Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Sijt ghij die vermeetele » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 07:56:36


2002 Berlin (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
2002 Rome (clay) F WILLIAMS 7-6(6) 6-4
2003 Charleston (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-3 6-4
--
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:25:35

Notice Serena's GS ratio to Henin's? Notice who is the better player in big
tournaments when it counts? Notice sympathetic bias is not the same as
reality. Notice Henin how hen will never be one of the greater players in
tennis? Need any more help?

--
- JMM



Quote:
> 2002 Berlin (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
> 2002 Rome (clay) F WILLIAMS 7-6(6) 6-4
> 2003 Charleston (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-3 6-4
> --


 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Steve Jaro » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:43:33

this guy is obviously a belgian who's come by here to yack about henin
before the big match.

if henin wins, he'll flood the ng with celebratory posts. if she loses, we
won't hear another peep out of him.

unless he's also a clijsters fan...

--
"one of the most remarkable characteristics of
human nature is ... the freedom from envy which
the present displays towards the future."

- Lotze


Quote:
> Notice Serena's GS ratio to Henin's? Notice who is the better player in
big
> tournaments when it counts? Notice sympathetic bias is not the same as
> reality. Notice Henin how hen will never be one of the greater players in
> tennis? Need any more help?

> --
> - JMM



> > 2002 Berlin (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
> > 2002 Rome (clay) F WILLIAMS 7-6(6) 6-4
> > 2003 Charleston (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-3 6-4
> > --


 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:47:47

:) Henin, to me, is the female Roddick -- so many people (especially Euros
and Whisper) want her to be The Big Thing and she's is s-o-o not.  She'll be
a solid contender in the top five  for a few yars - but isn't on par with
SW, VW, Hingis, or hell--even Davenport or Capriati.

Henin is one of the most overrated players on tour and it's a joke to see so
many people treating her like she's going to be something - she's not.
There's not enough there. Only enough to keep things interesting and let you
down.

--
- JMM


Quote:
> this guy is obviously a belgian who's come by here to yack about henin
> before the big match.

> if henin wins, he'll flood the ng with celebratory posts. if she loses, we
> won't hear another peep out of him.

> unless he's also a clijsters fan...

> --
> "one of the most remarkable characteristics of
> human nature is ... the freedom from envy which
> the present displays towards the future."

> - Lotze



> > Notice Serena's GS ratio to Henin's? Notice who is the better player in
> big
> > tournaments when it counts? Notice sympathetic bias is not the same as
> > reality. Notice Henin how hen will never be one of the greater players
in
> > tennis? Need any more help?

> > --
> > - JMM


message

> > > 2002 Berlin (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
> > > 2002 Rome (clay) F WILLIAMS 7-6(6) 6-4
> > > 2003 Charleston (clay) F HENIN-HARDENNE 6-3 6-4
> > > --

 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Lloy » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:08:09

Quote:

> Henin is one of the most overrated players on tour and it's a joke to see
so
> many people treating her like she's going to be something - she's not.
> There's not enough there. Only enough to keep things interesting and let
you
> down.

So you're one of those knowledgeable people who said that Justine would
never make Top Ten, Top Five, etc, and still she keeps on coming.....Number
three now or hadn't you noticed?
   BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game, as
well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen to
him than to you.
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:11:09


Quote:


> > Henin is one of the most overrated players on tour and it's a joke to
see
> so
> > many people treating her like she's going to be something - she's not.
> > There's not enough there. Only enough to keep things interesting and let
> you
> > down.

> So you're one of those knowledgeable people who said that Justine would
> never make Top Ten, Top Five, etc, and still she keeps on
coming.....Number
> three now or hadn't you noticed?

I don't recall saying she'd never make the top 10. I've actually said she
WOULD make the top 10 but would never be among the truly great players
(great players have to win Slams... sorry the Wisconsin Dunkin Donuts Open
doesn't count -- they need to be _real tournaments_ -- -_majors_.)

Quote:
>    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game, as
> well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen to
> him than to you.

You just prefer llistening to anyone who agrees with you. As the world is
full of idiots (being a good tennis player doesn't make McEnroe right about
everything) and you will never be lonely, Lloyd. You can quote me -- Henin
is never going to be one of the top players in this game ever. She may stay
in the top 5 for a while but she's got a glass cieling...it's called
"insufficient talent." (I'm not saying she lacks skill -but plenty of
players with some skill never become great even when the do crack the top
slot -- remember when a guy name Rios was #1 on the men's side....he was
another "great talent.")

Get a clue, Lloyd. :)

-JMM

 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:17:10

I should add -- getting a "ranking" doesn't prove nothng in a climate of
mediocrity. Top 3 is damn good, though -- but who will care that she cracked
the top 3 in ranking when she has no GS titles (and _won't_ have any, most
likely). When I say "great player," I really mean "multi-slam winner."  Then
you have what you've done and what you have potential to do...Henin is too
weak physically to *** a tour of VWs, SWs, Lindseys, Mauresmos,
Capriatis -- etc. She'll win a match against a "hitter" now and again but
sooner or later nature will beat her .. nature and simple f**king genetics.
The direction things are going in doens't really allow for the Henins of the
world to achieve what a Monica, VW, SW, -- heck even Capriati can. (That
said, her making top 3 is a testament that she _does_ have some ability --
just not enough to matter in the history books.)

Again - get a clue, Lloyd. :) Learn some common sense. :) Stop trying so
hard to pretend you're some kind of tennis intellectual-- you're not.

--
- JMM


Quote:




> > > Henin is one of the most overrated players on tour and it's a joke to
> see
> > so
> > > many people treating her like she's going to be something - she's not.
> > > There's not enough there. Only enough to keep things interesting and
let
> > you
> > > down.

> > So you're one of those knowledgeable people who said that Justine would
> > never make Top Ten, Top Five, etc, and still she keeps on
> coming.....Number
> > three now or hadn't you noticed?

> I don't recall saying she'd never make the top 10. I've actually said she
> WOULD make the top 10 but would never be among the truly great players
> (great players have to win Slams... sorry the Wisconsin Dunkin Donuts Open
> doesn't count -- they need to be _real tournaments_ -- -_majors_.)

> >    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game,
as
> > well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen
to
> > him than to you.

> You just prefer llistening to anyone who agrees with you. As the world is
> full of idiots (being a good tennis player doesn't make McEnroe right
about
> everything) and you will never be lonely, Lloyd. You can quote me -- Henin
> is never going to be one of the top players in this game ever. She may
stay
> in the top 5 for a while but she's got a glass cieling...it's called
> "insufficient talent." (I'm not saying she lacks skill -but plenty of
> players with some skill never become great even when the do crack the top
> slot -- remember when a guy name Rios was #1 on the men's side....he was
> another "great talent.")

> Get a clue, Lloyd. :)

> -JMM

 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by big ben » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:21:08

Quote:

>    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game, as
> well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen to
> him than to you.

this may be true in the absolute, but as a practical matter, you can only have
so many "greats" at any time.  right now, the potential great players are
venus and serena.  it seems hard to say that venus, serena, clijsters, and
henin-hardenne are *all* potential greats at the same time.
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:25:20

--
- JMM

Quote:

> >    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game,
as
> > well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen
to
> > him than to you.

> this may be true in the absolute, but as a practical matter, you can only
have
> so many "greats" at any time.  right now, the potential great players are
> venus and serena.  it seems hard to say that venus, serena, clijsters, and
> henin-hardenne are *all* potential greats at the same time.

Yes - and what do those 3 players have in common? There's a _pattern_
there....

McEnroe "liking to watch" proves nothing ... a lot of guys "liked to watch
Rios" ....

 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Jack » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:59:39

Quote:
> >    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the game,
as
> > well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to listen
to
> > him than to you.

> this may be true in the absolute, but as a practical matter, you can only
have
> so many "greats" at any time.  right now, the potential great players are
> venus and serena.  it seems hard to say that venus, serena, clijsters, and
> henin-hardenne are *all* potential greats at the same time.

1980: King, Goolagong, Evert, Navratilova
1990: Graf, Seles, Navratilova, Sanchez Vicario
2003: ???
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Lloy » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:31:46

Quote:

> I don't recall saying she'd never make the top 10.

But I don't recall you DID (go on, prove you did). Well, I did make this
prediction in the first week of January 2001 when she was ranked around
#38 - and there were plenty of demurrers then.

I've actually said she

Quote:
> WOULD make the top 10

When? After she'd already  been there a year?

but would never be among the truly great players

Quote:
> (great players have to win Slams... sorry the Wisconsin Dunkin Donuts Open
> doesn't count -- they need to be _real tournaments_ -- -_majors_.)

Funny but this was EXACTLY what was being said before last year's FO about
Serena but this has obviously been forgotten.

Quote:
> You just prefer llistening to anyone who agrees with you.

No, I prefer to listen to somebody who at least in this instance is
displaying at least some grasp of the game.

As the world is

Quote:
> full of idiots

Yes indeed...

(being a good tennis player doesn't make McEnroe right about

Quote:
> everything) and you will never be lonely, Lloyd.

Wonderful non-sequitur here.....

You can quote me -- Henin

Quote:
> is never going to be one of the top players in this game ever. She may
stay
> in the top 5 for a while but she's got a glass cieling...it's called
> "insufficient talent."

Really? I think I know approximately a thousand times more than you about
such things judging by your posts on this ng........

(I'm not saying she lacks skill -but plenty of

Quote:
> players with some skill never become great even when the do crack the top
> slot -- remember when a guy name Rios was #1 on the men's side....he was
> another "great talent.")

Also lacked application. Justine has this in abundance; what she may be
lacking in is self-belief. However "lack of self-belief" is not the same as
"insufficient talent" in any world I recognize.

Quote:
> Get a clue, Lloyd. :)

The irony of this advice from the likes of you.....
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Lloy » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:01:13

Quote:

> this may be true in the absolute, but as a practical matter, you can only
have
> so many "greats" at any time.  right now, the potential great players are
> venus and serena.  it seems hard to say that venus, serena, clijsters, and
> henin-hardenne are *all* potential greats at the same time.

Apparently the distribution of "potential greats" must be even over time
according to some cosmic law only accessible to the likes of Benz.....and
possibly Michael......
 
 
 

Notice how Serena always had a hard time on clay against Henin

Post by Michae » Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:32:50

Vicario is great?

"> 1980: King, Goolagong, Evert, Navratilova"

Anamoly. You had to go back over 2 decades...

"> 2003: ??? "

SW. VW (maybe). That's it. Jenny is slipping. Davenport hasn't been
impressive for a while. Seles is done. Hingis is gone. Mauresmo is a choker.

There's really not a lot to get e***d about when you really look at it...

--
- JMM


Quote:
> > >    BTW John McEnroe himself rates her as a potential great of the
game,
> as
> > > well as the player he most likes to watch. Funny but I prefer to
listen
> to
> > > him than to you.

> > this may be true in the absolute, but as a practical matter, you can
only
> have
> > so many "greats" at any time.  right now, the potential great players
are
> > venus and serena.  it seems hard to say that venus, serena, clijsters,
and
> > henin-hardenne are *all* potential greats at the same time.

> 1980: King, Goolagong, Evert, Navratilova
> 1990: Graf, Seles, Navratilova, Sanchez Vicario
> 2003: ???