Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Vari L. Cinick » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 08:17:52


Top 5 in Titles

1. Connors - 109
2. Lendl - 94
3. McEnroe - 77
4. Federer - 76
5. Sampras - 64

Top 5 in Match Wins

1. Connors - 1222
2. Lendl - 1070
3. Vilas - 920
4. Agassi - 870
5. McEnroe - 867

Federer is now at 862 wins.

McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by arnab. » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 16:49:17

Quote:

> Top 5 in Titles

> 1. Connors - 109

> 2. Lendl - 94

> 3. McEnroe - 77

> 4. Federer - 76

> 5. Sampras - 64

> Top 5 in Match Wins

> 1. Connors - 1222

> 2. Lendl - 1070

> 3. Vilas - 920

> 4. Agassi - 870

> 5. McEnroe - 867

> Federer is now at 862 wins.

> McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?  

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by MBDun » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:10:44

Quote:

> It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?

It is simple: back those days there were double the # tournaments (peaking around 140+ 1977) annually which allowed players to tailor their schedules without excess travels/mandatory requirements. And as all players were scattered to play at their own favourite tournaments/tours - the average quality of a draw was inevitably lesser.

Note: of Mac's 77 titles....50+ are indoor titles..

.mikko

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Iceber » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:46:20


Quote:

> > Top 5 in Titles

> > 1. Connors - 109

> > 2. Lendl - 94

> > 3. McEnroe - 77

> > 4. Federer - 76

> > 5. Sampras - 64

> > Top 5 in Match Wins

> > 1. Connors - 1222

> > 2. Lendl - 1070

> > 3. Vilas - 920

> > 4. Agassi - 870

> > 5. McEnroe - 867

> > Federer is now at 862 wins.

> > McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?

what? Fed never gets easy-peasy or fixed draws?!! LOL also we all know
the clowns don't even bother trying against Fed, whereas they go all
out vs Djoker,Nadal or Murray. I would've bet my house on the SF vs
Warwinka the other day.
 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Patrick Keho » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:40:07


Quote:


> > > Top 5 in Titles

> > > 1. Connors - 109

> > > 2. Lendl - 94

> > > 3. McEnroe - 77

> > > 4. Federer - 76

> > > 5. Sampras - 64

> > > Top 5 in Match Wins

> > > 1. Connors - 1222

> > > 2. Lendl - 1070

> > > 3. Vilas - 920

> > > 4. Agassi - 870

> > > 5. McEnroe - 867

> > > Federer is now at 862 wins.

> > > McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> > It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?

> what? Fed never gets easy-peasy or fixed draws?!! LOL also we all know
> the clowns don't even bother trying against Fed, whereas they go all
> out vs Djoker,Nadal or Murray. I would've bet my house on the SF vs
> Warwinka the other day.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

What about your buddy Canes and Nalby and Haas and Hewitt at Halle and
Isner at DC and Fish in Miami in 2009?... and Falla and Benneteau at
Wimbledon, they nearly gave him a stroke out there... and Haas at the
FO in 2009 and Delpo at the USO 2009, etc... don't be such a suck...
stop whining... :)

P

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Booge » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:26:57

Quote:

> Top 5 in Titles

> 1. Connors - 109

> 2. Lendl - 94

> 3. McEnroe - 77

> 4. Federer - 76

> 5. Sampras - 64

> Top 5 in Match Wins

> 1. Connors - 1222

> 2. Lendl - 1070

> 3. Vilas - 920

> 4. Agassi - 870

> 5. McEnroe - 867

> Federer is now at 862 wins.

> McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

I think Fed will likely end up just being third on both lists by the time he retires.  No way is he winning 19 more titles and 209 more matches to get to the second spot on those lists.
 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Patrick Keho » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:44:00


Quote:

> > Top 5 in Titles

> > 1. Connors - 109

> > 2. Lendl - 94

> > 3. McEnroe - 77

> > 4. Federer - 76

> > 5. Sampras - 64

> > Top 5 in Match Wins

> > 1. Connors - 1222

> > 2. Lendl - 1070

> > 3. Vilas - 920

> > 4. Agassi - 870

> > 5. McEnroe - 867

> > Federer is now at 862 wins.

> > McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above? ?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Connors won a LOT of 64 and 32 man draw events according to a bio I
read on him 25 years ago... quicky indoor events in California/US
indoor hardcourt events, many of which are gone now...

P

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Vari L. Cinick » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:49:36


Quote:

>> Top 5 in Titles

>> 1. Connors - 109

>> 2. Lendl - 94

>> 3. McEnroe - 77

>> 4. Federer - 76

>> 5. Sampras - 64

>> Top 5 in Match Wins

>> 1. Connors - 1222

>> 2. Lendl - 1070

>> 3. Vilas - 920

>> 4. Agassi - 870

>> 5. McEnroe - 867

>> Federer is now at 862 wins.

>> McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> I think Fed will likely end up just being third on both lists by the time he retires.  No way is he winning 19 more titles and 209 more matches to get to the second spot on those lists.

Depends on how long he can keep his freshness and how long he wants to play.

Surely, he can garner 209 more match wins if he plays as long as Connors
did. Not that I think he will play that long.

Titles are harder but then he has defied all odds and won 9 titles over
the past 12 months.

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Pelle Svansl? » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:53:53


Quote:

>> It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe
>> (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of
>> relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in
>> order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact
>> that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL.
>> Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands
>> analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to
>> today's Masters or above?

> It is simple: back those days there were double the # tournaments
> (peaking around 140+ 1977)

Tournament numbers (GP) (Challengers in parenthesis, US GP's in
brackets) according to the ATP DB:
1970: 27                [12]
1971: 57                [24]
1972: 72                [33]
1973: 89                [36]
1974: 90                [41]
1975: 92                [33]
1976: 97                [37]
1977: 95                [39]
1978: 88 (18)           [39]
1979: 90 (20)           [35]
1980: 94 (24)           [33]
2000: 64 (WS+CS+SU)
2011: 60 (250+500+1000)

The ITF DB lists 1977 at 98, which includes every single tournament.

So,
1) The 140+ figure is 50% off. Probably wrong.
2) All the figures have been relatively stable since 1973 (until bla
bla, but then again bla bla), which is rather surprising. The tennis
circuit ballooned pretty ***ing fast.
3) The GP numbers dropped to the 2000 level (60 something) already in
the first half of 1980s, too lazy to put everything in here. That's
completely at odds against what you conclude about J hnny Mac and his
increased opportunities. Later, the tournament nr increases comes from
challengers et al, but those don't affect him or the top.
4) Back to the drawing board.

--
http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by jlian.. » Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:49:50

Quote:



> > > Top 5 in Titles

> > > 1. Connors - 109

> > > 2. Lendl - 94

> > > 3. McEnroe - 77

> > > 4. Federer - 76

> > > 5. Sampras - 64

> > > Top 5 in Match Wins

> > > 1. Connors - 1222

> > > 2. Lendl - 1070

> > > 3. Vilas - 920

> > > 4. Agassi - 870

> > > 5. McEnroe - 867

> > > Federer is now at 862 wins.

> > > McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> > It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?

> what? Fed never gets easy-peasy or fixed draws?!! LOL also we all know

> the clowns don't even bother trying against Fed, whereas they go all

> out vs Djoker,Nadal or Murray. I would've bet my house on the SF vs

> Warwinka the other day.

Got to give credit where is due. Nobody in RST can consistently come up with this type of rubbish.  That Federer guys must be a great friend to all other players not named Nadal, Djoker or Murray and was able to get these guys trying their guts out to beat Nadal, Djoker and Murray.
 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Patrick Keho » Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:12:19


Quote:



> > > > Top 5 in Titles

> > > > 1. Connors - 109

> > > > 2. Lendl - 94

> > > > 3. McEnroe - 77

> > > > 4. Federer - 76

> > > > 5. Sampras - 64

> > > > Top 5 in Match Wins

> > > > 1. Connors - 1222

> > > > 2. Lendl - 1070

> > > > 3. Vilas - 920

> > > > 4. Agassi - 870

> > > > 5. McEnroe - 867

> > > > Federer is now at 862 wins.

> > > > McEnroe wants Federer to retire NOW!

> > > It's interesting. Plain numbers can be deceiving in a way. McEnroe (along with other early 1980s top players) must have won a lot of relatively less significant tournaments with easy-peasy draws in order to score so many career wins and tournaments. Given the fact that Mac's career was in a free fall after 1985. Even went AWOL. Still for him to have racked up numbers like that. This demands analysis. How many of Mac wins were in tournaments equivalent to today's Masters or above?

> > what? Fed never gets easy-peasy or fixed draws?!! LOL also we all know

> > the clowns don't even bother trying against Fed, whereas they go all

> > out vs Djoker,Nadal or Murray. I would've bet my house on the SF vs

> > Warwinka the other day.

> Got to give credit where is due. Nobody in RST can consistently come up with this type of rubbish. ?That Federer guys must be a great friend to all other players not named Nadal, Djoker or Murray and was able to get these guys trying their guts out to beat Nadal, Djoker and Murray.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

:))))))))))))

P

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by MBDun » Wed, 22 Aug 2012 06:35:32


Quote:
> Tournament numbers (GP) (Challengers in parenthesis, US GP's in
> brackets) according to the ATP DB:
> 1970: 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[12]
> 1971: 57 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[24]
> 1972: 72 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> 1973: 89 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[36]
> 1974: 90 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[41]
> 1975: 92 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> 1976: 97 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[37]
> 1977: 95 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[39]
> 1978: 88 (18) ? ? ? ? ? [39]
> 1979: 90 (20) ? ? ? ? ? [35]
> 1980: 94 (24) ? ? ? ? ? [33]
> 2000: 64 (WS+CS+SU)
> 2011: 60 (250+500+1000)

> The ITF DB lists 1977 at 98, which includes every single tournament.

> So,
> 1) The 140+ figure is 50% off. Probably wrong.

The reason why numbers are off is known. Retrospectively some of
70:ies tournaments were later degraded into "exhibition nature" (The
reason why Connors' official total tournament win count went down from
around 110 into 99 1983 - Connors had a luxury to get 100th tournament
win celebrations twice ;) ).

Some of the wiki articles list absurd # of tournament title wins for
Laver and especially later name like Lendl (140?). Back then they
played for money a lot more and  played regurarly exo tournaments
(with 4-8 draws) and did not focus on the "official" tour as like
today is mandatory....and what was official tour anyway back then. It
was more about prize money ather than rankings anyway during 70:ies.

It was a mess (with all those GP/WCT/WTT/Exos). But somehow
interesting and wild same time....

.mikko

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by MBDun » Wed, 22 Aug 2012 06:44:43


Quote:

> > Tournament numbers (GP) (Challengers in parenthesis, US GP's in
> > brackets) according to the ATP DB:
> > 1970: 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[12]
> > 1971: 57 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[24]
> > 1972: 72 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> > 1973: 89 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[36]
> > 1974: 90 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[41]
> > 1975: 92 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> > 1976: 97 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[37]
> > 1977: 95 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[39]
> > 1978: 88 (18) ? ? ? ? ? [39]
> > 1979: 90 (20) ? ? ? ? ? [35]
> > 1980: 94 (24) ? ? ? ? ? [33]
> > 2000: 64 (WS+CS+SU)
> > 2011: 60 (250+500+1000)

> > The ITF DB lists 1977 at 98, which includes every single tournament.

> > So,
> > 1) The 140+ figure is 50% off. Probably wrong.

> The reason why numbers are off is known. Retrospectively some of
> 70:ies tournaments were later degraded into "exhibition nature" (The
> reason why Connors' official total tournament win count went down from
> around 110 into 99 1983 - Connors had a luxury to get 100th tournament
> win celebrations twice ;) ).

> Some of the wiki articles list absurd # of tournament title wins for
> Laver and especially later name like Lendl (140?). Back then they
> played for money a lot more and ?played regurarly exo tournaments
> (with 4-8 draws) and did not focus on the "official" tour as like
> today is mandatory....and what was official tour anyway back then. It
> was more about prize money ather than rankings anyway during 70:ies.

> It was a mess (with all those GP/WCT/WTT/Exos). But somehow
> interesting and wild same time....

> .mikko

Another example is Laver's 1969. Practically all sources list him to
have 16 or 17 tournament titles from that year...but atp lists only
official seven.

.mikko

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by Pelle Svansl? » Thu, 23 Aug 2012 02:10:58


Quote:

>> Tournament numbers (GP) (Challengers in parenthesis, US GP's in
>> brackets) according to the ATP DB:
>> 1970: 27                [12]
>> 1971: 57                [24]
>> 1972: 72                [33]
>> 1973: 89                [36]
>> 1974: 90                [41]
>> 1975: 92                [33]
>> 1976: 97                [37]
>> 1977: 95                [39]
>> 1978: 88 (18)           [39]
>> 1979: 90 (20)           [35]
>> 1980: 94 (24)           [33]
>> 2000: 64 (WS+CS+SU)
>> 2011: 60 (250+500+1000)

>> The ITF DB lists 1977 at 98, which includes every single tournament.

>> So,
>> 1) The 140+ figure is 50% off. Probably wrong.

> The reason why numbers are off is known.

Well, yes. But if I read this correctly, they were supposed to inflate
J hnny Mac's win count. The don't.

Of J hnny Mac's 78 wins (the ATP figure), only 3 could be considered exo
wins with a (known or recorded, these aren't always correct) 3 man draw.
12 of his wins are from <=16 draws, but apart from the 3, the rest are
packed with the top players of the time. YEC of the time quality.

All the rest, 66, are from normal draws of at least 32 players. And most
of these are acquired at a time when GP count was going significantly
down, from 94 in 1980 to 64 in 1985 to 66 in 1991, the last year he won
anything. He in fact looks to have it stacked against him as opposed to
something diluted.

--
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/FEDERER_Roger-24x3...

 
 
 

Men - Most career titles and match wins of Open Era

Post by MBDun » Thu, 23 Aug 2012 02:42:35


Quote:


> >> Tournament numbers (GP) (Challengers in parenthesis, US GP's in
> >> brackets) according to the ATP DB:
> >> 1970: 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[12]
> >> 1971: 57 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[24]
> >> 1972: 72 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> >> 1973: 89 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[36]
> >> 1974: 90 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[41]
> >> 1975: 92 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[33]
> >> 1976: 97 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[37]
> >> 1977: 95 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[39]
> >> 1978: 88 (18) ? ? ? ? ? [39]
> >> 1979: 90 (20) ? ? ? ? ? [35]
> >> 1980: 94 (24) ? ? ? ? ? [33]
> >> 2000: 64 (WS+CS+SU)
> >> 2011: 60 (250+500+1000)

> >> The ITF DB lists 1977 at 98, which includes every single tournament.

> >> So,
> >> 1) The 140+ figure is 50% off. Probably wrong.

> > The reason why numbers are off is known.

> Well, yes. But if I read this correctly, they were supposed to inflate
> J hnny Mac's win count. The don't.

No. it was all about "players being scattered to multiple tours, exos,
big-money venues" rather than selected sub-set of mandatory/regulatory
tournaments where most of the top players are present.

Quote:
> Of J hnny Mac's 78 wins (the ATP figure), only 3 could be considered exo
> wins with a (known or recorded, these aren't always correct) 3 man draw.
> 12 of his wins are from <=16 draws, but apart from the 3, the rest are
> packed with the top players of the time. YEC of the time quality.

> All the rest, 66, are from normal draws of at least 32 players. And most
> of these are acquired at a time when GP count was going significantly
> down, from 94 in 1980 to 64 in 1985 to 66 in 1991, the last year he won
> anything. He in fact looks to have it stacked against him as opposed to
> something diluted.

> --http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/FEDERER_Roger-24x3...

Yep. Mac is great. At times it feels he is somewhat underrated
nowadays.

.mikko