Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Post by Larry Whitake » Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:13:28




Quote:





>> Hi Chrome,

>> You are making this entire too complex.  It is not.  You should feel
>> like a washing machine agitator-- turning the entire club by turning
>> your torso--with your wrists and forearms "frozen," and your elbows
>> tightly against your rib cage.  The club handle remains pointing at
>> your belly button throughout the lower portions of the swing.  This is
>> exactly what the popular "swing jacket" makes you do.

>> There is no manipulation of the club in order to turn the clubhead.

>> When the club is horizontal, if you opened your hands, they should be
>> ready to applaud-- palm facing palm.  Same at address, same at the
>> top, same at horizontal after impact.  THAT is the only way a human
>> can direct a golf ball during a split second move like the golf swing.
>> Keep it natural and simple.  Try moving your two hands held slightly
>> apart from directly in front of you to behind you to address and then
>> in front of you, keeping them oriented exactly the same.  THAT is the
>> golf swing movement.  And that is the role of the wrists--NOTHING!

>> The hands and wrists do nothing in the golf swing, they "have no role"
>> other than to hang on.

>> Larry

>> Larry

>Do you teach?
>Would you give me a lesson?
>You're probably scratch, huh?

Not yet.  But funny you should ask, I was one-under on 9 holes played
Sunday morning with my wife and another couple.    

This stuff does work.

My head pro watched me on the range Saturday morning and walked over
to ask what I was shooting these days.  I replied "mid-80's with bad
putting" and he said very seriously: "you wil be shooting near
scratch"   I hope he is right.  I have worked very *** this.  

Larry

- Show quoted text -

 
 
 

Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Post by Larry Whitake » Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:15:45

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:10:58 +1100, Colin Wilson

Quote:


>> When the club is horizontal, if you opened your hands, they should be
>> ready to applaud-- palm facing palm.  Same at address, same at the
>> top, same at horizontal after impact.

>This is one of those "tips" that's basically meaningless. I mean, if the
>palms of each hand are facing each other at address, they can hardly
>take up any other position throughout the swing, unless they *shift on
>the grip*

>... can they?!!

Of course.  If you turn the clubhead by turning your wrists, then open
your hands, one palm will be over the other--not parallel with palm
facing palm.  

Larry

 
 
 

Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Post by Scott Newel » Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:37:42


Quote:
> My head pro watched me on the range
> Saturday morning and walked over
> to ask what I was shooting these days.  I replied "mid-80's with bad
> putting" and he said very seriously: "you wil be shooting near
> scratch"   I hope he is right.  I have worked very *** this.

Why aren't you working on your putting/short game like you said you were
going to do last month then?

--

Washington State University
"That shot is impossible!...Jack Nicholson
himself couldn't make it!"-- Homer Simpson

 
 
 

Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Post by Chrom » Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:44:12


Quote:
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:41:40 GMT, Larry Whitaker

> >>> >A few questions Larry.
> >>> >On the takeaway to horizontal you said that the arms should be fully
> >>> >extended.
> >>> >Then in the next sentence you said that the right upper arm should be
> >>> >touching my rib cage.
> >>> >These two sentences seem to be in conflict.

> >>> Not really.  The elbow stays against your rib cage until the club
> >>> leaves horizontal going  up.  Then it must come away in order to allow
> >>> your hands to elevate, of course.  You want that elbow to be pointing
> >>> down, however, so that it will come back to your rib cage when you
> >>> downswing-- prevent OTT.

> >>At horizontal how can the right arm be extended *and* have the right
upper
> >>arm against the ribcage?

> That's what you learn from the drill-- to turn your torso instead of
> just your arms.  If you keep both upper arms tightly against your rib
> cage while your torso turns, you will arrive at the right horizontal
> position.

Sir--How can my right arm be fully extended *and* have my right upper arm
still against my rib cage?
If I fully extend my right arm in *any* direction, except straight down, my
arm must leave my ribcage.
Are you suggesting that the club is horizontal whn my arms are full extended
and staright down?
 
 
 

Hogan's toe up to toe up drill - not for slicers

Post by bighorn_bi » Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:43:28

Quote:

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:36:03 -0500, "Perfect Impact"







> >> > >I've played for a long time with an incorrect forearm and clubface
>  rotation
> >> > >on the backswing. I get to a position at the top where the clubface
>  points
> >> > >to the sky. I'm basically playing with a shut clubface. The position
>  feels
> >> > >'strong', yet it is weak. This is beacuse if I do a proper downswing
> >> > >rotation, I'll smother the ball. My only chance is to do a reverse-roll
>  on
> >> > >the downswing and play closed - to - open through impact. The net
>  result is
> >> > >weak. My other option is to try to get down with virtually no forearm
> >> > >rotation and try and really clear my lower body to prevent the clubface
>  from
> >> > >closing any further. I believe that Duval plays this way.

> >> > You need to do what most books advise, practice the takeaway from
> >> > setup to horizontal over and over again--a full length mirror is very
> >> > very helpful in this.   When you arrive at horizontal, your arms
> >> > should be extended fully, and your shoulders are fully turned, you see
> >> > the ball off your right [sic?] shoulder.  Your right upper arm should be
> >> > touching your rib cage (meaning your turned your torso and not just
> >> > your arms), and the club toe should be pointing up--and the club shaft
> >> > aligned with the target line.

> >> I agree with most of this, except for the toe pointing up.  The toe does
> >> not point straight up at this point in a square-to-square swing.  Hogan
> >> did it, but he was fanning the club open.  That was part of his "secret"
> >> to eliminate hooks.  Most beginners, or even people who have been
> >> playing a long time with a "natural fade" do not need to do this.

> >> > If the toe is closed, simply fix
> >> > it--make sure it points up.

> >> No.  Pointing up is NOT square, it is open.

> See
> http://www.golftipsmag.com/content/pastissues/2000/may/takeaway.html

> This is the best and most comprehensive explanation I have seen on the
> takeaway--

> The overall concept is that when we do NOTHING with our wrists and
> forearms, simply turn our torso, the club head will be pointing up at
> horizontal BECAUSE it was square to the ball at address.  You would
> have to turn your wrists or forearms to change that.  The basic
> concept of making golf learnable-- is to keep it simple, reduce any
> need to do intricate manipulation of the club during the golf swing--
> because that introduces inconsistency!  

> I practice this move in a full-length mirror here in my office-- and
> it definitely helps on the course or driving range.  

I think the point you are missing is that fanning the clubface open
and shut is much more of a manipulation than keeping the clubface
square, because it involves rolling the forearms more.  It doesn't
seem like a manipulation to you now because you have trained yourself
to do it.  But if you train yourself to swing square,
you will find that is much less of a manipulation.

Pointing the toe up at the horizontal poisition is fanning the clubface
open, and leads to pointing the toe down at the top of the backswing.
Most slicers don't have a hope of recovering from there.