > perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
> > Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

> Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
> kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
> tour of India in 93.

> Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
> first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

> And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
> did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
> they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
> when it mattered during that whole period.

According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
wilted.

Quote:
> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> and that was it!

The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters. Raza survived the
pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by prabh » Sun, 01 May 2011 04:43:14


Quote:



> > >> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> > > Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
> > > India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
> > > perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
> > > Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

> > Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
> > kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
> > tour of India in 93.

> > Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
> > first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

> > And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
> > did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
> > they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
> > when it mattered during that whole period.

> According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
> overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
> stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
> World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
> Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
> While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
> wilted.

> > 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> > original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> > 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> > happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> > the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> > and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> > some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> > instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> > and that was it!

> The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
> both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
> running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
> at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
> well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
> boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
> Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
> DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
> SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
> Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
> was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
> back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
> himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
> the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
> cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

> I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
> balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
> 71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
> of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
> strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
> Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
> and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
> headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters. Raza survived the
> pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

> Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
> saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
> fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

BTW, Miandad was ***in this tournament. Plus, those days while
chasing, if you enter the 41st over needing run a ball, it usually
meant you've made a mess of the chase. 2 to 3 dot balls per over was
the norm, even in the death.
 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sun, 01 May 2011 05:26:14

Quote:


>> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
>> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
>> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
>> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
>> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
>> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
>> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
>> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
>> and that was it!

> I remember a few odds and ends from that tournament: Larkins getting a
> hundred after Border had scored a brutal 80; Chetan Sharma, of all
> people, rattling up 100 to beat us;

LOL...I remember the next day in school there was this rumor going
around that it seems Gooch had to say something to Srikkanth and
Srikkanth said, "OK I'll have a bet with you and show you that even
Chetan Sharma can score a hundred" and hence sent him up the order. Ah
the innocence of a child!

  though I'd forgotten Gooch taking

Quote:
> 3-19 against Pakistan... the semi was going quite well for England
> until Saleem Malik ran amok, as he did in the final.

> Simple reason why Viv didn't give it to a quick - they'd all bowled
> their 10 overs by then! (Unless you meant "why he hadn't kept one of
> them back", in which case Wisden/Cricinfo just says "Richards's
> earlier decision to bowl out his front-line attack in a bid to stop
> Pakistan's dynamic advance had left him with no option but to bowl the
> final over himself.")

In hind sight probably I was too *** Viv for that. I remember
shouting at the TV and complaining to me dad that Viv shouldn't
bowl...dad was trying to explain something to me then...guess he tried
to tell me the quicks had finished their quota.

But even then I think there were non-regular half-quicks in that team
too...if I am not mistaken Phillo Simmunnssss was also there?

Yep...just confirmed...he was...Richards bowled Haynes but not Simmons!!!!
http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by prabh » Sun, 01 May 2011 05:47:38


Quote:


> >> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> >> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> >> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> >> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> >> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> >> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> >> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> >> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> >> and that was it!

> > I remember a few odds and ends from that tournament: Larkins getting a
> > hundred after Border had scored a brutal 80; Chetan Sharma, of all
> > people, rattling up 100 to beat us;

> LOL...I remember the next day in school there was this rumor going
> around that it seems Gooch had to say something to Srikkanth and
> Srikkanth said, "OK I'll have a bet with you and show you that even
> Chetan Sharma can score a hundred" and hence sent him up the order. Ah
> the innocence of a child!

> ? though I'd forgotten Gooch taking

> > 3-19 against Pakistan... the semi was going quite well for England
> > until Saleem Malik ran amok, as he did in the final.

> > Simple reason why Viv didn't give it to a quick - they'd all bowled
> > their 10 overs by then! (Unless you meant "why he hadn't kept one of
> > them back", in which case Wisden/Cricinfo just says "Richards's
> > earlier decision to bowl out his front-line attack in a bid to stop
> > Pakistan's dynamic advance had left him with no option but to bowl the
> > final over himself.")

> In hind sight probably I was too *** Viv for that. I remember
> shouting at the TV and complaining to me dad that Viv shouldn't
> bowl...dad was trying to explain something to me then...guess he tried
> to tell me the quicks had finished their quota.

> But even then I think there were non-regular half-quicks in that team
> too...if I am not mistaken Phillo Simmunnssss was also there?

> Yep...just confirmed...he was...Richards bowled Haynes but not Simmons!!!!http://SportToday.org/

> - Show quoted text -

Simmons did not became a bowling regular till dec 1992. He would get
an over or two but was too wayward.
 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sun, 01 May 2011 05:53:32

Quote:




>>>> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

>>> Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
>>> India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
>>> perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
>>> Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

>> Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
>> kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
>> tour of India in 93.

>> Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
>> first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

>> And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
>> did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
>> they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
>> when it mattered during that whole period.

> According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
> overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
> stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
> World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
> Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
> While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
> wilted.

>> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
>> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
>> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
>> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
>> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
>> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
>> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
>> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
>> and that was it!

> The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
> both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
> running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
> at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
> well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
> boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
> Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
> DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
> SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
> Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
> was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
> back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
> himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
> the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
> cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

> I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
> balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
> 71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
> of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
> strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
> Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
> and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
> headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters.

I am not sure about the real truth whether Imran really thought that way
but I am more than willing to believe it to be so...legends like these
leave absolutely no doubt in my mind (until the moment the doubt returns
lol) that the Niazi was the greatest cricketer ever...and he scores over
Gary Sobers because of his captaincy for me. The pathan knew how to make
a team win a game! And in Miandad he had the street smart tactician.

I read an article a year or so back by Osman Samiuddin (if I am not
wrong) about how Imran and Javed came together for the greater cause of
the Pak team despite their internal politics. And that lot of Imran's
success as a captain is because of the tactical nous of Javed on the
field..the field placements, how to attack whom, etc

  Raza survived the

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

> Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
> saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
> fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sun, 01 May 2011 05:57:31

Quote:





>>>>> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

>>>> Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
>>>> India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
>>>> perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
>>>> Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

>>> Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
>>> kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
>>> tour of India in 93.

>>> Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
>>> first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

>>> And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
>>> did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
>>> they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
>>> when it mattered during that whole period.

>> According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
>> overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
>> stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
>> World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
>> Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
>> While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
>> wilted.

>>> 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
>>> original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
>>> 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
>>> happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
>>> the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
>>> and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
>>> some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
>>> instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
>>> and that was it!

>> The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
>> both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
>> running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
>> at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
>> well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
>> boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
>> Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
>> DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
>> SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
>> Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
>> was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
>> back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
>> himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
>> the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
>> cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

>> I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
>> balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
>> 71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
>> of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
>> strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
>> Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
>> and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
>> headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters. Raza survived the
>> pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

>> Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
>> saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
>> fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.- Hide quoted text -

>> - Show quoted text -

> BTW, Miandad was ***in this tournament. Plus, those days while
> chasing, if you enter the 41st over needing run a ball, it usually
> meant you've made a mess of the chase. 2 to 3 dot balls per over was
> the norm, even in the death.

That brings an almost photographic memory into my mind now...me sitting
fully relaxed as SL needed 84 runs off 96 balls to beat India. I was
like 84 in 96...no way it is possible! Man those were the days. I
remember the last over SL needed 8 to win and Kapsy came into bowl the
last one duly and restrict SL...he picked some 3 wickets in that game I
think
 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Andrew B » Sun, 01 May 2011 06:11:33


Quote:
> According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
> overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
> stressed out and burnt out coming into the final.

Or alternatively Botham was a lazy sod who resented being made to
practise, and (not for the only time) blamed someone else when he
failed.
 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Vija » Sun, 01 May 2011 06:52:16

Quote:


>> According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
>> overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
>> stressed out and burnt out coming into the final.

> Or alternatively Botham was a lazy sod who resented being made to
> practise, and (not for the only time) blamed someone else when he
> failed.

I recently heard stewart(?) claim the same in the cricinfo's espnstar
video series of how we won the world cup thingy just before the world
cup. There seemed to a general feeling in the team that they were tired
by the time they reached the final. Having said that, it could be one of
those 'oh the fault is not ours' kinda excuses that England was just
starting to discover...which I think is the main reason for them being
really mediocre almost suddenly in the 90s.

but you are also right that England could not have been all that
tired...if I am not mistaken the Indian team and Aussie teams were most
tired then...both had a grueling 5 test series and endless tri-series
just before the world cup, The Indian team did not even come back home
between the Aus tour and WC to rejuvenate. So relatively England were
less tired.

In any case they deserved to win the cup if Pak did not pull off that
heist...can't think that Pak was lucky to win the cup...they were lucky
to not lose to England in the league game but the last few games they
pulled off a perfect heist full-on Paki style!

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by Jaye » Sun, 01 May 2011 18:41:04


Quote:




> > > >> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> > > > Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
> > > > India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
> > > > perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
> > > > Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

> > > Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
> > > kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
> > > tour of India in 93.

> > > Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
> > > first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

> > > And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
> > > did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
> > > they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
> > > when it mattered during that whole period.

> > According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
> > overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
> > stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
> > World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
> > Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
> > While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
> > wilted.

> > > 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> > > original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> > > 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> > > happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> > > the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> > > and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> > > some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> > > instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> > > and that was it!

> > The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
> > both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
> > running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
> > at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
> > well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
> > boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
> > Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
> > DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
> > SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
> > Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
> > was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
> > back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
> > himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
> > the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
> > cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

> > I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
> > balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
> > 71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
> > of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
> > strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
> > Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
> > and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
> > headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters. Raza survived the
> > pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

> > Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
> > saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
> > fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> BTW, Miandad was ***in this tournament. Plus, those days while
> chasing, if you enter the 41st over needing run a ball, it usually
> meant you've made a mess of the chase. 2 to 3 dot balls per over was
> the norm, even in the death.

I am not sure of this.

In the seventies and early eighties, especially with 60 over matches,
the whole point seemed to be to retain wickets for an almighty bash at
the end. In the EvWI 1979 WC final, England were 79 for no loss in 25
overs while chasing 290 or so and, according to Phil Edmonds, received
the congratulations of the team during the tea break with the asking
rate already being a run-a-ball. It seemed to be the expectation that
Botham and others could biff their way to the target in the final
overs. In the EvI 1983 WC semi-final, India was 110 while chasing 214
in the 40th over when Amarnath was runout. Sandeep Patil ensured that
the total was reached in the 55th over or so.

Quite obviously the approach was error-prone and it was sometime later
that the strategy for how to pace a chase in an ODO was worked out. At
any rate, a run-a-ball in the last ten overs would not have been
considered insurmountable.

Regards,
Jayen

 
 
 

All time ODO batting line-ups

Post by prabh » Mon, 02 May 2011 07:14:07


Quote:





> > > > >> late 80s-early 90's Eng : Gooch-Stewart-Smith-Gatting-Hick-Fairbrother-Lewis

> > > > > Lamb in place of Gatting (I know Gatting returned in the 1993 tour of
> > > > > India, but Lamb was the better ODI batsman). That 1992 WC side line-up
> > > > > perhaps wasn't outstanding, but they had a pretty strong tail, with
> > > > > Reeve/DeFreitas/Pringle to follow.

> > > > Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about Lamb but by the early 90s he was
> > > > kinda done. I don't think he was there in that Kumble-Kambli devastation
> > > > tour of India in 93.

> > > > Among all of them, I used to like Fairbrother a lot....when I saw Jonty
> > > > first he reminded of Fairbrother...his profile.

> > > > And i agree with the tail...it's very surprising that, that English team
> > > > did not win anything major given that they had a solid team. I thought
> > > > they deserved to win the 92 cup but somehow they just could not beat Pak
> > > > when it mattered during that whole period.

> > > According to Botham's autobiography, Gooch and Mickey stewart simply
> > > overworked the team in the nets and in practice. They were way too
> > > stressed out and burnt out coming into the final. Gooch dropped the
> > > World cup around the 22nd over when he missed a desperate skier from
> > > Imran. SAF did not have the ammo to stretch England in the semis.
> > > While Pakistan had the men to give it a shot in the final and Eng
> > > wilted.

> > > > 92 world cup was a deja vu as far as Pak-Eng were concerned. The
> > > > original was the Nehru Cup of 89 when Pak were bundled out for less than
> > > > 150 in the league game by England and Eng won it (almost same thing
> > > > happened in 92 just that it rained and Pak escaped). But come the semis
> > > > the Pakis just rose their game up and beat England pretty convincingly
> > > > and the finals was an even deadly one which went into the last over with
> > > > some 9 runs needed I think and I was annoyed why Viv bowled himself
> > > > instead of giving it to a quick...Wasim launched him into the Eden crowd
> > > > and that was it!

> > > The real challenge for Pak was in the league when they had to beat
> > > both SL and India back to back and with a decent run rate to avoid
> > > running into India in the semis. At Lucknow vs SL, they were tottering
> > > at 70 for 4 in about 25 overs. Imran had to squirrel out the runs as
> > > well as hold one end up. They did incredible amounts of running(just 8
> > > boundaries for the innings, Akram 29 off 29, 0x4, 0x6). I recollect
> > > Imran collecting 2 braces of the last 2 balls of the innings.
> > > DD broke off for the India-Australia game and got back to Lucknow with
> > > SL needing about 30-35 to win at run a ball and 8 wickets in hand.
> > > Qadir had been pretty useless against Tillekeratne and Aravinda and
> > > was taken out of the attack. After those two got out, he was brought
> > > back but was hammered by Mahanama for a huge six. Fatatunga got
> > > himself run out, Qadir bamboozled Mahanama off the last ball and in
> > > the next over, Akram yorked Ratnayake and Labrooy, Ashocker was
> > > cluelessly run out and SL collapsed(26/8)

> > > I only saw the last 10 overs of the final. Pak needed 51 off 60
> > > balls(achievable but no means easy those days) with Malik batting on
> > > 71 off 61 balls. Ambrose got him first ball, Akram Raza came in ahead
> > > of Akram to join Imran which surprised me. Imran gave most of the
> > > strike to Raza and they worked singles for a few overs. I guess
> > > Imran's idea was to make the tailender get used to nudges and pushes
> > > and play himself in for the crunch, as opposed to a running like a
> > > headless chicken(SAF-Aus WC99 SF) when it matters. Raza survived the
> > > pacemen which was important. 9 needed off the final over.

> > > Sportstar mentioned Richards coming down very *** a journalist for
> > > saying it was a mistake on Richards part to bowl the 50th...it was a
> > > fast outfield and the faster you bowled, the more you bled.- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -

> > BTW, Miandad was ***in this tournament. Plus, those days while
> > chasing, if you enter the 41st over needing run a ball, it usually
> > meant you've made a mess of the chase. 2 to 3 dot balls per over was
> > the norm, even in the death.

> I am not sure of this.

> In the seventies and early eighties, especially with 60 over matches,
> the whole point seemed to be to retain wickets for an almighty bash at
> the end. In the EvWI 1979 WC final, England were 79 for no loss in 25
> overs while chasing 290 or so and, according to Phil Edmonds, received
> the congratulations of the team during the tea break with the asking
> rate already being a run-a-ball. It seemed to be the expectation that
> Botham and others could biff their way to the target in the final
> overs. In the EvI 1983 WC semi-final, India was 110 while chasing 214
> in the 40th over when Amarnath was runout. Sandeep Patil ensured that
> the total was reached in the 55th over or so.

I've had several misgivings about my intial premise too. For instance,
the 1983 WC saw an insane amount of runs being scored in the final
overs, often at around 7.5 to 8 an over. I've wondered if part of the
reason was that on English wickets(especially while batting first),
there was tremendous help for the bowlers and a team that loses 3-4
wickets early on could practically be out of the game, so maybe teams
were firm on blocking early on.

We dont have over by over scorecards for most 80s games but looking at
what were construed as 'miraculous chases', one could gauge what is a
gettable asking rate and what is not. For eg.

Pak vs Ind, Sharjah 1986, 51 off 30 (Req rate 10.xx)
SL vs Ind, Sharjah 1990, 106 needed of 78 balls(Req rate 8.xx)
Eng vs WI, Gujranwala 1987, 147 off 138 balls(Req rate 6.xx), later 35
off 18 balls.

Nothing really conclusive about these numbers here but one may safely
say anything over 8.xx meant the bowling side was ahead.

My sceptism about Pakistan's chances in the Nehru Cup final chase
largely comes from this game:
http://SportToday.org/

Pakistan needed 64 off 60 balls with 5 wickets and at no point did I
feel they were ahead since one accurate yorker from Curtley was all
that WI needed to wrap up the game. And he obliged with four of them
in his 10 overs.