Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by wen.. » Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:36:02


Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a fluke...

wg

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by paperw » Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:40:23

Quote:

> Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

> Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

> Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a fluke...

you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by Ted of Ted's Tenni » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:37:10



Quote:
> you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
> after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
> no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

Considering Venus is playing two singles matches, and from what I saw,
doubles with Morariu, to say the team has virtually no chance of winning
regardless of what Venus did is illogical.

--
Ted Schuerzinger
http://tedstennis.tripod.com/index.html
An infallible method of conciliating a tiger is to allow oneself to be
devoured. -- Konrad Adenauer

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by Pedro Dia » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:17:15


Quote:

> > Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

> > Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

> > Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a
fluke...

> you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
> after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
> no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

By my reading, she's in three of the five matches. I don't think it reflects
horribly on her if they lose, as it now seems inevitable that they will, but
surely she has some influence on the outcome?
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by paperw » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:11:12


Quote:


> > you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
> > after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
> > no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

> Considering Venus is playing two singles matches, and from what I saw,
> doubles with Morariu, to say the team has virtually no chance of winning
> regardless of what Venus did is illogical.

consider the possible doubles teams that russia has available.  then
try to logically consider the chances any u.s. doubles team winning.
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by wen.. » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:44:24


Quote:


> > Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

> > Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

> > Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a
> > fluke...

> you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
> after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
> no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

I get a little tired of people here dismissing losses by top players with
"tune-up" or "wonder how significant" because it implies that if they
cared to bother to lower themselves they *could* have won it perfectly
easily. Why play, in that case?

The fact is that top players in general hate to lose, and although there
are circumstances where you do see tank jobs, they're very rare among the
women and in any case they aren't going to happen between top players --
because that might help them against you psychologically the next time you
meet "for real". Telling yourself "I could have won that" is the last
refuge of the uncompetitive.

That said, I could well believe VW was tired and found it difficult to
shift quickly from grass (her best surface) to clay (her worst). Also,
that Myskina is at her most motivated playing for her country.

wg

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by paperw » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:49:34

Quote:



> > you've got to wonder how significant this match is.  it comes right
> > after a big win at wimbledon, while playing on a team that had virtually
> > no chance of winning regardless of what she did.

> I get a little tired of people here dismissing losses by top players with
> "tune-up" or "wonder how significant" because it implies that if they
> cared to bother to lower themselves they *could* have won it perfectly
> easily. Why play, in that case?

i think that most people can tell the difference between the importance
of winning the wimbledon title and winning a fed cup match.

if this match were as important as you suggest it is, why is it that
nobody has mentioned anything about the fed cup until today, and when
they did mention it, it was only the venu-myskina match?

if fed/davis cup were as important as you suggest it is, why is it that
the coaches have such a difficult time getting top players to play?

Quote:
> The fact is that top players in general hate to lose, and although there
> are circumstances where you do see tank jobs, they're very rare among the
> women and in any case they aren't going to happen between top players --
> because that might help them against you psychologically the next time you
> meet "for real". Telling yourself "I could have won that" is the last
> refuge of the uncompetitive.

certainly it is true that players hate to lose any match.  but somehow
i suspect that venus can tell the difference between losing a grand slam
final and losing a fed cup match.  don't you?
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by Stephen » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:07:49

Quote:
> i think that most people can tell the difference between the importance
> of winning the wimbledon title and winning a fed cup match.

wendy is in one sense correct - all top players are naturally competitive
and don't like to lose any match, so there is always a "base" level of
reasonably high desire to win when someone like Venus plays, regardless of
the event.

but the as you note, some events/matches are obviously more important than
others, and at these the top players will indeed be even more motivated and
put forth extra effort above the "base" level.

And while that extra effort might be "marginal" in the big picture, adding
up to maybe a 10% overall effort-boost, it surely is significant enough to
make a big difference against another top player, like myskina.

So you were right.

--
"what if Saddam fails to comply, and we fail to act?
He will conclude that he can do more to build an
arsenal of devastating destruction. And someday,
some way, i guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."

- President Bill Clinton, explaining why
  Hussein must be forced to admit
  UN weapons inspectors, 1998

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by wen.. » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:38:30


Quote:

> Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

> Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

> Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a
> fluke...

> wg

Myskina followed up today by beating Craybas; VW saved a point by beating
Dementieva rather thoroughly. Nonetheless, Russia goes through 3-1 (or,
possibly, after the doubles, 3-2).

wg

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by only hum » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:25:13

Boy did Dementieva play a horrible match against Venus today. just about
every shot she hit went over the line. never seen her play that badly
before. but strangely her 1st serve % was in the 60's. thats high for
her. but it didn't help at all.
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by only hum » Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:36:40

I personally don't like tennis events like Davis cup and Fed cup. our
country is divided enough with other countries. we don't need any more
im better then you are type of group events. the only reason for such
events is to say we are. or they are better then us at something. is
this really a good thing? its fine to be proud of the country you live
in. but bragging about beating another country in any sport is just
stupid. and it breeds arrogance between our different countries. and the
people. very unwise. the person. or persons that started this ***
should be shot.
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by Whispe » Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:06:28

Quote:

> I personally don't like tennis events like Davis cup and Fed cup. our
> country is divided enough with other countries. we don't need any more
> im better then you are type of group events. the only reason for such
> events is to say we are. or they are better then us at something. is
> this really a good thing? its fine to be proud of the country you live
> in. but bragging about beating another country in any sport is just
> stupid. and it breeds arrogance between our different countries. and the
> people. very unwise. the person. or persons that started this ***
> should be shot.

It's a good thing if we all take it in the right spirit - win, lose or draw.
 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by Vari L. Cinick » Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:20:21

Quote:

> I personally don't like tennis events like Davis cup and Fed cup. our
> country is divided enough with other countries. we don't need any more
> im better then you are type of group events. the only reason for such
> events is to say we are. or they are better then us at something. is
> this really a good thing? its fine to be proud of the country you live
> in. but bragging about beating another country in any sport is just
> stupid. and it breeds arrogance between our different countries. and the
> people. very unwise. the person. or persons that started this ***
> should be shot.

Strange way ("persons that started this ***should be shot") to preach
tolerance and mutual understanding.

I am guessing you thought of the best excuse for that a long time ago.

vc

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by bob » Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:41:12


Quote:
> Dementieva d. Mashona Washington 7-5,6-4

> Myskina d. Venus Williams 5-7,6-4,6-2

> Maybe Myskina's beating VW at the FO in 2004 wasn't quite such a fluke...

who ever said it was a fluke?

bob

 
 
 

Russia vs. US Fed Cup (spoiler)

Post by bob » Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:43:13


Quote:
>I personally don't like tennis events like Davis cup and Fed cup. our
> country is divided enough with other countries.

ah hell, scratch the olympics as well? ;-)

Quote:
> we don't need any more
> im better then you are type of group events. the only reason for such
> events is to say we are. or they are better then us at something. is
> this really a good thing? its fine to be proud of the country you live
> in. but bragging about beating another country in any sport is just
> stupid. and it breeds arrogance between our different countries. and the
> people. very unwise. the person. or persons that started this ***
> should be shot.

saddam started it.

bob