best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by wenquan le » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:57:28


fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
drama etc? my memories:

2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
not 100% convinced...

2005: overrated, in my opinion
fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
- fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
4th set showed.

2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
seemingly better player lost...

i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
karlovic again? ...

roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
later...

the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
mentality are supreme...

for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

all the best,

wenquan lee

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by Whispe » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:07:31

Quote:

> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> drama etc? my memories:

> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> not 100% convinced...

> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> 4th set showed.

> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> seemingly better player lost...

> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> karlovic again? ...

> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> later...

> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> mentality are supreme...

> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> all the best,

> wenquan lee

I think this last win over Roddick will go down as his most memorable
slam win.  It set several big records - most slams, longest ever slam
final (in games), crazy long 5th set - & both guys played great tennis
with little nerves.  Maybe the serve was a little *** - it was
often 30-0, 40-15 to server so not many tight games in that 5th set, but
can't fault it - beats 2008 imo.  It helped that Roddick felt little
pressure as the huge underdog, & it was also his 3rd Wimbledon final so
not a new experience.

Roger is lucky to have a match like this on his resume & it's a great
gift from Roddick.

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by stephen » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:29:06

I know it's not a popular choice, but IMO the last match we saw 4 days
ago was the best. it was every bit as exciting/dramatic as the 08 final,
but for a much longer period of time.

simply put, it's the most tense and dramatic match i've ever seen.


Quote:
> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> drama etc? my memories:

> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> not 100% convinced...

> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> 4th set showed.

> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> seemingly better player lost...

> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> karlovic again? ...

> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> later...

> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> mentality are supreme...

> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> all the best,

> wenquan lee


 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by stephen » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:29:45

Quote:


>> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

>> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
>> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

>> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
>> drama etc? my memories:

>> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
>> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
>> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
>> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
>> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
>> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
>> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
>> not 100% convinced...

>> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
>> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
>> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
>> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

>> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
>> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
>> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
>> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
>> 4th set showed.

>> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
>> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
>> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
>> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
>> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
>> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
>> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
>> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
>> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

>> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
>> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
>> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
>> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
>> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
>> seemingly better player lost...

>> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
>> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
>> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
>> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
>> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
>> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
>> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
>> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
>> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
>> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
>> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

>> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
>> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

>> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
>> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
>> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
>> karlovic again? ...

>> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
>> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
>> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
>> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
>> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
>> later...

>> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
>> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
>> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
>> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

>> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
>> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
>> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
>> mentality are supreme...

>> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

>> all the best,

>> wenquan lee

> I think this last win over Roddick will go down as his most memorable
> slam win.  It set several big records - most slams, longest ever slam
> final (in games), crazy long 5th set - & both guys played great tennis
> with little nerves.  Maybe the serve was a little *** - it was
> often 30-0, 40-15 to server so not many tight games in that 5th set, but
> can't fault it - beats 2008 imo.  It helped that Roddick felt little
> pressure as the huge underdog, & it was also his 3rd Wimbledon final so
> not a new experience.

> Roger is lucky to have a match like this on his resume

yeah, well said.

--
10 years from now we'll still be on top.

- p. diddy, 1997

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by Shikari Shambh » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:44:25


Quote:

> > fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> > 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> > 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> > anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> > drama etc? my memories:

> > 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> > memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> > first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> > like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> > the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> > and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> > would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> > not 100% convinced...

> > 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> > fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> > net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> > this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> > 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> > nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> > - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> > he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> > 4th set showed.

> > 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> > saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> > hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> > far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> > better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> > clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> > won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> > hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> > breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> > 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> > went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> > than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> > than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> > opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> > seemingly better player lost...

> > i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> > quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> > things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> > played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> > all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> > like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> > to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> > rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> > manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> > this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> > break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> > best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> > nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> > 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> > finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> > aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> > karlovic again? ...

> > roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> > judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> > run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> > required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> > outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> > later...

> > the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> > another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> > 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> > 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> > yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> > player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> > ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> > mentality are supreme...

> > for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> > all the best,

> > wenquan lee

> I think this last win over Roddick will go down as his most memorable
> slam win. ?It set several big records - most slams, longest ever slam
> final (in games), crazy long 5th set - & both guys played great tennis
> with little nerves. ?Maybe the serve was a little *** - it was
> often 30-0, 40-15 to server so not many tight games in that 5th set, but
> can't fault it - beats 2008 imo. ?It helped that Roddick felt little
> pressure as the huge underdog, & it was also his 3rd Wimbledon final so
> not a new experience.

> Roger is lucky to have a match like this on his resume & it's a great
> gift from Roddick.- Hide quoted text -

The whole fifth set can be summarized as " I can't win so I will use
all my concentration to make sure that I don't lose." When Roddick's
concentration/stamina faltered, the match was over. If it went the
other way, it would have been a gift from Federer. It was an amazing
display of endurance and survival skills. To do that so deep in the
fifth set was a treat to watch.

It's just Wimbledon.

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by CloudsRes » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:30:31

Hhow would the Federer from the last two years handle Goran's lefty-
serve for 3-4 hours?
 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by TT » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:44:09

Quote:

> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> drama etc? my memories:

> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> not 100% convinced...

> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> 4th set showed.

> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> seemingly better player lost...

> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> karlovic again? ...

> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> later...

> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> mentality are supreme...

> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> all the best,

> wenquan lee

2008 final. Best quality and most exciting.
Oh and better player definitely did not lose.

2009 final was poor quality and big serving. Somehow I didn't even get
e***d about it.
It would have been better if Roddick had won, now it was just one more
match where Federer beats Roddick, even though Roddick was very close
due Federer's below par groundgame.
Very telling about the quality of play was that Roddick seemed to be
stronger from the baseline.

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by TT » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:47:17

Quote:


>> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

>> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
>> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

>> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
>> drama etc? my memories:

>> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
>> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
>> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
>> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
>> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
>> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
>> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
>> not 100% convinced...

>> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
>> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
>> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
>> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

>> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
>> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
>> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
>> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
>> 4th set showed.

>> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
>> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
>> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
>> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
>> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
>> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
>> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
>> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
>> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

>> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
>> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
>> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
>> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
>> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
>> seemingly better player lost...

>> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
>> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
>> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
>> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
>> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
>> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
>> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
>> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
>> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
>> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
>> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

>> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
>> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

>> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
>> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
>> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
>> karlovic again? ...

>> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
>> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
>> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
>> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
>> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
>> later...

>> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
>> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
>> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
>> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

>> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
>> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
>> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
>> mentality are supreme...

>> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

>> all the best,

>> wenquan lee

> 2008 final. Best quality and most exciting.
> Oh and better player definitely did not lose.

> 2009 final was poor quality and big serving. Somehow I didn't even get
> e***d about it.
> It would have been better if Roddick had won, now it was just one more
> match where Federer beats Roddick, even though Roddick was very close
> due Federer's below par groundgame.
> Very telling about the quality of play was that Roddick seemed to be
> stronger from the baseline.

Also what was wrong in 2009 final was that we knew all along that these
are not the two best players in the world, unlike in 2008 final.

How do you figure 2008 was slow grass?
Roddick has made 3 finals on this slow grass, no?

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by Shake » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:59:07


Quote:
> Hhow would the Federer from the last two years handle Goran's lefty-
> serve for 3-4 hours?

the same way that sampras did. hold his own serve to get into a t/b
and wait for goran to implode.
 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by Javier Gonzale » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:06:44

Quote:

> Hhow would the Federer from the last two years handle Goran's lefty-
> serve for 3-4 hours?

Huh? Not even Goran could handle it for 3-4 hours ;)
 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by john » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:40:43


Quote:


>>> fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

>>> 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
>>> 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

>>> anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
>>> drama etc? my memories:

>>> 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
>>> memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
>>> first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
>>> like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
>>> the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
>>> and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
>>> would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
>>> not 100% convinced...

>>> 2005: overrated, in my opinion
>>> fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
>>> net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
>>> this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

>>> 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
>>> nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
>>> - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
>>> he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
>>> 4th set showed.

>>> 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
>>> saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
>>> hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
>>> far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
>>> better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
>>> clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
>>> won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
>>> hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
>>> breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

>>> 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
>>> went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
>>> than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
>>> than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
>>> opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
>>> seemingly better player lost...

>>> i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
>>> quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
>>> things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
>>> played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
>>> all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
>>> like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
>>> to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
>>> rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
>>> manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
>>> this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
>>> break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

>>> best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
>>> nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

>>> 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
>>> finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
>>> aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
>>> karlovic again? ...

>>> roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
>>> judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
>>> run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
>>> required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
>>> outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
>>> later...

>>> the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
>>> another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
>>> 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
>>> 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

>>> yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
>>> player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
>>> ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
>>> mentality are supreme...

>>> for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

>>> all the best,

>>> wenquan lee

>> 2008 final. Best quality and most exciting.
>> Oh and better player definitely did not lose.

>> 2009 final was poor quality and big serving. Somehow I didn't even get
>> e***d about it.
>> It would have been better if Roddick had won, now it was just one more
>> match where Federer beats Roddick, even though Roddick was very close due
>> Federer's below par groundgame.
>> Very telling about the quality of play was that Roddick seemed to be
>> stronger from the baseline.

> Also what was wrong in 2009 final was that we knew all along that these
> are not the two best players in the world, unlike in 2008 final.

Stupid comment,  the players don't have to be the best in the world to be in
grand slam finals and they only have to be the best two in the tournament,
Murray and Djokovic don't deserve to be the 2nd best player in the world if
they can't reach a grand slam final when they were favourit to reach that
stage
against player who were ranked lower than them.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> How do you figure 2008 was slow grass?
> Roddick has made 3 finals on this slow grass, no?

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by CloudsRes » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:36:37

The French Open was probably his most epic run, as there seems to have
been some tense moments as early as round 2.  Too bad there were a
couple of stinkers (QF and Final) mixed in there though.  The main
drama was how he would deal with the pressure from Nadal's absence.
To his credit, he didn't ***it away.
 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by wenquan le » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:24:43


Quote:

> > fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> > 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> > 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> > anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> > drama etc? my memories:

> > 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> > memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> > first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> > like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> > the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> > and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> > would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> > not 100% convinced...

> > 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> > fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> > net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> > this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> > 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> > nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> > - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> > he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> > 4th set showed.

> > 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> > saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> > hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> > far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> > better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> > clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> > won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> > hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> > breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> > 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> > went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> > than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> > than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> > opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> > seemingly better player lost...

> > i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> > quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> > things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> > played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> > all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> > like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> > to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> > rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> > manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> > this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> > break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> > best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> > nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> > 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> > finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> > aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> > karlovic again? ...

> > roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> > judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> > run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> > required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> > outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> > later...

> > the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> > another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> > 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> > 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> > yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> > player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> > ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> > mentality are supreme...

> > for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> > all the best,

> > wenquan lee

> I think this last win over Roddick will go down as his most memorable
> slam win. ?It set several big records - most slams, longest ever slam
> final (in games), crazy long 5th set - & both guys played great tennis
> with little nerves. ?Maybe the serve was a little *** - it was
> often 30-0, 40-15 to server so not many tight games in that 5th set, but
> can't fault it - beats 2008 imo. ?It helped that Roddick felt little
> pressure as the huge underdog, & it was also his 3rd Wimbledon final so
> not a new experience.

> Roger is lucky to have a match like this on his resume & it's a great
> gift from Roddick.

true.

all the best,

wenquan lee

 
 
 

best wimbledon final out of the fed-nadal and fed-rod trilogies?

Post by wenquan le » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:25:46


Quote:
> I know it's not a popular choice, but IMO the last match we saw 4 days
> ago was the best. it was every bit as exciting/dramatic as the 08 final,
> but for a much longer period of time.

> simply put, it's the most tense and dramatic match i've ever seen.


> > fed's now had trilogies of wim finals against 2 players:

> > 04, 05, 09 - fed v roddick (3-0)
> > 06, 07, 08 - fed v rafa (2-1)

> > anyone care to list their favourite for any reason(s), e.g. quality,
> > drama etc? my memories:

> > 2004: the bathtub beats the kitchen sink
> > memorable for andy just bludgeoning the hell out of the ball for the
> > first half, and all with eyes bulging and a goatee that made him look
> > like one of those evil truckers from those road horror movies... after
> > the rain, fed remembers he needs to volley and earns a pivotal win,
> > and confidence boost - what would have happened had he lost? likely he
> > would have won just (or nearly) as much, but in a slower time, but i'm
> > not 100% convinced...

> > 2005: overrated, in my opinion
> > fed played very well, yes, but rod really wasn't that great, esp up at
> > net. can't compare with 84 or 99 quality of wim finals, nowhere near:
> > this was the worst rod of all his 3 finals.

> > 2006: not yet, rafa, but not bad
> > nadal still finding his grass feet, but comes back from a 0-6 1st set
> > - fighting hard, as ever. should've won the 2nd set, but even though
> > he took the 3rd breaker, fed was still a class above on grass, as the
> > 4th set showed.

> > 2007: still the champ on grass, but what's with this gold jacket?
> > saw this in a room without windows (more like prison cell) in
> > hongkong's infamous chungking mansions on a backpacking tour of the
> > far east... nadal was no longer just the apprentice - he seemed the
> > better player for much of the match, but fed's serve and play was so
> > clutch in the tiebreakers and that 5th set, especially after nadal had
> > won the 4th 6-2 and fed had seemingly cracked a little ("turn the
> > hawkeye off! sh*t, it's killing me, man!). as the previous year, 2
> > breaks of rafa's serve in the last set.

> > 2008: welcome back to paris, monsieur nadal
> > went on and on and on and on, when will it end? the grass looks slower
> > than clay and rafa is getting *everything* back... fed playing better
> > than last year (forehand was amazing), but neither the surface nor his
> > opponent cut him any slack with his attacking play: again, the
> > seemingly better player lost...

> > i can accept the arguments that it may be the "greatest ever" (overall
> > quality, opponents #1&2, their story at wimbledon etc), but a few
> > things niggle. first, the slow grass - this match could have been
> > played anywhere, it was not a grasscourt match on the biggest stage of
> > all. second, rafa was really taking the p*ss by serving what seemed
> > like 98% of his serves (for at least the 1st 2 sets, or so it seemed)
> > to fed's bh, and fed being unable to do anything against them. not
> > rafa's fault, and perfectly legitimate - also better than a coaching
> > manual for showing how to exploit a weakness, but it did grate that
> > this simple ploy could be so effectice for so long, and fed couldn't
> > break free of his shackles to just wallop a bh return...

> > best/most outrageous bit: those 2 points in the 4th set breaker -
> > nadal's pass on the run and then fed's bh pass at mp down - no way!!

> > 2009: sampras & ivanisevic, updated and upgraded for the 00s
> > finally, looks a bit more like a grasscourt match ... fed serving 50
> > aces!! 50!! thanks for coming, pete!! er, what was fed saying about
> > karlovic again? ...

> > roddick outrallying fed from the back, some smart play, and astute
> > judging of when to come into net... and where did that bh, esp on the
> > run, come from? ... smarter and faster than 04, and as powerful when
> > required, but fed flicks the switch in the 2nd set breaker with an
> > outrageous half-volley and rod fluffs his volley a few points
> > later...

> > the american doesn't give up, does a job on fed in set 4 after losing
> > another breaker and a 5-set final for the 3rd year running... 5-5,
> > 6-6, 7-7, 8-8, 9-9... wtf??!! all adrenalin, serves in overdrive, this
> > 5th set has even more drama and tension than last year but...

> > yet again, for the third year running, i think the seemingly better
> > player loses, but fed deserves credit for*** in there and
> > ruthlesssly exploiting his chance. his physical fitness and champion
> > mentality are supreme...

> > for andy, one lost serve loses him the match - not easy to take...

> > all the best,

> > wenquan lee

it's got quite a few more admirers than you might think, though  ;o)

i really enjoyed it, in a ***ic (i.e. the tension was torture)
way.

all the best,

wenquan lee