"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Milhouse Van Houte » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:35:46


During the Safin/Federer match, Patrick McEnroe, commenting about Safin's
"heavy" serve, was asked about it compared to Roddick's serve, which he
declared as "faster" but not as "heavy."

Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Peter » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:54:00



Quote:
> During the Safin/Federer match, Patrick McEnroe, commenting about Safin's
> "heavy" serve, was asked about it compared to Roddick's serve, which he
> declared as "faster" but not as "heavy."

> Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
> me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
> than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

I think it has to do with spin.
Quote:
> Perhaps I'm missing something.


 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Marius Hanc » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:01:39

"Heavy" is usually related to the presence of all kind of spins.

Marius Hancu

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by David Whit » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:07:42



Quote:
> During the Safin/Federer match, Patrick McEnroe, commenting about Safin's
> "heavy" serve, was asked about it compared to Roddick's serve, which he
> declared as "faster" but not as "heavy."

> Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
> me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
> than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

> Perhaps I'm missing something.

The energy imparted to the ball can be a combination of forward motion and
spin. Therefore, it's possible that a flat, fast serve required less energy
from the server than a slower, heavily spun ball. Whether this was what
McEnroe meant, or whether Safin's serves really are "heavier" in this
respect, I have no idea.

David

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by LNC » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:14:25



Quote:
> During the Safin/Federer match, Patrick McEnroe, commenting about Safin's
> "heavy" serve, was asked about it compared to Roddick's serve, which he
> declared as "faster" but not as "heavy."

> Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
> me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
> than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

> Perhaps I'm missing something.

It goes to how the ball feels on the receiver's racquet. Pat McEnroe's
probably speculating that the ball would feel that way (heavy) but, in fact,
doesn't know.

LNC

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by wkh.. » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:17:12

Flat serves are heavier, they carry more energy than top spin serves
even they could be travelling on the same INITIAL speed.
 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Stephen » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:32:28

Quote:
> Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
> me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
> than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

> Perhaps I'm missing something.

A "heavy" serve is a serve with a lot of spin on it, particularly topspin.

It makes a big difference to the returner, because all things equal (i.e.,
speed), a heavy serve is "harder to handle", it seemingly explodes with
greater force into the racket.

That's why Sampras's 125 mph serve was so much harder to handle than most
other 125 mph serves. Most guys have to "flatten" the ball to get that much
speed, but Sampras reached that velocity with loads of spin.

Becker hit a very heavy serve as well.

--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
 we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
 think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
 that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Stephen » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:33:38

Quote:
> Flat serves are heavier, they carry more energy than top spin serves
> even they could be travelling on the same INITIAL speed.

Exactly wrong. If the serves are travelling at the same speed, a topspin
serve will feel a lot heavier than a flat serve.

"Heavy" means both fast and high-spin.

--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
 we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
 think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
 that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by wkh.. » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:48:16

believe me I understand what you mean, but there is a difference
between heavier and more difficult.
A heavier serve will shake you racquet as it feels too heavy to handle.
 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Stephen » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:36:26

Quote:
> believe me I understand what you mean, but there is a difference
> between heavier and more difficult.
> A heavier serve will shake you racquet as it feels too heavy to handle.

... and "too heavy to handle" means "more difficult" for most players...

--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
 we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
 think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
 that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Whispe » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:42:07

Quote:

> During the Safin/Federer match, Patrick McEnroe, commenting about Safin's
> "heavy" serve, was asked about it compared to Roddick's serve, which he
> declared as "faster" but not as "heavy."

> Now, admittedly, I didn't do well in physics, so someone has to explain to
> me how a serve that goes faster -- therefore hit harder -- is less "heavy"
> than a serve that is slower, which by implication is hit more softly.

> Perhaps I'm missing something.

Spin.
 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Cortad » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:46:13


Quote:
> > Flat serves are heavier, they carry more energy than top spin serves
> > even they could be travelling on the same INITIAL speed.

> Exactly wrong. If the serves are travelling at the same speed, a topspin
> serve will feel a lot heavier than a flat serve.

> "Heavy" means both fast and high-spin.

So what you are saying is that he wasted his energy capitalizing "INITIAL"?
 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Milhouse Van Houte » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:53:34


Quote:
>> believe me I understand what you mean, but there is a difference
>> between heavier and more difficult.
>> A heavier serve will shake you racquet as it feels too heavy to handle.

> ... and "too heavy to handle" means "more difficult" for most players...

Do you know if Roddick is capable of still hitting the fastest serves with
spin?  If not, I assume he can take something off and still use spin for
perhaps an overall more effective serve?
 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by bob » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:08:46


Quote:
> Flat serves are heavier, they carry more energy than top spin serves
> even they could be travelling on the same INITIAL speed.

i think you have it backwards..i know what hitting a heavy ball means, and
what i feels like to the returner -- it IS different from speed..and IMO a
flat ball is usually not "heavy".

bob

 
 
 

"Heavy" serve vs "Fast" serve

Post by Whispe » Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:09:21

Quote:



>>>believe me I understand what you mean, but there is a difference
>>>between heavier and more difficult.
>>>A heavier serve will shake you racquet as it feels too heavy to handle.

>>... and "too heavy to handle" means "more difficult" for most players...

> Do you know if Roddick is capable of still hitting the fastest serves with
> spin?  If not, I assume he can take something off and still use spin for
> perhaps an overall more effective serve?

I don't think he is.  Sampras was double-jointed & got his elbow down to
his back to generate all that 'work' on the ball - much like Fed with
his *** groundies.

That's something you're born with....