Ryder/Presidents Cup

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Wayn » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:46:33


(AP) Top U.S. players began complaining two years ago that they had to play
a Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup every year, while players from Europe and the
rest of the world only had to compete in the matches every other year.

I thought it was a thrill and honour for the U.S. players to play for their
country. Why are they complaining? Why don't they just pick 12 different
players for each team?

(AP) about moving the Presidents Cup back one year -- and possibly leaving
it in odd-numbered years.

What's the difference? The Presidents Cup is currently played every other
year. This doesn't seem to solve the players' original concern.

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Pat McLea » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:46:14


Quote:
> (AP) Top U.S. players began complaining two years ago that they had to
play
> a Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup every year, while players from Europe and
the
> rest of the world only had to compete in the matches every other year.

> I thought it was a thrill and honour for the U.S. players to play for
their
> country. Why are they complaining? Why don't they just pick 12 different
> players for each team?

Hold on here.  Given where and when it started, the Ryder Cup can be
construed as "playing for your country", although even there I might
question it.  The President's Cup on the other hand, is 5 years old, and
it's been very obvious that it was created not so players can play for their
country, but so that the PGA Tour could cash in on the financial success the
Ryder Cup has enjoyed.  The players in that event play for the PGA Tour, or
whatever, but they are not playing for their country.  If the President's
Cup disappeared tomorrow very few people would be all that heartbroken.
Quote:

> (AP) about moving the Presidents Cup back one year -- and possibly leaving
> it in odd-numbered years.

> What's the difference? The Presidents Cup is currently played every other
> year. This doesn't seem to solve the players' original concern.


 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by \ » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:13:55

"Pat McLean" wrote ...

Quote:

> The President's Cup on the other hand, is 5 years old, and
> it's been very obvious that it was created not so players
> can play for their country, but so that the PGA Tour could
> cash in on the financial success the Ryder Cup has enjoyed.

That's easy to say, and there's no question there's a financial reward for
seeing the President's Cup succeed.  But you display something of a short
memory...

At the time when the President's Cup matches were launched, there was a fair
amount of e***ment within golf circles because the matches filled a void.
Namely, to give players outside the U.K. a stage upon which they could
showcase their considerable skills in a Ryder Cup-like format against the
US.  If you'll go back to the money lists of the early '90s, you'll find
names like Greg Norman, Nick Price, Steve Elkington, Ernie Els and other
international players not from the U.K. among the leaders.  And it's fair to
say they were fan favorites as well.

So while there might very well be a good financial reason for staging these
matches, if there weren't a demand for it, it never would have worked.  And
there wouldn't have been a demand for it if some of the world's best and
most popular players weren't being excluded from the Ryder Cup.

That's the real reason it was launched.

Randy

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Duk » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:51:22

Quote:

>(AP) Top U.S. players began complaining two years ago that they had to play
>a Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup every year, while players from Europe and the
>rest of the world only had to compete in the matches every other year.

>I thought it was a thrill and honour for the U.S. players to play for their
>country. Why are they complaining? Why don't they just pick 12 different
>players for each team?

Right on.  I don't know who these whining "top US players" are, but I'm
guessing it's that Mr. No Personality Duval and Scott "I love to ***" Choke.
Well, nobody's forcing them to play in President's cup. Stop whining and just
relinquish your spot. There's a list of about 100 golfers who would love to
take their place and play for their country, not to mention get into the
huge-money NEC invitational.
 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Stan The Ma » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:16:38

Quote:

>At the time when the President's Cup matches were launched, there was a fair
>amount of e***ment within golf circles because the matches filled a void.
>Namely, to give players outside the U.K. a stage upon which they could
>showcase their considerable skills in a Ryder Cup-like format against the
>US.  If you'll go back to the money lists of the early '90s, you'll find
>names like Greg Norman, Nick Price, Steve Elkington, Ernie Els and other
>international players not from the U.K. among the leaders.  And it's fair to
>say they were fan favorites as well.

>So while there might very well be a good financial reason for staging these
>matches, if there weren't a demand for it, it never would have worked.  And
>there wouldn't have been a demand for it if some of the world's best and
>most popular players weren't being excluded from the Ryder Cup.

>That's the real reason it was launched.

I think you are correct in that Greg Norman especially was a prime
mover. But the US Tour is the main beneficiary, if only because the
American golf fans can easily identify their team and will always
support it. The jingoism around the Ryder Cup, which some folk complain
about, is actually the main ingredient of its success as an
international event. It means that there will always be strong fan
support for the European team, wherever the event is played. But with
the Rest of the World team drawn from so many different continents,
it's difficult for fans to get behind the team.

But I quite like the suggestion elsewhere of a single three-way event
instead of two separate ones.

Stan

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Pat McLea » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:50:54


Quote:
> "Pat McLean" wrote ...

> > The President's Cup on the other hand, is 5 years old, and
> > it's been very obvious that it was created not so players
> > can play for their country, but so that the PGA Tour could
> > cash in on the financial success the Ryder Cup has enjoyed.

> That's easy to say, and there's no question there's a financial reward for
> seeing the President's Cup succeed.  But you display something of a short
> memory...

> At the time when the President's Cup matches were launched, there was a
fair
> amount of e***ment within golf circles because the matches filled a
void.
> Namely, to give players outside the U.K. a stage upon which they could
> showcase their considerable skills in a Ryder Cup-like format against the
> US.  If you'll go back to the money lists of the early '90s, you'll find
> names like Greg Norman, Nick Price, Steve Elkington, Ernie Els and other
> international players not from the U.K. among the leaders.  And it's fair
to
> say they were fan favorites as well.

> So while there might very well be a good financial reason for staging
these
> matches, if there weren't a demand for it, it never would have worked.
And
> there wouldn't have been a demand for it if some of the world's best and
> most popular players weren't being excluded from the Ryder Cup.

> That's the real reason it was launched.

You're not incorrect in your statement.  But your statement explains exactly
why no one considers it "playing for your country", and all these "it should
be honor" complaints ring hollow for that exact reason.

It's a nice event, don't get me wrong.  But it's hardly the Olympics or
Ryder Cup even when it comes to "playing for your country."

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Frostbac » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:44:19

The "playing for your country" stuff is just hype. It draws a certain
type of fan to the event, but it is just a golf match. The only winners
and losers are the players.

Rob

Quote:



> > "Pat McLean" wrote ...

> > > The President's Cup on the other hand, is 5 years old, and
> > > it's been very obvious that it was created not so players
> > > can play for their country, but so that the PGA Tour could
> > > cash in on the financial success the Ryder Cup has enjoyed.

> > That's easy to say, and there's no question there's a financial reward for
> > seeing the President's Cup succeed.  But you display something of a short
> > memory...

> > At the time when the President's Cup matches were launched, there was a
> fair
> > amount of e***ment within golf circles because the matches filled a
> void.
> > Namely, to give players outside the U.K. a stage upon which they could
> > showcase their considerable skills in a Ryder Cup-like format against the
> > US.  If you'll go back to the money lists of the early '90s, you'll find
> > names like Greg Norman, Nick Price, Steve Elkington, Ernie Els and other
> > international players not from the U.K. among the leaders.  And it's fair
> to
> > say they were fan favorites as well.

> > So while there might very well be a good financial reason for staging
> these
> > matches, if there weren't a demand for it, it never would have worked.
> And
> > there wouldn't have been a demand for it if some of the world's best and
> > most popular players weren't being excluded from the Ryder Cup.

> > That's the real reason it was launched.

> You're not incorrect in your statement.  But your statement explains exactly
> why no one considers it "playing for your country", and all these "it should
> be honor" complaints ring hollow for that exact reason.

> It's a nice event, don't get me wrong.  But it's hardly the Olympics or
> Ryder Cup even when it comes to "playing for your country."

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by \ » Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:26:07

It *is* just a golf match, and the "playing for your flag" thing, while not
totally a concoction of the media (players said it was the prime motivating
factor to earn a spot on the RC team long before the matches became a TV
attraction), has changed in meaning over the years.  The frenzy whipped up
by it becoming a national spectacle (not so much by the media "stirring" it
up, but rather just because it's now in living rooms around the world) has
changed the dynamic.

Fans share in the blame for it becoming this new "frenzied" event.  During
the '80s and '90s, fans became more and more insistent upon injecting
themselves into the event -- from streakers on the field to fans doing "the
wave" to the "YOU 'DA MAN!" idiots to untold numbers of examples of fans
trying to attract attention to themselves.  The media is not to blame for
this.  In fact, for many years, ABC (and perhaps other networks) had a
standing policy of keeping the camera off these people.  Some networks still
avoid it.

Sorry, I wandered a little off the subject.  So what's new?

Randy


Quote:
> The "playing for your country" stuff is just hype. It draws a certain
> type of fan to the event, but it is just a golf match. The only winners
> and losers are the players.

> Rob




> > > "Pat McLean" wrote ...

> > > > The President's Cup on the other hand, is 5 years old, and
> > > > it's been very obvious that it was created not so players
> > > > can play for their country, but so that the PGA Tour could
> > > > cash in on the financial success the Ryder Cup has enjoyed.

> > > That's easy to say, and there's no question there's a financial reward
for
> > > seeing the President's Cup succeed.  But you display something of a
short
> > > memory...

> > > At the time when the President's Cup matches were launched, there was
a
> > fair
> > > amount of e***ment within golf circles because the matches filled a
> > void.
> > > Namely, to give players outside the U.K. a stage upon which they could
> > > showcase their considerable skills in a Ryder Cup-like format against
the
> > > US.  If you'll go back to the money lists of the early '90s, you'll
find
> > > names like Greg Norman, Nick Price, Steve Elkington, Ernie Els and
other
> > > international players not from the U.K. among the leaders.  And it's
fair
> > to
> > > say they were fan favorites as well.

> > > So while there might very well be a good financial reason for staging
> > these
> > > matches, if there weren't a demand for it, it never would have worked.
> > And
> > > there wouldn't have been a demand for it if some of the world's best
and
> > > most popular players weren't being excluded from the Ryder Cup.

> > > That's the real reason it was launched.

> > You're not incorrect in your statement.  But your statement explains
exactly
> > why no one considers it "playing for your country", and all these "it
should
> > be honor" complaints ring hollow for that exact reason.

> > It's a nice event, don't get me wrong.  But it's hardly the Olympics or
> > Ryder Cup even when it comes to "playing for your country."

 
 
 

Ryder/Presidents Cup

Post by Frostbac » Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:14:40

IMHO, the Ryder Cup Team is a status quo thing among players. You get on
the Ryder Cup team, and you are one of the top dogs. Of course, once on
the team, the team dynamic sets in, and the team identiy becomes an
important issue, and the rest follows. It starts, however, with the
status quo thing. If that is lost, the rest follows. Look at the Davis
Cup, for example.

Rob

Quote:

> It *is* just a golf match, and the "playing for your flag" thing, while not
> totally a concoction of the media (players said it was the prime motivating
> factor to earn a spot on the RC team long before the matches became a TV
> attraction), has changed in meaning over the years.

snip....