Ashes report cards - Australia

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Mike Holman » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:22:29


Hayden A+. Excellent. The only reliable way of getting him out is to
have him caught at deep backward square, and even if you bowl him the
ideal ball, ie a leg stump bouncer at just about shoulder height,
there's still only one chance in four that he'll hole out, so it's
going to take the average inaccurate English bowler about 80 runs to
buy his wicket.

Langer D++. The 250 at Melbourne was pretty awesome, but otherwise he
was pretty ineffectual despite the ropy English new ball bowling. To
be fair, he took over from Nasser Hussain as the man most likely to be
sawn off by umpires, but I expected much better from him.

Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
really anything very much to watch.

Martyn C-. Reminds me of a 50s-60s-style player: very correct, nice
shape to his shots, nothing too reckless, but not over-cautious, but
damned easy to set a field to, and not all that difficult to trap in
the gully.

Waugh E++. One significant innings in the series, albeit one of the
most theatrically staged and executed centuries in Test history. To
produce an innings like that while spending the whole of the rest of
the series looking like a bunny is eloquent testimony to the man's
amazing willpower, but it still looked like a spectacular tantrum
against the dying of the light than a reassertion of the batsman he
used to be.

Lehmann E. Failed once again to convince as a Test player.

Love C. Very nice debut innings and a brilliant slip fielder, but did
little at Sydney. Must have eased himself ahead of Lehmann.

Gilchrist A. The second-best wicketkeeper seen in the series, and as
dangerous with the bat as ever.

Warne A+. Looked to be in top-notch form until his unfortunate injury.
That English batsmen are no longer afraid of spin bowling in principle
mattered not one whit: they are still unable to take Warne on. There
may not quite be the fizz and rip there used to be, but the teasing
and the intelligence in his bowling is still majestic.

Lee B. In England, the Run Charity (tm) was a complete waste of space.
Here, though, he was considerably more effective. The WACA is clearly
his ideal ground, and he excelled there. Then there were his first two
or three overs at Sydney in I1, which was probably the best spell of
bowling by anyone in the series. Most of the rest of his bowling was
less threatening, but at least it wasn't the tripe he served up in
England.

Bichel C+. Playing for the wrong team. He's a craggy old guy, who
swings it some and gets it to do a bit off the pitch, and puts in
whole-hearted, honest effort. In other words, he's a classical English
seam bowler. How useful a classical English seam bowler is in an
Australian team must be somewhat questionable, although Damien Fleming
didn't do all that badly.

Gillespie C. It's a C as an average, for he was an A at the beginning
of the series and an E at the end. It was his ability to bowl
accurately at nearly 90mph which scuppered Trescothick, which was
crucial to getting England off to bad starts. In itself, that was a
vital contribution, but while he remained fully fit he was dangerous
to many more batsmen than Tresco.

McGrath A+. There is nothing to add to the list of superlatives
already showered on this great bowler.

MacGill D. There are apparently some people who think that MacGill is
serious competition for a fit Warne. I can only assume that they live
in some alternative reality. He turns the ball a lot more than Warne
usually does, but his length is erratic, and his line generally
unthreatening. Bowls four-balls with the regularity of Ian Salisbury.
His ineffectiveness, especially contrasted with Warne's supremacy, was
the main reason England won the Fifth Test.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Winston Churchil » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:05:49


Quote:
> Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
> react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
> very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
> really anything very much to watch.

You have expressed a sentiment here that I agree with very much but have
never really been able to explain. My rationale brain tells me that he could
be a candidate for anyones favourite player, but he doesn't do anything for
me. For someone who clearly lives life to the full, he seems strangely
bereft of any personality when batting. I'm always happy to see him get runs
and, as you say, he's clearly very good, but there are any number of other
batsmen that I'd rather watch.

cheers

Winny
==========
in office since 1997

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by samarth harish sha » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:22:36

Quote:



> > Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
> > react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
> > very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
> > really anything very much to watch.

> You have expressed a sentiment here that I agree with very much but have
> never really been able to explain. My rationale brain tells me that he could
> be a candidate for anyones favourite player, but he doesn't do anything for
> me. For someone who clearly lives life to the full, he seems strangely
> bereft of any personality when batting. I'm always happy to see him get runs
> and, as you say, he's clearly very good, but there are any number of other
> batsmen that I'd rather watch.

Ditto. Mike's described my thoughts perfectly.

-Samarth.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> cheers

> Winny
> ==========
> in office since 1997


 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Moby » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:37:11


Quote:


> > Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
> > react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
> > very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
> > really anything very much to watch.

> You have expressed a sentiment here that I agree with very much but have
> never really been able to explain.

I also tend to agree, unless the opposition continually bowls short.  He has
very pretty pull and hook shots, but rarely gets the chance to use them.

Moby

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Ian Galbrait » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:26:42

On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:22:29 +0000, Mike Holmans

[snip]

Quote:
>Langer D++. The 250 at Melbourne was pretty awesome, but otherwise he
>was pretty ineffectual despite the ropy English new ball bowling. To
>be fair, he took over from Nasser Hussain as the man most likely to be
>sawn off by umpires, but I expected much better from him.

His 250 plus the sticking around at the end in the second innings mean
he has to be rated higher than this. C+ maybe.

[snip]

Quote:
>Waugh E++. One significant innings in the series, albeit one of the
>most theatrically staged and executed centuries in Test history. To
>produce an innings like that while spending the whole of the rest of
>the series looking like a bunny is eloquent testimony to the man's
>amazing willpower, but it still looked like a spectacular tantrum
>against the dying of the light than a reassertion of the batsman he
>used to be.

He did produce a couple of other good innings, D+.

Quote:
>Lehmann E. Failed once again to convince as a Test player.
>Love C. Very nice debut innings and a brilliant slip fielder, but did
>little at Sydney. Must have eased himself ahead of Lehmann.

We can only hope, the media pundits aren't convinced though.

[snip]

Quote:
>Gillespie C. It's a C as an average, for he was an A at the beginning
>of the series and an E at the end. It was his ability to bowl
>accurately at nearly 90mph which scuppered Trescothick, which was
>crucial to getting England off to bad starts. In itself, that was a
>vital contribution, but while he remained fully fit he was dangerous
>to many more batsmen than Tresco.

I'd give him maybe a B-.

[snip]

--
Ian Galbraith

'I'm not an ***!'' he says, shaking his head. ''I don't want
to create responsible shows with lawyers in them. I want to invade
people's dreams.'' -Joss Whedon

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Rats » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:20:41

Quote:
> Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
> react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
> very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
> really anything very much to watch.

You reckon? I find Ponting to be a very aggressive player and I like the way
he is very active when at the crease. I think Ponting pulls and hooks
particularly well and his off/cover drivers are very nice as well.
 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by The Wo » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:27:29


Quote:


> > Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
> > react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
> > very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
> > really anything very much to watch.

> You have expressed a sentiment here that I agree with very much but have
> never really been able to explain. My rationale brain tells me that he
could
> be a candidate for anyones favourite player, but he doesn't do anything
for
> me. For someone who clearly lives life to the full, he seems strangely
> bereft of any personality when batting. I'm always happy to see him get
runs
> and, as you say, he's clearly very good, but there are any number of other
> batsmen that I'd rather watch.

You people are kidding. He's been typically scoring at a run a ball, front
and back foot, square or straight. He's a quick runner and can hit 6's. He's
the best exponent of the hook + pull, the most exciting bat-ball contest in
the game. And he's averaged well over 50 in recent times.

There may be more exciting players to watch in ODI's, Sehwag and Jayasuriya
are possibilities, but Ponting has batted like that in Tests!

So who are these batsmen you would rather watch anyway? This better be good.

Wog

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Bob Dube » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:39:33

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:22:36 -0600, samarth harish shah

Quote:

>Ditto. Mike's described my thoughts perfectly.

Fourthed.

I'm not going to say that Ponting's a ***player because he very
clearly isn't. But he's not a player that I've WANTED to watch. I WANT
to watch Gilchrist, or Hayden, or Tendulkar, or Kallis. I also WANTED
to watch Inzamam this season but he seldom got going and when he did
get going he'd very quickly do something stupid. I used to want to
watch Mark Waugh.

I don't have the same urge to watch Ponting. At least not Ponting the
batsman. Ponting the fielder is another matter.

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Colin Lor » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:03:22


Quote:
> Langer D++. The 250 at Melbourne was pretty awesome, but otherwise he
> was pretty ineffectual despite the ropy English new ball bowling. To
> be fair, he took over from Nasser Hussain as the man most likely to be
> sawn off by umpires, but I expected much better from him.

Langer lost his wickets with the scores on 67, 30, 114, 31, 195, 90, 56, 5.

As an openning batsman you want to see him taking the shine off the ball,
and those are reasonably good numbers, 5 being the only outright failure,
with 2 30s being less the optimal. He blunted the attack better than D++.

Quote:
> Lee B. In England, the Run Charity (tm) was a complete waste of space.
> Here, though, he was considerably more effective. The WACA is clearly
> his ideal ground, and he excelled there. Then there were his first two
> or three overs at Sydney in I1, which was probably the best spell of
> bowling by anyone in the series. Most of the rest of his bowling was
> less threatening, but at least it wasn't the tripe he served up in
> England.

I hope the "B" is meant to be his initial. He was less effective than
Caddick and far far worse than Gillespie.
 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Matt van de Werke » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:11:43

Quote:

> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:22:36 -0600, samarth harish shah

>>Ditto. Mike's described my thoughts perfectly.

> Fourthed.

> I'm not going to say that Ponting's a ***player because he very
> clearly isn't. But he's not a player that I've WANTED to watch. I WANT
> to watch Gilchrist, or Hayden, or Tendulkar, or Kallis. I also WANTED to
> watch Inzamam this season but he seldom got going and when he did get
> going he'd very quickly do something stupid. I used to want to watch
> Mark Waugh.

> I don't have the same urge to watch Ponting. At least not Ponting the
> batsman. Ponting the fielder is another matter.

It's funny you mention Kallis, because Kallis is someone who I;d describe
with almost the exact words Mike used for Ponting.

Cheers,
MvdW

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Jimb » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:37:58

Quote:

> Gilchrist A. The second-best wicketkeeper seen in the series, and as
> dangerous with the bat as ever.

2nd?  Three keepers were used, so he was the 3rd best :)
 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Mike Holman » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:06:57

Twas on Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:27:29 +1100 that "The Wog"

Quote:




>> > Ponting A. I find myself strangely unmoved by Punter's batting. I
>> > react to his batting much in the same way as Thorpe's: it's obviously
>> > very good, but it's not especially beautiful, exciting, gritty, or
>> > really anything very much to watch.

>> You have expressed a sentiment here that I agree with very much but have
>> never really been able to explain. My rationale brain tells me that he
>could
>> be a candidate for anyones favourite player, but he doesn't do anything
>for
>> me. For someone who clearly lives life to the full, he seems strangely
>> bereft of any personality when batting. I'm always happy to see him get
>runs
>> and, as you say, he's clearly very good, but there are any number of other
>> batsmen that I'd rather watch.

>You people are kidding. He's been typically scoring at a run a ball,

I've watched him score four centuries against England.

The strike rates have been 62.8, 93.5, 63.1 and 57.2. So one out of
four has been scored at almost a run a ball, and three out of four
have been scored at the more conventional rate of 60 or so.

Looking at all his Test 100s, only two of the other 10 have been
scored substantially faster than 65/100.

So what you call "typical" for him is in fact what he does about 20%
of the time. If that's your definition of "typical", then you're
speaking a different language to the one I use.

Quote:
>front
>and back foot, square or straight. He's a quick runner and can hit 6's. He's
>the best exponent of the hook + pull, the most exciting bat-ball contest in
>the game. And he's averaged well over 50 in recent times.

Gosh. Well, if you say so, but I'd say that Hayden was a better ***
and Vaughan a better puller, but that's just my opinion, not yours.
And your definition of the most exciting bat-ball contest in the game
is also yours, and not mine. I think the most exciting bat-ball
contest in the game is Warne versus almost any good batsman, which you
wouldn't because you detest him.

Quote:

>There may be more exciting players to watch in ODI's, Sehwag and Jayasuriya
>are possibilities, but Ponting has batted like that in Tests!

Sometimes, but then I suspect you can find a lot of batsmen who've
scored the odd really quick ton, which is what Ponting has in fact
done.

Quote:

>So who are these batsmen you would rather watch anyway? This better be good.

Off the top of my head, I can think of Vaughan, Trescothick, Butcher,
Hussain, Stewart, Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist, Love, Swaugh,
Mwaugh, Lara, Gayle, Hooper, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Tendulkar, Dravid,
Laxman, Sehwag, Inzamam, Youhana, Younis Khan, Gibbs, Smith,
Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Richardson, and A
Flower amongst current(-ish) Test batsmen, and I'm sure that if I
start thinking about it I'll come up with a number of others.

A name I missed out was Thorpe's, because I find his batting equally
uninteresting. Nearly a year ago, I watched him on TV scoring the
third fastest double century in Test history. Apart from that fact, I
can remember almost nothing of it. I remember vividly the way Hussain
scored his century on day one of that match, how Astle scored the
fastest double century of all time on the last day (thereby demoting
Thrope's effort to fourth in the all-time list), and the 137 which
Flintoff got at the other end while Thorpe was batting, but of
Thorpe's innings I remember only the statistics.  

I also used to very much enjoy watching Atherton bat. You might not
have done so, but then you're not an England supporter and could be
dispassionate about a fairly boring batsman.

Your assertion comes down to the fact that you enjoy watching Punter
bat, and I, Winny, Samarth and Bob don't particularly. I don't think
any of us have said we *hate* watching him bat, just that his innings
don't have us rapt with attention.

It's an aesthetic thing, and if you are going to dictate to me or the
rest of us what we must enjoy and what we mustn't, then you're being
ridiculous.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Mike Holman » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:14:06

Twas on Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:37:58 GMT that Jimbo

Quote:


>> Gilchrist A. The second-best wicketkeeper seen in the series, and as
>> dangerous with the bat as ever.

>2nd?  Three keepers were used, so he was the 3rd best :)

No, he wasn't. Stewart was actually worse than Gilchrist. In my
opinion, anyway.

Cheers,

Mike

 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Colin Lor » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:28:54


Quote:
> Twas on Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:37:58 GMT that Jimbo


> >> Gilchrist A. The second-best wicketkeeper seen in the series, and as
> >> dangerous with the bat as ever.

> >2nd?  Three keepers were used, so he was the 3rd best :)

> No, he wasn't. Stewart was actually worse than Gilchrist. In my
> opinion, anyway.

A lot worse actually. He was never good, now he's old and slow to go with
it. Can still bat though and might be a option as a late order batsman.
 
 
 

Ashes report cards - Australia

Post by Mike Holman » Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:32:32

Twas on Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:28:54 GMT that "Colin Lord"

Quote:



>> Twas on Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:37:58 GMT that Jimbo


>> >> Gilchrist A. The second-best wicketkeeper seen in the series, and as
>> >> dangerous with the bat as ever.

>> >2nd?  Three keepers were used, so he was the 3rd best :)

>> No, he wasn't. Stewart was actually worse than Gilchrist. In my
>> opinion, anyway.

>A lot worse actually. He was never good,

... but at least he used to be a lot better than Gilchrist.

Quote:
>now he's old and slow to go with
>it. Can still bat though and might be a option as a late order batsman.

Unless he can either bowl or keep well, it would be an extremely
short-sighted one.

Cheers,

Mike