Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by RN » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 07:52:34


The Ryder Cup is a great event with great history - The President's Cup is
much newer, but includes the "rest" of the world.

Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the "rest"
of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
USA-Europe event.

Any thoughts?

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Bill » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:01:07


Quote:
> The Ryder Cup is a great event with great history - The President's Cup is
> much newer, but includes the "rest" of the world.

> Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
> than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
> reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the
"rest"
> of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

> As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
> USA-Europe event.

> Any thoughts?

Hmmm now theres a good idea !

Quick patent it before Finchem grabs it claims it was his idea. Ask Greg
Norman about the world tour thingy

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Pat McLea » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:27:31


Quote:
> The Ryder Cup is a great event with great history - The President's Cup is
> much newer, but includes the "rest" of the world.

> Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
> than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
> reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the
"rest"
> of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

> As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
> USA-Europe event.

> Any thoughts?

Yes.  Don't do anything to enhance the stature of the President's Cup.  The
Ryder Cup was a gathering of players from the US and Great Britain for a
weekend of friendly matches. The President's Cup is a creation of the PGA
Tour in order to ride the popularity of the Ryder Cup to make itself money.

I'm not one of these people who think athletes shouldn't play for money,
etc.  But when organizations create events for the purpose of generating
money, but pass it off as something else(a chance for other players to
particiapte in an event like this), then I have a problem with it.

Aside from the fact that match play is different, do people really care
about the President's Cup?  Without looking it up, how far back can you name
the Ryder Cup winners, and how many President's Cup winners can you name?

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by mat twass » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:50:18

Quote:
RN writes:
>Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
>than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
>reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the "rest"
>of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

>As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
>USA-Europe event.

>Any thoughts?

Sounds fair.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd watch if the US team wasn't
playing.  Funny thing is that I wasn't really rooting that hard for the US
team. I sure would have liked to have seen what happened if Furyk's sand shot
had gone in, though.

--Mat Twassel

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Stan The Ma » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:02:08


Quote:

>RN writes:

>>Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
>>than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
>>reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the "rest"
>>of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

>>As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
>>USA-Europe event.

>>Any thoughts?

>Sounds fair.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd watch if the US team wasn't
>playing.  Funny thing is that I wasn't really rooting that hard for the US
>team. I sure would have liked to have seen what happened if Furyk's sand shot
>had gone in, though.

The Presidents Cup is a non-event - manufactured for TV. It doesn't
work because the "Rest of the World" doesn't exist. It isn't a place.
It doesn't have any native fans. It isn't connected either by
geophysical land borders or by political idealism. It's a convenient
rag-tag-and-bobtail outfit thrown together misguidedly for the TV
cameras. Please don't diminish the Ryder Cup in this way. Maybe there's
an argument for a true World Cup of golf which would include full teams
from every continent and would have to be played over 3-4 weeks - but
leave the Ryder Cup alone. It has a unique atmosphere which would only
be diluted by trying to expand it.

Stan

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by RN » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:25:37


Quote:
> The Presidents Cup is a non-event - manufactured for TV. It doesn't
> work because the "Rest of the World" doesn't exist. It isn't a place.
> It doesn't have any native fans. It isn't connected either by
> geophysical land borders or by political idealism. It's a convenient
> rag-tag-and-bobtail outfit thrown together misguidedly for the TV
> cameras. Please don't diminish the Ryder Cup in this way. Maybe there's
> an argument for a true World Cup of golf which would include full teams
> from every continent and would have to be played over 3-4 weeks - but
> leave the Ryder Cup alone. It has a unique atmosphere which would only
> be diluted by trying to expand it.

Firstly, a small correction - I never suggested changing the Ryder Cup -
Just having the winner play the rest of the world.

You are right about the lack of a defined space that is the "Rest of the
World".  However, "Europe" is not much different - Sweden, Spain, England,
France, Ireland, Italy, Germany etc are as diverse as the "Rest of the
World" and were thrown together because the Ryder Cup was floundering.

What Europe and "The Rest" have in common, is that they are not the USA! As
a result, both teams have great support. It is true that TV ratings may be
affected if the USA are not involved, because it seems every one (outside
America) loves to see the USA beaten.

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by William A. T. Clar » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:06:16


Quote:


> > The Presidents Cup is a non-event - manufactured for TV. It doesn't
> > work because the "Rest of the World" doesn't exist. It isn't a place.
> > It doesn't have any native fans. It isn't connected either by
> > geophysical land borders or by political idealism. It's a convenient
> > rag-tag-and-bobtail outfit thrown together misguidedly for the TV
> > cameras. Please don't diminish the Ryder Cup in this way. Maybe there's
> > an argument for a true World Cup of golf which would include full teams
> > from every continent and would have to be played over 3-4 weeks - but
> > leave the Ryder Cup alone. It has a unique atmosphere which would only
> > be diluted by trying to expand it.

> Firstly, a small correction - I never suggested changing the Ryder Cup -
> Just having the winner play the rest of the world.

> You are right about the lack of a defined space that is the "Rest of the
> World".  However, "Europe" is not much different - Sweden, Spain,
> England,
> France, Ireland, Italy, Germany etc are as diverse as the "Rest of the
> World" and were thrown together because the Ryder Cup was floundering.

> What Europe and "The Rest" have in common, is that they are not the USA!
> As
> a result, both teams have great support. It is true that TV ratings may
> be
> affected if the USA are not involved, because it seems every one (outside
> America) loves to see the USA beaten.

Yes, but the Europeans have a very strong common bond in that they play
the European PGA Tour, which as we heard, is much closer knit than the
PGA one. The Rest of the World play all sorts of tours, and have really
no common link.

William Clark

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by dudeste » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:18:19


Quote:



>>>The Presidents Cup is a non-event - manufactured for TV. It doesn't
>>>work because the "Rest of the World" doesn't exist. It isn't a place.
>>>It doesn't have any native fans. It isn't connected either by
>>>geophysical land borders or by political idealism. It's a convenient
>>>rag-tag-and-bobtail outfit thrown together misguidedly for the TV
>>>cameras. Please don't diminish the Ryder Cup in this way. Maybe there's
>>>an argument for a true World Cup of golf which would include full teams
>>>from every continent and would have to be played over 3-4 weeks - but
>>>leave the Ryder Cup alone. It has a unique atmosphere which would only
>>>be diluted by trying to expand it.

>>Firstly, a small correction - I never suggested changing the Ryder Cup -
>>Just having the winner play the rest of the world.

>>You are right about the lack of a defined space that is the "Rest of the
>>World".  However, "Europe" is not much different - Sweden, Spain,
>>England,
>>France, Ireland, Italy, Germany etc are as diverse as the "Rest of the
>>World" and were thrown together because the Ryder Cup was floundering.

>>What Europe and "The Rest" have in common, is that they are not the USA!
>>As
>>a result, both teams have great support. It is true that TV ratings may
>>be
>>affected if the USA are not involved, because it seems every one (outside
>>America) loves to see the USA beaten.

> Yes, but the Europeans have a very strong common bond in that they play
> the European PGA Tour, which as we heard, is much closer knit than the
> PGA one. The Rest of the World play all sorts of tours, and have really
> no common link.

> William Clark

The European tour is just one big circle jerk.  Everyone loves each
other and they all sit around eating fish and chips and sipping***
warm beer after every tournament.

No wonder they can't win majors anymore.  No wonder Tiger pisses on them.

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Bill V » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:26:31

I don't like the idea of the elimination system (winner of one moves on to
play winner....). Reminds me too much of the college football BCS
system...besides, splitting the teams up will take away from the camaraderie
that may only take place with all players playing at one time ... why not
just combine the Presidents' Cup with the Ryder Cup and make it a 3-team
event?

Remember-- we already changed the Ryder Cup once already when they converted
it from USA vs UK to a USA vs EU event. Why not just admit many of the
world's best players no longer come from USA or Europe and make this event
REALLY important and reflective of the international state of golf today?


Quote:
> The Ryder Cup is a great event with great history - The President's Cup is
> much newer, but includes the "rest" of the world.

> Considering that the "rest" of the world may in fact have a stronger team
> than either of the Ryder Cup teams, perhaps the President's Cup should
> reconfigured, so that the winner of the Ryder Cup goes on to play the
"rest"
> of the world in what could be considered the World Golf Final.

> As it is, the "rest" of the world will end up playing the losers of the
> USA-Europe event.

> Any thoughts?

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Stan The Ma » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:22:34


Quote:


>> The Presidents Cup is a non-event - manufactured for TV. It doesn't
>> work because the "Rest of the World" doesn't exist. It isn't a place.
>> It doesn't have any native fans. It isn't connected either by
>> geophysical land borders or by political idealism. It's a convenient
>> rag-tag-and-bobtail outfit thrown together misguidedly for the TV
>> cameras. Please don't diminish the Ryder Cup in this way. Maybe there's
>> an argument for a true World Cup of golf which would include full teams
>> from every continent and would have to be played over 3-4 weeks - but
>> leave the Ryder Cup alone. It has a unique atmosphere which would only
>> be diluted by trying to expand it.

>Firstly, a small correction - I never suggested changing the Ryder Cup -
>Just having the winner play the rest of the world.

The European PGA hasn't shown any interest at all in a Europe v RoW
match-up. Maybe that's because it doesn't look commercially viable.
More likely, imho, it's because they know that it would always be a
very pale imitation of the genuine article.

Quote:
>You are right about the lack of a defined space that is the "Rest of the
>World".  However, "Europe" is not much different - Sweden, Spain, England,
>France, Ireland, Italy, Germany etc are as diverse as the "Rest of the
>World" and were thrown together because the Ryder Cup was floundering.

The Europeans share the same continent. They share a flag. They all
speak almost perfect English. Apart from the Brits, they all share the
same currency. They all play, or have played, the European Tour. That
seems like quite a lot of commonality to me -- and certainly enough to
engender a genuine team spirit and genuine fan support.

Quote:
>What Europe and "The Rest" have in common, is that they are not the USA! As
>a result, both teams have great support. It is true that TV ratings may be
>affected if the USA are not involved, because it seems every one (outside
>America) loves to see the USA beaten.

That isn't the buzz that I get from the Ryder Cup. Firstly, I love
matchplay golf. Secondly I love seeing the players' raw emotions which
you hardly ever see at any other time. Thirdly, I get a big buzz from
the cheering of the fans, whether in Europe or the US. The cheers
ringing out across the fairways of The Belfry were unreal and
spine-tingling. Not even a major can reproduce that. Next time you hold
a President's Cup, listen out for the RoW fans.... It's not the same
and it never will be.

Stan

 
 
 

Ryder Cup vs President's Cup

Post by Richard Bulloc » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:18:43

Quote:
> You are right about the lack of a defined space that is the "Rest of the
> World".  However, "Europe" is not much different - Sweden, Spain, England,
> France, Ireland, Italy, Germany etc are as diverse as the "Rest of the
> World" and were thrown together because the Ryder Cup was floundering.

European borders are as well defined as US borders. When you cross from one
European state into another - there are no border controls (except for
passing into the UK from France/Germany etc), just a little blue sign with a
few yellow stars on it announcing that you are now in a different country.
Yes, each individual nation does still have a national identity and most
people would describe themselves as coming from that nation as opposed to
being a European, but increasingly though, Europe is becoming like a large
nation. Most of the states share a single currency - the Euro, and a lot of
the laws are governed by the European parliament. In an event like the Ryder
Cup, most are happy to support Europe as their country.

Quote:
> What Europe and "The Rest" have in common, is that they are not the USA!
As
> a result, both teams have great support. It is true that TV ratings may be
> affected if the USA are not involved, because it seems every one (outside
> America) loves to see the USA beaten.

There is that as well ;-)

Ric