'Stroke and Distance' rule question

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Ramzi Khou » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Greetings all.

Considering the shortage of honest golfers these days, I've decided to do
all I can to join the ranks of the few, the proud, etc.

I have a problem, though.  Every once in a while I'll hit a tee shot
straight into the rough - not out of bounds, just not in fairway.  
Although I'm certain the ball won't be difficult to find when I'm on the
tee, sometimes the damn thing just can't be found in the thick stuff
within a minute or two, which is all the time I can spend searching w/o
irritating the group behind me.  

As I understand the rules, I'm supposed to be penalized stroke and
distance and hit my third shot from the tee again.  Obviously, I can't
just walk back 200+ yards and tee off again within the alloted time for
a given hole.  So, I just take a one-stroke penalty, drop where I think
the ball landed, and hit my third shot.

What are your opinions/recommendations on this?

Thanks

Ramzi

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by F-D-C Repor » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

(snip)

: I have a problem, though.  Every once in a while I'll hit a tee shot
: straight into the rough - not out of bounds, just not in fairway.  
: Although I'm certain the ball won't be difficult to find when I'm on the
: tee, sometimes the damn thing just can't be found in the thick stuff
: within a minute or two, which is all the time I can spend searching w/o
: irritating the group behind me.  
:
: As I understand the rules, I'm supposed to be penalized stroke and
: distance and hit my third shot from the tee again.  Obviously, I can't
: just walk back 200+ yards and tee off again within the alloted time for
: a given hole.  So, I just take a one-stroke penalty, drop where I think
: the ball landed, and hit my third shot.
:
: What are your opinions/recommendations on this?
:
: Thanks
:
: Ramzi

As long as we all understand the *actual* rule (stroke and distance) and
since we can't hit a provisional ball every time we miss a fairway, your
procedure is expeditious for casual golf BUT, you should take a TWO-STROKE
penalty.

Thus, instead of hitting three from the tee, you're lying three in the
fairway. This amounts to the same thing, if, of course, you concede that
your "provisional" or "penalty tee shot" would have landed where you end
up dropping it.

Adding only one stroke for your drop makes it equivalent to hitting into a
lateral hazard, which is not severe enough.

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by JoePe » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>Play the game in any manner you desire.  If your game is not played by
>the Rules, just DO NOT put that score in for handicapping purposes.
>Linda B.

Wait a second. Nothing in the Rules of Golf say anything about handicapping
 purposes. As a matter of fact, one could argue that the handicapping system
 encourages a form of cheating through equitable stroke control.

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Don Port » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Wait a second. Nothing in the Rules of Golf say anything about handicapping
> purposes. As a matter of fact, one could argue that the handicapping system
> encourages a form of cheating through equitable stroke control.

But handicapping systems assume a round is played according to the rules of
golf. If you can waive certain rules at your pleasure and still count the
round towards your handicap, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of
handicapping?

As to the original question, I think some sort of rules modification is needed
to allow players to forgo the long trek back to the tee. A two-stroke penalty
is probably more accurate than just one stroke, but a change is needed.

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Steve » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>>What are your opinions/recommendations on this?<<

The guys I play with are all pretty good players and have
played since they were all kids. Unless it is a tournament,
due to the time constraints, we will drop and d take a
stroke.

However, that person cannot participate in any part of a
match that is going on. He can't have his score count on
that hole since no one is losing greenbacks to an agreement
to waive rules for the sake of speed.

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'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Al Mayfie » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:



>>Wait a second. Nothing in the Rules of Golf say anything about handicapping
>> purposes. As a matter of fact, one could argue that the handicapping system
>> encourages a form of cheating through equitable stroke control.
>But handicapping systems assume a round is played according to the rules of
>golf. If you can waive certain rules at your pleasure and still count the
>round towards your handicap, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of
>handicapping?
>As to the original question, I think some sort of rules modification is needed
>to allow players to forgo the long trek back to the tee. A two-stroke penalty
>is probably more accurate than just one stroke, but a change is needed.

I'd really like to see the USGA change the Stroke & Distance penalty.
If I hit a 240 yard drive on a tight hole, and it winds up 1 foot
out-of-bounds, I tee it up again, hitting three.  My playing partner
whiffs his tee shot, and is still on the tee with me but is hitting
two.  I just don't see the equity here.  Any comments?
 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by bob kee » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Greetingd Ramzi,
I take it you probably never caddied. A caddies tip often depends on his
ability to find wayward shots. May I offer a solution, as your ball
exits the fairway mark its position with something in the area, a tree
in the background, a 150 yard maeker anything to give you a line to help
find your ball. What you will find is that you consistently over or
under estimate your lenght and you can adjust. If you have vision
problems ask the folks you are playing with to help. The game is
expensive enough without throwing away three bucks every time you mishit
one. Follow it until it stops.  

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Bobby Galve » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00

If you'd like to be true to the rules and not waste time, consider hitting a
provisional from the tee when you have doubt that you'll find the tee ball.
If the first ball isn't found declare it lost and the provosional lies 3,
with the proper stroke and distance.
The procedure you are using may allow you to feel better, but you're leaving
yourself one stroke to the better. A count to illustrate the point:
Stroke 1 - tee ball (lost)
Stroke 2 - penalty
Stroke 3 - drop from where you think the ball landed.

By the rules, you'd be hitting 3 from the tee, not from where the first ball
landed. You have also eliminated the risk of another mis-hit from the tee.

BTW - the rule that applies is 27-1 "Ball Lost or Out of Bounds." Stroke and
distance is the only option. No drop.

Cheers !!!

Quote:

> Greetings all.

> Considering the shortage of honest golfers these days, I've decided to do
> all I can to join the ranks of the few, the proud, etc.

> I have a problem, though.  Every once in a while I'll hit a tee shot
> straight into the rough - not out of bounds, just not in fairway.
> Although I'm certain the ball won't be difficult to find when I'm on the
> tee, sometimes the damn thing just can't be found in the thick stuff
> within a minute or two, which is all the time I can spend searching w/o
> irritating the group behind me.

> As I understand the rules, I'm supposed to be penalized stroke and
> distance and hit my third shot from the tee again.  Obviously, I can't
> just walk back 200+ yards and tee off again within the alloted time for
> a given hole.  So, I just take a one-stroke penalty, drop where I think
> the ball landed, and hit my third shot.

> What are your opinions/recommendations on this?

> Thanks

> Ramzi

--
====================================================
Bobby Galvez

====================================================
 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by John Luc » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> I'd really like to see the USGA change the Stroke & Distance penalty.
> If I hit a 240 yard drive on a tight hole, and it winds up 1 foot
> out-of-bounds, I tee it up again, hitting three.  My playing partner
> whiffs his tee shot, and is still on the tee with me but is hitting
> two.  I just don't see the equity here.  Any comments?

Well, he may have missed, but he STILL is in bounds, not OB.

Nothing unequitable here...

John...

--
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'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Steve H Ri » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>> I'd really like to see the USGA change the Stroke & Distance penalty.
>> If I hit a 240 yard drive on a tight hole, and it winds up 1 foot
>> out-of-bounds, I tee it up again, hitting three.  My playing partner
>> whiffs his tee shot, and is still on the tee with me but is hitting
>> two.  I just don't see the equity here.  Any comments?

WHY are you trying to hit 240 yard drives on a TIGHT hole?

Nobody's forcing you to...
Try it and succeed, you gain an advantage but fail and you pay the cost...
Up to YOU to balance potential gain/loss possibilities.

If you had hit a sensible 170 yard 5-iron (or even a reckless 220 yard 3-wood) in
the given scenario, then you would have been safe and have been holding an
advantage over your partner... (And  the difference means that 3 x 5-iron's would
put you onto or close to a 510 yard par 5 green, whereas your bad decision
leaves you with the same score without being any closer to that green and with it
all still to do....)

The bad decision just cost more than the bad shot, that's all!
Which is correct IMO, a bad shot that stays on the course is better than a bad
decision that does not.

SteveR

 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by John Vander Borgh » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>Play the game in any manner you desire.  If your game is not played by
>the Rules, just DO NOT put that score in for handicapping purposes.

You can still post the score for handicap purposes.  The rules for posting
scores say that for any hole not completed or played according to the rules
of golf you should take the score you most probably would have made.  Since
you probably would have gotten the second drive in play, taking the 2 stroke
penalty will most probably get you there.  Also, if you have a fairly low
handicap, Equitable Stroke Control will probably reduce the score anyway.
 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Don Port » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>The game is expensive enough without throwing away three bucks every time you
>mishit one. Follow it until it stops.  

Gee, do you really think most folks here play $3 golf balls? Isn't that kind
of steep for all those X-outs you see around courses? <g>
 
 
 

'Stroke and Distance' rule question

Post by Steve » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>>The rules for posting

scores say that for any hole not completed or played
according to the rules
of golf you should take the score you most probably would
have made.<<

Unless it has changed, I believe handicap dictates what can
be taken on a hole. If someone is a single handicaper, I
don't believe they can post more than a double-bogey, and
the handicap itself may even dictate how many.

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