60* wedge, bounce?

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Ricard » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:19:37


I am thinking about adding a 60* wedge to my bag to use mostly out of sand
bunkers.  I am confused about the different degrees of bounce.  8 and 12
degrees of bounce seem to be the most common.  Please I would like some
insight into this bounce mystery.  Thanks, Ricardo
 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Alan Bake » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:38:46


Quote:

> I am thinking about adding a 60* wedge to my bag to use mostly out of sand
> bunkers.  I am confused about the different degrees of bounce.  8 and 12
> degrees of bounce seem to be the most common.  Please I would like some
> insight into this bounce mystery.  Thanks, Ricardo

Bounce is a measurement of how much the sole of the club is angled to
move the club up out of the sand.

Hold a club in the address position with the shaft vertical (neither
leaning towards or away from the target) and if the sole of the club
lies flat on surface, then it has zero degrees of bounce. If the rear
edge of the sole contacts the surface and the leading edge of the club
is above the surface, then the angle formed between the sole of the club
and the surface is the bounce angle.

It's important to note that opening the clubface will increase the
amount of bounce from its theoretical value, so how much you want on
your wedge to begin with depends on your technique somewhat. If you plan
to use a 60 wedge from the sand with a square setup, then you probably
want more built-in bounce. But if you're going to open the face much,
you can probably use a club with less bounce as you'll be adding some.

Other factors to consider are things like how wide the sole is and how
straight. These will affect how much the bounce causes the leading edge
to rise (limiting the usefulness of the club for flop shots if the
leading edge rises too much) and how much the bounce will prevent the
club from digging to deep (a straighter sole giving more lift than a
more rounded one).

Hope this helps.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by gary hayeng » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:33:09


Quote:


>> I am thinking about adding a 60* wedge to my bag to use mostly out of sand
>> bunkers.  I am confused about the different degrees of bounce.  8 and 12
>> degrees of bounce seem to be the most common.  Please I would like some
>> insight into this bounce mystery.  Thanks, Ricardo

> Bounce is a measurement of how much the sole of the club is angled to
> move the club up out of the sand.

> Hold a club in the address position with the shaft vertical (neither
> leaning towards or away from the target) and if the sole of the club
> lies flat on surface, then it has zero degrees of bounce. If the rear
> edge of the sole contacts the surface and the leading edge of the club
> is above the surface, then the angle formed between the sole of the
> club and the surface is the bounce angle.

> It's important to note that opening the clubface will increase the
> amount of bounce from its theoretical value, so how much you want on
> your wedge to begin with depends on your technique somewhat. If you
> plan to use a 60 wedge from the sand with a square setup, then you
> probably want more built-in bounce. But if you're going to open the
> face much, you can probably use a club with less bounce as you'll be
> adding some.
> Other factors to consider are things like how wide the sole is and how
> straight. These will affect how much the bounce causes the leading edge
> to rise (limiting the usefulness of the club for flop shots if the
> leading edge rises too much) and how much the bounce will prevent the
> club from digging to deep (a straighter sole giving more lift than a
> more rounded one).

> Hope this helps.

Most people get a sand wedge with high bounce (12*) and a lob wedge
with lower bounce (8*) so they can play a lob/flop shot from a tight
lie with the low bounce club and not skull the ball and from fluffy
sand or grass with the higher bounce club so it won't dig in.

gary hayenga

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by fivei.. » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:12:45

Quote:
>Please I would like some insight into this >bounce mystery.
>Thanks,
>Ricardo

======
as you know the conventional sand wedge is roughly a 53 Loft / 12
Bounce type club. A 60 lob wedge will have less of a bounce angle.
The more bounce angle (sole depth) a club has, the less likely it is to
dig into the sand.

Getting out of a sand trap is no problem, if nothing else, while no one
is looking, just pick the ball up,

and throw it as close to the hole as possible, and then cuss real loud
cause it didn't go in.:--)

here you go.

http://www.leaderboard.com/GLOSSARY_BOUNCE

m h o
?v ?e

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Joe » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:29:59

Quote:

> I am thinking about adding a 60* wedge to my bag to use mostly out of sand
> bunkers.  I am confused about the different degrees of bounce.  8 and 12
> degrees of bounce seem to be the most common.  Please I would like some
> insight into this bounce mystery.  Thanks, Ricardo

Ricardo,

Gary's post gave you what you need to know.  The real key is the type of
snad and or grass that you play.  Firm or damp sand and tight lies, low
bounce.  Fluffy sand and grass under the ball more bounce.

Personally, I have ground several degrees of bounce off my stock 8 deg
wedge and you may find that a number of the guys on tour have less than
that.

Joe Hoffman

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by jpmis » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:39:37



Quote:
> It's important to note that opening the clubface will increase the
> amount of bounce from its theoretical value, so how much you want on
> your wedge to begin with depends on your technique somewhat. If you plan
> to use a 60 wedge from the sand with a square setup, then you probably
> want more built-in bounce. But if you're going to open the face much,
> you can probably use a club with less bounce as you'll be adding some.

Aren't you confusing loft with bounce angle?

If I open up a 56* sand wedge it'll increase the loft to near 60*, but the
thickness at the lower edge hasn't changed, it's still the same bounce
angle.

Isn't it?

___________________________

jpmis* speedfactory * net
___________________________

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Alan Bake » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:42:57


Quote:



> > It's important to note that opening the clubface will increase the
> > amount of bounce from its theoretical value, so how much you want on
> > your wedge to begin with depends on your technique somewhat. If you plan
> > to use a 60 wedge from the sand with a square setup, then you probably
> > want more built-in bounce. But if you're going to open the face much,
> > you can probably use a club with less bounce as you'll be adding some.

> Aren't you confusing loft with bounce angle?

> If I open up a 56* sand wedge it'll increase the loft to near 60*, but the
> thickness at the lower edge hasn't changed, it's still the same bounce
> angle.

> Isn't it?

Is it? <g>

Think about the process. The reason the loft increases (i.e. the top
edge of the club lowers) is that the shaft isn't perfectly vertical. So
some of the rotation opens the face (left/right or yaw) and some of the
rotation increases the loft (up/down or pitch).

Well the flange is attached to the same shaft, isn't it? When you rotate
the face open, the flange will change in "pitch" as well.

Simple.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by jpmis » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:41:50



Quote:
> > If I open up a 56* sand wedge it'll increase the loft to near 60*, but the
> > thickness at the lower edge hasn't changed, it's still the same bounce
> > angle.

> > Isn't it?

> Is it? <g>

> Think about the process. The reason the loft increases (i.e. the top
> edge of the club lowers) is that the shaft isn't perfectly vertical. So
> some of the rotation opens the face (left/right or yaw) and some of the
> rotation increases the loft (up/down or pitch).

> Well the flange is attached to the same shaft, isn't it? When you rotate
> the face open, the flange will change in "pitch" as well.

I'm burning out a few more brain cells trying to visualize that and the
result I came up with is that not only have you not lowered the bounce
angle, you've increased it. (!!!) If you take an "L" and rotate it to a "<"
the loft goes down, but the bounce doesn't.

I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the club vs
horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to raise the leading edge
of the club from the ground. I question how the thickness of the edge is
going to decrease just because you've opened the club face. If anything,
now that you've got the heel of the club hitting first, you've increased
the bounce.

This is why I guess it's common practice to open up your sand wedge when in
a bunker to increase your changes of gliding thru the sand without digging
into it.

My clubs are in the trunk of my car some several floors down, else I'd test
this out. Sorry I've omitted calling you names, questioning your
patriotism, sanity or IQ as is customary here at RSG . . . <grin>

___________________________

jpmis* speedfactory * net
___________________________

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Alan Bake » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:49:28


Quote:



> > > If I open up a 56* sand wedge it'll increase the loft to near 60*, but
> > > the
> > > thickness at the lower edge hasn't changed, it's still the same bounce
> > > angle.

> > > Isn't it?

> > Is it? <g>

> > Think about the process. The reason the loft increases (i.e. the top
> > edge of the club lowers) is that the shaft isn't perfectly vertical. So
> > some of the rotation opens the face (left/right or yaw) and some of the
> > rotation increases the loft (up/down or pitch).

> > Well the flange is attached to the same shaft, isn't it? When you rotate
> > the face open, the flange will change in "pitch" as well.

> I'm burning out a few more brain cells trying to visualize that and the
> result I came up with is that not only have you not lowered the bounce
> angle, you've increased it. (!!!) If you take an "L" and rotate it to a "<"
> the loft goes down, but the bounce doesn't.

Increasing the bounce is what I said it would do:

"It's important to note that opening the clubface will increase the
amount of bounce from its theoretical value,"

Quote:

> I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the club vs
> horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to raise the leading edge
> of the club from the ground. I question how the thickness of the edge is
> going to decrease just because you've opened the club face. If anything,
> now that you've got the heel of the club hitting first, you've increased
> the bounce.

Which is what I said...

Quote:

> This is why I guess it's common practice to open up your sand wedge when in
> a bunker to increase your changes of gliding thru the sand without digging
> into it.

Right.

Quote:

> My clubs are in the trunk of my car some several floors down, else I'd test
> this out. Sorry I've omitted calling you names, questioning your
> patriotism, sanity or IQ as is customary here at RSG . . . <grin>

Hey. You'll catch me next time.

<g>

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by jpmis » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:35:54

Quote:

> > I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the club vs
> > horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to raise the leading edge
> > of the club from the ground. I question how the thickness of the edge is
> > going to decrease just because you've opened the club face. If anything,
> > now that you've got the heel of the club hitting first, you've increased
> > the bounce.

> Which is what I said...

You are correct, sir!

Dain brammage. . .

___________________________

jpmis* speedfactory * net
___________________________

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by t0ph3 » Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:02:10


Quote:

> > > I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the club vs
> > > horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to raise the leading
edge
> > > of the club from the ground. I question how the thickness of the edge
is
> > > going to decrease just because you've opened the club face. If
anything,
> > > now that you've got the heel of the club hitting first, you've
increased
> > > the bounce.

> > Which is what I said...

> You are correct, sir!

> Dain brammage. . .

> ___________________________

> jpmis* speedfactory * net
> ___________________________

Golfsmith makes a series of wedges called their 600 series. They have what
they call a preworn or progressive sole which allows the club face to be
opened without increasing the bounce of the club which is 10*. They claim
increased versatiltiy with opened faces.
 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Roald Oine » Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:14:00



:> >
:> > >
:> > > I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the
:> > > club vs horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to
:> > > raise the leading edge of the club from the ground. I question
:> > > how the thickness of the edge is going to decrease just because
:> > > you've opened the club face. If anything, now that you've got
:> > > the heel of the club hitting first, you've increased the bounce.
:> >
:> > Which is what I said...
:>
:> You are correct, sir!
:>
:> Dain brammage. . .
:>
:> ___________________________
:>
:> jpmis* speedfactory * net
:> ___________________________
:
:
: Golfsmith makes a series of wedges called their 600 series. They have
: what they call a preworn or progressive sole which allows the club
: face to be opened without increasing the bounce of the club which is
: 10*. They claim increased versatiltiy with opened faces.

Wishon does the same thing, only more so -- his wedges transition to
lower bounce angles at the heel (all the PMC and PCF wedges transition
to 0*; the PDC wedges transition to 4* or 6*) "so the golfer can roll
the face open, rest the wedge on the heel for a finesse or higher shot,
and not have the primary sole angle cause the sole to 'bounce' and blade
the shot at the slow head speeds of real finesse shots."

I haven't tried them so I don't know if or how well they work...

--
http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=oinesroald
Please remove the under_scores if sending me mail.

 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by t0ph3 » Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:42:11


Quote:




> :> >
> :> > >
> :> > > I know that the bounce angle is the angle of the sole of the
> :> > > club vs horizontal, and that the effect of more angle is to
> :> > > raise the leading edge of the club from the ground. I question
> :> > > how the thickness of the edge is going to decrease just because
> :> > > you've opened the club face. If anything, now that you've got
> :> > > the heel of the club hitting first, you've increased the bounce.
> :> >
> :> > Which is what I said...
> :>
> :> You are correct, sir!
> :>
> :> Dain brammage. . .
> :>
> :> ___________________________
> :>
> :> jpmis* speedfactory * net
> :> ___________________________
> :
> :
> : Golfsmith makes a series of wedges called their 600 series. They have
> : what they call a preworn or progressive sole which allows the club
> : face to be opened without increasing the bounce of the club which is
> : 10*. They claim increased versatiltiy with opened faces.

> Wishon does the same thing, only more so -- his wedges transition to
> lower bounce angles at the heel (all the PMC and PCF wedges transition
> to 0*; the PDC wedges transition to 4* or 6*) "so the golfer can roll
> the face open, rest the wedge on the heel for a finesse or higher shot,
> and not have the primary sole angle cause the sole to 'bounce' and blade
> the shot at the slow head speeds of real finesse shots."

> I haven't tried them so I don't know if or how well they work...

> --
> http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=oinesroald
> Please remove the under_scores if sending me mail.

    Yes, I hate to open the face on a wedge because of the increase bounce
and that big metal thing, I think it's called the hosel that launchs my ball
into the stratosphere. So much for finesse. :)
 
 
 

60* wedge, bounce?

Post by Howard Braze » Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:03:35

Bounce is useful for keeping a club from digging into the sand too far.

But bounce also bounces a club off of the hard ground.    My hardest shot is one
from sand-wedge distance on hard-pan.   I have no leeway as the edge of the SW
has to be exactly under the ball when I hit.   Lower bounce clubs give me more
opportunities to get a good hit with a less optimal swing.

So the question is - do you plan on using your LW to blast out of the sand?  
If so, then bounce will help.