Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by \ » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Just for the record, like Jack, Tiger uses a steel shaft in his driver.

X-400, as I recall.

Something tells me if Tiger were to swing one of Jack's old persimmon
drivers, he might just hit it about the same distance he's hitting the one
he uses now.  Maybe a little shorter, but not much.

Randy
===================================================

website:  http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com
RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm
===================================================
                                       "Preparing now for Y3K."


Quote:

> >After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing in
golf.
> >Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This
difference
> >was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed
Nicklaus,
> >Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left foot
at the
> >top of their backswing.

> You cheated and have been looking at the latest issue of Golf
> Magazine! They cover this very topic. I think they call it the 5 moves
> of modern golf. The gist of the article is that the modern swing, a-la
> Tiger, Duval, et al, involves less driving of the legs on the
> downswing and less of a reverse C position at the finish. They are
> saying the power comes from spinning around a fixed axis and the
> leverage you can gain from centrifual force. In order to maximize this
> force your center of gravity needs to stay balanced, nor driving
> forward.

> As a young man I also tried to emulate the Jack Nicklauses and Johny
> Millers by having a very strong leg drive and somewhat of a reverse C
> position. Because of all this leg drive I was always having problems
> hitting the ball thin and fat. I was moving my center of gravity too
> much. In the last year or so I have consciously practiced keeping my
> balance, not lifting my left heel on the backswing and not driving
> forward so hard. I even go so far as to pull my body ever so slightly
> to the right as my arms and legs are driving through. I know I don't
> actually move to the right but striving for that feeling helps keep my
> center of gravity constant. I found that this swing produces much more
> clubhead speed than my old one, is much more consistent than the old,
> and I can hit the ball on line almost at will. My handicap went from
> an 8 to a 4 in a matter of a few months. I'm completely sold on this
> "modern" swing.

> Having said that I also think it is the new technology that is making
> this swing so popular. You don't have to make a mad rip at the ball
> any more with 46" long drivers and graphite shafts. When Jack was at
> his prime he was playng with x-stiff steel shafts and small blade
> heads with a persimmon driver. Those guys had to out every ounce of
> energy they has into the ball to get any distance.

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Skilbart » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing in golf.
Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This difference
was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed Nicklaus,
Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left foot at the
top of their backswing.

Tiger and Duval hit the ball significantly further than even The Bear in his
prime. Equipment or swing? Hmmmm.... And by the way as I watch the Sony
classic, lets add Ernie Els to the group of guys that keep the weight centered
at the top.

I decided to experiment with this new swing over the summer. Lo and behold, I
found that if I kept my head exactly still over the ball and resisted the urge
developed over the last 30 years to swing into the inside of my right foot on
the backswing and actually keep the weight 50-50 at the top, or even slightly
forward at the top (the dreaded reverse pivot), I hit the ball 15 yards further
with every club.
A 150 yard 7 iron is now going 165. I got the sensation that from this balanced
position at the top coupled with an earlier wrist break going back, that I was
getting extra club head velocity from a *** action thru the ball that I
have never experienced before. I am not swinging harder. I'm actually swinging
smoother.

I know that a lot of pros frequent this group. Could you comment on this
phenomena?

Thanks,
Skil

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Tom O'Kell » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing in golf.
>Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This difference
>was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed Nicklaus,
>Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left foot at the
>top of their backswing.

You cheated and have been looking at the latest issue of Golf
Magazine! They cover this very topic. I think they call it the 5 moves
of modern golf. The gist of the article is that the modern swing, a-la
Tiger, Duval, et al, involves less driving of the legs on the
downswing and less of a reverse C position at the finish. They are
saying the power comes from spinning around a fixed axis and the
leverage you can gain from centrifual force. In order to maximize this
force your center of gravity needs to stay balanced, nor driving
forward.

As a young man I also tried to emulate the Jack Nicklauses and Johny
Millers by having a very strong leg drive and somewhat of a reverse C
position. Because of all this leg drive I was always having problems
hitting the ball thin and fat. I was moving my center of gravity too
much. In the last year or so I have consciously practiced keeping my
balance, not lifting my left heel on the backswing and not driving
forward so hard. I even go so far as to pull my body ever so slightly
to the right as my arms and legs are driving through. I know I don't
actually move to the right but striving for that feeling helps keep my
center of gravity constant. I found that this swing produces much more
clubhead speed than my old one, is much more consistent than the old,
and I can hit the ball on line almost at will. My handicap went from
an 8 to a 4 in a matter of a few months. I'm completely sold on this
"modern" swing.

Having said that I also think it is the new technology that is making
this swing so popular. You don't have to make a mad rip at the ball
any more with 46" long drivers and graphite shafts. When Jack was at
his prime he was playng with x-stiff steel shafts and small blade
heads with a persimmon driver. Those guys had to out every ounce of
energy they has into the ball to get any distance.

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by hawke.. » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Skil,
Has your TV been on the blink for some time? Keeping the left foot
planted on the backswing has been in teaching vogue for at least the
last two decades. Woods, Duval etc are shifting their weight on the
takeaway & turning around that initial shift. The longer the club - the
more pronounced the shift will appear - they're getting behind the
ball, weight included, which has been a fundamental since the beginning
of golf time.

Martin Blake CA



Quote:
> After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing
in golf.
> Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This
difference
> was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed
Nicklaus,
> Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left
foot at the
> top of their backswing.

> Tiger and Duval hit the ball significantly further than even The Bear
in his
> prime. Equipment or swing? Hmmmm.... And by the way as I watch the
Sony
> classic, lets add Ernie Els to the group of guys that keep the weight
centered
> at the top.

> I decided to experiment with this new swing over the summer. Lo and
behold, I
> found that if I kept my head exactly still over the ball and resisted
the urge
> developed over the last 30 years to swing into the inside of my right
foot on
> the backswing and actually keep the weight 50-50 at the top, or even
slightly
> forward at the top (the dreaded reverse pivot), I hit the ball 15
yards further
> with every club.
> A 150 yard 7 iron is now going 165. I got the sensation that from
this balanced
> position at the top coupled with an earlier wrist break going back,
that I was
> getting extra club head velocity from a *** action thru the ball
that I
> have never experienced before. I am not swinging harder. I'm actually
swinging
> smoother.

> I know that a lot of pros frequent this group. Could you comment on
this
> phenomena?

> Thanks,
> Skil

Sent via Deja.com http://SportToday.org/
Before you buy.
 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Mike Daleck » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

There was an article in one of the golf magazines a year or two ago that
compared the distances and accuracy of a couple of tour players who had
recently switched to metal heads from persimmon.  I think one was Freddy
Couples, can't recall the others, but they were contemporaries.
(Someone who's read that can correct me here).

Anyway, they did a "before and after" comparison of Persimmon with the
Metal woods.  The distances were virtually the same (about a yard
difference) and the accuracies were within a percent or two.

I don't recall which was better, I seem to recall that it varied.  At
any rate, the equipment was clearly no influence.  As they say, the
swing's the thing.

Mike Dalecki

Quote:

> Just for the record, like Jack, Tiger uses a steel shaft in his driver.

> X-400, as I recall.

> Something tells me if Tiger were to swing one of Jack's old persimmon
> drivers, he might just hit it about the same distance he's hitting the one
> he uses now.  Maybe a little shorter, but not much.

> Randy
> ===================================================

> website:  http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com
> RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm
> ===================================================
>                                        "Preparing now for Y3K."




> > >After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing in
> golf.
> > >Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This
> difference
> > >was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed
> Nicklaus,
> > >Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left foot
> at the
> > >top of their backswing.

> > You cheated and have been looking at the latest issue of Golf
> > Magazine! They cover this very topic. I think they call it the 5 moves
> > of modern golf. The gist of the article is that the modern swing, a-la
> > Tiger, Duval, et al, involves less driving of the legs on the
> > downswing and less of a reverse C position at the finish. They are
> > saying the power comes from spinning around a fixed axis and the
> > leverage you can gain from centrifual force. In order to maximize this
> > force your center of gravity needs to stay balanced, nor driving
> > forward.

> > As a young man I also tried to emulate the Jack Nicklauses and Johny
> > Millers by having a very strong leg drive and somewhat of a reverse C
> > position. Because of all this leg drive I was always having problems
> > hitting the ball thin and fat. I was moving my center of gravity too
> > much. In the last year or so I have consciously practiced keeping my
> > balance, not lifting my left heel on the backswing and not driving
> > forward so hard. I even go so far as to pull my body ever so slightly
> > to the right as my arms and legs are driving through. I know I don't
> > actually move to the right but striving for that feeling helps keep my
> > center of gravity constant. I found that this swing produces much more
> > clubhead speed than my old one, is much more consistent than the old,
> > and I can hit the ball on line almost at will. My handicap went from
> > an 8 to a 4 in a matter of a few months. I'm completely sold on this
> > "modern" swing.

> > Having said that I also think it is the new technology that is making
> > this swing so popular. You don't have to make a mad rip at the ball
> > any more with 46" long drivers and graphite shafts. When Jack was at
> > his prime he was playng with x-stiff steel shafts and small blade
> > heads with a persimmon driver. Those guys had to out every ounce of
> > energy they has into the ball to get any distance.

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by sunlo » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

What your really seeing in these guys can be explained by one thing,
flexability. Players like Duval, Woods, Els, Couples, etc. can leave
their left foot planted on the back swing and still make a tremendous
turn with very few moving parts. They give the "illusion" that they are
not shifting most of their weight to tthe right foot on the takeaway.
This actually goes for most of the tour players. Check out someone like
Jesper Parnevik or Andrew Magee at the top of their backswing in pause
mode on your vcr, Amazing flexability. Then there's John Daly, check him
out at the top in pause mode- "freak of nature".
 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by <phillimag.. » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

This was one of the first things my pro altered in my swing.  I brought my
front foot way up, and this was the reason I was being inconsistent.  He
said that with a larger weight shift, it was more difficult to be
consistent in where the lowest point of my swing was.  Felt funny at first
to keep it down, but now it feels great.  
 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Eric Mille » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

The difference is the ball technology.  A 25 year old Jack Nicklaus using
todays technology, and especially todays golf ball, would be comparable to
Duval and Woods.

Eric


Quote:
> There was an article in one of the golf magazines a year or two ago that
> compared the distances and accuracy of a couple of tour players who had
> recently switched to metal heads from persimmon.  I think one was Freddy
> Couples, can't recall the others, but they were contemporaries.
> (Someone who's read that can correct me here).

> Anyway, they did a "before and after" comparison of Persimmon with the
> Metal woods.  The distances were virtually the same (about a yard
> difference) and the accuracies were within a percent or two.

> I don't recall which was better, I seem to recall that it varied.  At
> any rate, the equipment was clearly no influence.  As they say, the
> swing's the thing.

> Mike Dalecki


> > Just for the record, like Jack, Tiger uses a steel shaft in his driver.

> > X-400, as I recall.

> > Something tells me if Tiger were to swing one of Jack's old persimmon
> > drivers, he might just hit it about the same distance he's hitting the
one
> > he uses now.  Maybe a little shorter, but not much.

> > Randy
> > ===================================================

> > website:  http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com
> > RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm
> > ===================================================
> >                                        "Preparing now for Y3K."




> > > >After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing
in
> > golf.
> > > >Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This
> > difference
> > > >was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed
> > Nicklaus,
> > > >Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left
foot
> > at the
> > > >top of their backswing.

> > > You cheated and have been looking at the latest issue of Golf
> > > Magazine! They cover this very topic. I think they call it the 5 moves
> > > of modern golf. The gist of the article is that the modern swing, a-la
> > > Tiger, Duval, et al, involves less driving of the legs on the
> > > downswing and less of a reverse C position at the finish. They are
> > > saying the power comes from spinning around a fixed axis and the
> > > leverage you can gain from centrifual force. In order to maximize this
> > > force your center of gravity needs to stay balanced, nor driving
> > > forward.

> > > As a young man I also tried to emulate the Jack Nicklauses and Johny
> > > Millers by having a very strong leg drive and somewhat of a reverse C
> > > position. Because of all this leg drive I was always having problems
> > > hitting the ball thin and fat. I was moving my center of gravity too
> > > much. In the last year or so I have consciously practiced keeping my
> > > balance, not lifting my left heel on the backswing and not driving
> > > forward so hard. I even go so far as to pull my body ever so slightly
> > > to the right as my arms and legs are driving through. I know I don't
> > > actually move to the right but striving for that feeling helps keep my
> > > center of gravity constant. I found that this swing produces much more
> > > clubhead speed than my old one, is much more consistent than the old,
> > > and I can hit the ball on line almost at will. My handicap went from
> > > an 8 to a 4 in a matter of a few months. I'm completely sold on this
> > > "modern" swing.

> > > Having said that I also think it is the new technology that is making
> > > this swing so popular. You don't have to make a mad rip at the ball
> > > any more with 46" long drivers and graphite shafts. When Jack was at
> > > his prime he was playng with x-stiff steel shafts and small blade
> > > heads with a persimmon driver. Those guys had to out every ounce of
> > > energy they has into the ball to get any distance.

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Mike Daleck » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Oh, I didn't mean a long-time frame reference, just that the newer
metal-head technology had no influence on the games of these guys who
were compared.  I sure wouldn't want to play with equipment from long
ago.  

You point out one other thing that I think people generally miss.  The
stars in any generation would be stars in any other, generally.  I
agree, Nicklaus at his prime would be a match for Tiger (now, how much
would you pay to witness THAT??).   And Tiger, playing a 25-year-old
Jack back then, would have been a match for him at that time, with that
equipment.

Equipment doesn't turn a journeyman into a star.  Stars will be stars
regardless of the level of the equipment, as long as the equipment is
the same for everyone.

Mike Dalecki

Quote:

> The difference is the ball technology.  A 25 year old Jack Nicklaus using
> todays technology, and especially todays golf ball, would be comparable to
> Duval and Woods.

> Eric

 
 
 

Tiger, Duval and Els...Less Weight Shift, More Distance

Post by Scott » Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
> After watching Tiger and David Duval, there seems to be a new swing in
golf.
> Both of them never leave their left foot on their backswing. This
difference
> was highlited on New Year's Day when a show on ESPN I think showed
Nicklaus,
> Palmer et al. All of those guys took all the weight off their left foot at
the
> top of their backswing.

> Tiger and Duval hit the ball significantly further than even The Bear in
his
> prime. Equipment or swing? Hmmmm.... And by the way as I watch the Sony
> classic, lets add Ernie Els to the group of guys that keep the weight
centered
> at the top.

Woods, Duval, and Els do not keep their weight centered at the top.  Their
left heels stay on the ground which may give you that impression, but all
three coil the upper body behind the ball putting a large percentage of
weight on to the right foot.

Keeping the left heel on the ground restricts the hip turn.  Couple this
with a full coil behind the ball and there will be more tension in the swing
which leads to a more powerful swing.

--