"Spirit of the game"

"Spirit of the game"

Post by wedge3.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:04:18


Let me get this straight, racial abuse, leaving gloves in the dressing
sheds, standing around when you edge it to second slip and Sharma
again standing when he edged to slip is all eclipsed by Ponting
claiming a catch he took which was wrongly given not out.

LOL

Piss off home you sooks.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Dave -Turne » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:46:12

Harbhajan is the only player to have been charged in this game, which
reaffirms what Anil Kumble said - only one side played within the spirit of
the game.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by kiwicric.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:42:59


Quote:
> Harbhajan is the only player to have been charged in this game, which
> reaffirms what Anil Kumble said - only one side played within the spirit of
> the game.

Hogg has also been charged.  And while you are at it, why don't you
look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
by the ICC as a cheat.

Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
"completion" act, he loses control.

Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
for the Rashid catch.

Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender.  He did this just
two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

Over to you.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by kiwicric.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:44:20


Quote:

> > Harbhajan is the only player to have been charged in this game, which
> > reaffirms what Anil Kumble said - only one side played within the spirit of
> > the game.

> Hogg has also been charged. ?And while you are at it, why don't you
> look at this:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

> This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
> by the ICC as a cheat.

> Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
> first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
> "completion" act, he loses control.

> Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
> Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
> The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
> the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

> Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
> for the Rashid catch.

> Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender. ?He did this just
> two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

> Over to you.

Sorry, forgot to provide you with a link:

http://cricketsbestvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/cricket-video-india-vs...

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by kiwicric.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:50:40


Quote:


> > > Harbhajan is the only player to have been charged in this game, which
> > > reaffirms what Anil Kumble said - only one side played within the spirit of
> > > the game.

> > Hogg has also been charged. ?And while you are at it, why don't you
> > look at this:

> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

> > This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
> > by the ICC as a cheat.

> > Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
> > first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
> > "completion" act, he loses control.

> > Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
> > Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
> > The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
> > the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

> > Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
> > for the Rashid catch.

> > Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender. ?He did this just
> > two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

> > Over to you.

> Sorry, forgot to provide you with a link:

> http://cricketsbestvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/cricket-video-india-vs... Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Oh, this is not just for Dave but for everyone.  Look at the two
videos very carefully.  The first oen sets a rough standard for what
is considered cheating.  Now take a look at the claims by Ponting and
Clarke in the second video.   If you think they should not be labeled
cheats based on the standard in the first, you need to explain why.
 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Ian Galbrait » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:04:35

[snip]

Quote:
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

>>> This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
>>> by the ICC as a cheat.

>>> Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
>>> first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
>>> "completion" act, he loses control.

>>> Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
>>> Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
>>> The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
>>> the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

>>> Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
>>> for the Rashid catch.

>>> Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender. ?He did this just
>>> two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

>>> Over to you.

>> Sorry, forgot to provide you with a link:

>> http://cricketsbestvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/cricket-video-india-vs... Hide quoted text -

>> - Show quoted text -

> Oh, this is not just for Dave but for everyone.  Look at the two
> videos very carefully.  The first oen sets a rough standard for what
> is considered cheating.  Now take a look at the claims by Ponting and
> Clarke in the second video.   If you think they should not be labeled
> cheats based on the standard in the first, you need to explain why.

The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
Ponting.

--
"We just don't recognise the most significant moments of our lives while
they're happening. At the time I thought there'd be other days. I didn't
realise that that was the only day." - Field of Dreams.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by kiwicric.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:07:38


Quote:



> [snip]

> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

> >>> This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
> >>> by the ICC as a cheat.

> >>> Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
> >>> first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
> >>> "completion" act, he loses control.

> >>> Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
> >>> Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
> >>> The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
> >>> the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

> >>> Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
> >>> for the Rashid catch.

> >>> Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender. ?He did this just
> >>> two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

> >>> Over to you.

> >> Sorry, forgot to provide you with a link:

> >>http://cricketsbestvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/cricket-video-india-vs... quoted text -

> >> - Show quoted text -

> > Oh, this is not just for Dave but for everyone. ?Look at the two
> > videos very carefully. ?The first oen sets a rough standard for what
> > is considered cheating. ?Now take a look at the claims by Ponting and
> > Clarke in the second video. ? If you think they should not be labeled
> > cheats based on the standard in the first, you need to explain why.

> The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
> he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
> Ponting.

> --
> "We just don't recognise the most significant moments of our lives while
> they're happening. At the time I thought there'd be other days. I didn't
> realise that that was the only day." - Field of Dreams.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

The law makes no distinction between a ball dropped to the ground and
picked up and a ball grounded in the act of catching.  Both are not
catches.  You have to really try harder and come up with a better
response.
 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Ian Galbrait » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:50:47

[snip]

Quote:
>> The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
>> he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
>> Ponting.
> The law makes no distinction between a ball dropped to the ground and
> picked up and a ball grounded in the act of catching.  Both are not
> catches.  You have to really try harder and come up with a better
> response.

You should note that I'm talking about whether it was reasonable for the
Australians to claim the catches and the fact that they were not
cheating. What you're talking about is the finer points of the law which
is up to the umpire to adjudicate. they may not be catches under the
exact definition of the law, it doesn't make the Australians cheats for
claiming them.

--
"I'm not an ***! I don't want to create responsible shows with lawyers
in them. I want to invade people's dreams." - Joss Whedon

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Geoff Muldoo » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:54:01


Quote:

> > The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
> > he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
> > Ponting.
> The law makes no distinction between a ball dropped to the ground and
> picked up and a ball grounded in the act of catching.  Both are not
> catches.  You have to really try harder and come up with a better
> response.

The law makes a distinction between appealing when you clearly know you
haven't taken a catch, and appealing when you think you might have.  One
is a penalisable offence and the other isn't.  You have to really try
harder and come up with a better argument.

GM

PS. The All Blacks are chokers.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by dechuck » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:11:51



Quote:

> > Harbhajan is the only player to have been charged in this game, which
> > reaffirms what Anil Kumble said - only one side played within the spirit
> > of
> > the game.

> Hogg has also been charged. And while you are at it, why don't you
> look at this:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mk74srFVb4&mode=related&search=

> This is the catch that Rashid Latif claimed for which he was charged
> by the ICC as a cheat.

> Look where he drops the ball, picks up, and claimes the catch -- the
> first phase of the catch, he has full control, but during the
> "completion" act, he loses control.

> Now, take a look at Ponting's catch in this, and Clarke's as well.
> Look specifically at Clarke's, around roughly the 1:51 second mark.
> The guy actually loses control, puts the ball on the ground, and uses
> the grounded ball as a pivot and gets up to appeal!

> Now tell me why this is not cheating, applying the same standards as
> for the Rashid catch.

> Oh, by the way, your guy Pup is a repeat offender. He did this just
> two weeks ago in the one-day game against Hopkins.

> Over to you.

Sorry, forgot to provide you with a link:

http://cricketsbestvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/cricket-video-india-vs...

try another link for the Clark catch this one won't work anymore

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by kiwicric.. » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:35:45


Quote:
> In article <7870f868-e540-441c-8931-7e6caa216581


> > > The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
> > > he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
> > > Ponting.
> > The law makes no distinction between a ball dropped to the ground and
> > picked up and a ball grounded in the act of catching. ?Both are not
> > catches. ?You have to really try harder and come up with a better
> > response.

> The law makes a distinction between appealing when you clearly know you
> haven't taken a catch, and appealing when you think you might have. ?One
> is a penalisable offence and the other isn't. ?You have to really try
> harder and come up with a better argument.

> GM

> PS. The All Blacks are chokers.

Exactly, except that you are missing the point of what is being said.
The initial claim made by the Aussie nettors was that it was a clean
catch, now we have conclusively shown both subject were not "clean".
So, the discussion is about whether the claims constitute sharp
practice including intent to mislead the umpire.  Now, the response
has turned into oh, they did not know it touched the ground, so it is
not a penalisable offence.

Just ask yourself:  On the face of it, do you honestly believe Clarke
did not know the ball touched the ground?  I mean he used the ball to
get up!  You think no one else fielding around him noticed this?  Why
do you think the replay focuses more on this portion?  You have got to
be kidding me if your claim is that Clarke did not know that the ball
touched the ground.  The guy claimed to be***-sure that he had
caught the ball clean when we know he had not, when Saurav Ganguly
knew he had not, and in spite of the evidence you want us to take his
word on it?  How does the MR or umpire even know what Clarke knows or
does not know until an inquiry is held?

What about the case two weeks back against NZ in the one-day game off
Hopkins?  That was clear cut as any.  In many people's opinion, Clarke
is a suspect when it comes to catches -- serial offenders don't
deserve any benefit of doubt.

By now you should also know that many similar cases had cheating
charges successfully placed on them, and I don't see a reason why this
should be any different.

You can try and pull over some people's eyes, but the world is
watching.  In any case, the least Ponting can do is to sincerely
apologize for claiming both the catches when they did not carry, even
if he claims that he was not aware at the time they were taken the
ball had been grounded.  What did he do?  He claims the ball was not
grounded even though the evidence is to the contrary and took off on a
reporter who suggested that his claim was off a grounded ball -- why?
Guilt?  What is this guy's credibility now?  Why should the world
believe him?

I can hear a chorus of exhortions from the Aussie nettors demanding an
apology from Ponting.  NOT!!

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Geoff Muldoo » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:08:23


Quote:

> > In article <7870f868-e540-441c-8931-7e6caa216581


> > > > The ball from Lateef actually dropped out of his hands to the ground and
> > > > he picked it up, at no stage did that happen with either Clarke or
> > > > Ponting.
> > > The law makes no distinction between a ball dropped to the ground and
> > > picked up and a ball grounded in the act of catching. ?Both are not
> > > catches. ?You have to really try harder and come up with a better
> > > response.

> > The law makes a distinction between appealing when you clearly know you
> > haven't taken a catch, and appealing when you think you might have. ?One
> > is a penalisable offence and the other isn't. ?You have to really try
> > harder and come up with a better argument.

> > GM

> > PS. The All Blacks are chokers.

> Exactly, except that you are missing the point of what is being said.
> The initial claim made by the Aussie nettors was that it was a clean
> catch, now we have conclusively shown both subject were not "clean".

I've seen no conclusive evidence full stop on the Clarke one.

Quote:
> So, the discussion is about whether the claims constitute sharp
> practice including intent to mislead the umpire.  Now, the response
> has turned into oh, they did not know it touched the ground, so it is
> not a penalisable offence.

> Just ask yourself:  On the face of it, do you honestly believe Clarke
> did not know the ball touched the ground?  

I am not certain he either did or didn't, being no mind reader.

Quote:
> I mean he used the ball to
> get up!  You think no one else fielding around him noticed this?  Why
> do you think the replay focuses more on this portion?  You have got to
> be kidding me if your claim is that Clarke did not know that the ball
> touched the ground.  The guy claimed to be***-sure that he had
> caught the ball clean when we know he had not, when Saurav Ganguly
> knew he had not, and in spite of the evidence you want us to take his
> word on it?  How does the MR or umpire even know what Clarke knows or
> does not know until an inquiry is held?

Don't you understand the laws?  OK, (if) he uses the ball and/or the hand
holding the ball as a prop to regain his feet, then he had per se control
over his movements, and therefore the catch (if it was one) had already
been completed.

GM

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by R. Shake » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:45:07

Quote:
> You should note that I'm talking about whether it was reasonable for the
> Australians to claim the catches and the fact that they were not
> cheating. What you're talking about is the finer points of the law which
> is up to the umpire to adjudicate. they may not be catches under the
> exact definition of the law, it doesn't make the Australians cheats for
> claiming them.

Well, it kind of would, Ian. The deal with this particular series is
that the players' word is taken to be the truth, so if there's any
doubt in a player's mind then they basically need to tell the umpire
'i'm honestly not too sure'. Players know full well that if a catch
gets referred to the third then it's highly unlikely to be given out.
Let's not dilly-dally, these decisions did cost India a very important
test match, but whether grievances about sportsmanship are valid or
not is not going to change the conscience of Australian cricketers.
We'll choose to just get on with it and keep on smashing these poor
little Indians.

I thought it was funny how Kumble referred to Clarke*** around
after hitting it to slip, but Ishant Sharma did the exact same on the
final delivery of the game. That IS a short memory.

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Ian Galbrait » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:06:39

Quote:

>> You should note that I'm talking about whether it was reasonable for the
>> Australians to claim the catches and the fact that they were not
>> cheating. What you're talking about is the finer points of the law which
>> is up to the umpire to adjudicate. they may not be catches under the
>> exact definition of the law, it doesn't make the Australians cheats for
>> claiming them.
> Well, it kind of would, Ian. The deal with this particular series is
> that the players' word is taken to be the truth, so if there's any
> doubt in a player's mind then they basically need to tell the umpire
> 'i'm honestly not too sure'.

But if it involves a highly technical definition as these do then I
wouldn't be surprised if the players are ignorant of the finer points of
the law. Which is exactly why Ponting's call for batsmen to respect the
word of the fielders is absurd, dunno why Kimble agreed to it either.

[snip]

--
"She made me feel like a human being. That's not the kind of thing you
just forgive." - Angel, Buffy The Vampire Slayer

 
 
 

"Spirit of the game"

Post by Ian Galbrait » Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:06:44

[snip]

Quote:
> Exactly, except that you are missing the point of what is being said.
> The initial claim made by the Aussie nettors was that it was a clean
> catch,

Not really I and I think others have been defending the integrity of the
Australians.

Quote:
> now we have conclusively shown both subject were not "clean".

Bullshit. Ponting yes, but I for one have never denied that and only
discussed whether his appeal was cheating or not. Clarke I think probably
was legitimate. In my previous post I made a remark assuming it was not
legitimate because the question of legitimacy was not all that relevant
to my point.

Quote:
> So, the discussion is about whether the claims constitute sharp
> practice including intent to mislead the umpire.  Now, the response
> has turned into oh, they did not know it touched the ground, so it is
> not a penalisable offence.
> Just ask yourself:  On the face of it, do you honestly believe Clarke
> did not know the ball touched the ground?

For the bump ball side of it yes, experience has shown players often have
difficulty determining whether a catch is a bump ball or not. If this was
a bump ball it was one of the closest ever seen.

Quote:
> I mean he used the ball to
> get up!  You think no one else fielding around him noticed this?  

Of course not but the assumption is that by that time he had control of
it, a perfectly reasonable assumption.

[snip]

--
"We not run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite, Zathras
is finite. This...... is wrong tool." - Zathras, Babylon5