Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:56:29


Quote:

> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
> question....

No.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by bob » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:13:01



Quote:

>> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
>> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
>> question....

>No.

then you have every right to believe seles would win 9 of next 12
slams or such. surprised you don't defend your position more strongly.

i believe she would have, and probably stole 3 of graf's slams - but
no more.

bob

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by sfds2 » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:16:02

Federer has only played Murray in 2 slams.  If Seles would've had
little chance on hardcourt -- fast or otherwise -- after 1992, the
Federer had little chance against Murray at the 2008 USO and this
year's AO.  Seles was only 19 years old when she was stabbed.  We
never got to see peak Seles.

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Todd » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:25:28


Quote:


> >> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> >> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> >> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> >> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> >> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

> >It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
> >to know that by now.

> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
> question....

> bob

Considering she was a stick thin kid and is skinny now in her 30s,
probably not.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Todd » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:28:21


Quote:


> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > Max

> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be the
> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

The fun thing is that most of her wins were in slams, including Nav
and Sanchez in USO finals, and Capriati in the famous 91 semi.  Of
anyone's hardcourt record from 91-93 (including Graf's), who's would
you want?  Any reasonable person would pick Seles' fast hardcourt
record during that time.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:33:19


Quote:



> >> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
> >> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
> >> question....

> >No.

> then you have every right to believe seles would win 9 of next 12
> slams or such. surprised you don't defend your position more strongly.

> i believe she would have, and probably stole 3 of graf's slams - but
> no more.

I've often said i thought graf got 5-6 extra slams as a result of the
stabbing  - the 93 FO, 94 AO, 95 FO and USO, 96 FO, maybe 96 USO ...
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Todd » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:36:12


Quote:





> >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> >> > Max

> >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> >> the
> >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > HC in the open era.
> > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> might do the trick.

> Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> not put her as one of the best of all time.

> However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

Evert only has 3 hardcourt slams, and I'm guessing Court and BJK have
none. Evert also had 10 clay court slams and 5 grass court slams.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by stephen » Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:27:35

Quote:




>>>> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
>>>> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
>>>> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
>>>> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
>>>> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
>>> It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
>>> to know that by now.
>> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
>> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
>> question....

>> bob

> Considering she was a stick thin kid and is skinny now in her 30s,
> probably not.

i saw seles at the hall of fame induction either last year or year
before last and didn't even recognize her for the first 5 minutes she
was walking around. stick-thin indeed.

--
The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
enacting stupid laws.

- Thurgood Marshall

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by dixo » Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:54:42


Quote:




> >>>> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> >>>> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> >>>> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> >>>> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> >>>> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
> >>> It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
> >>> to know that by now.
> >> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
> >> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
> >> question....

> >> bob

> > Considering she was a stick thin kid and is skinny now in her 30s,
> > probably not.

> i saw seles at the hall of fame induction either last year or year
> before last and didn't even recognize her for the first 5 minutes she
> was walking around. stick-thin indeed.

> --
> The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
> enacting stupid laws.

> - Thurgood Marshall

You say that Seles was looking stick thin! she must have an illness
then, lets hope it's nothing trivial.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by dixo » Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:58:38


Quote:





> > >>>> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> > >>>> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> > >>>> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> > >>>> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> > >>>> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
> > >>> It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
> > >>> to know that by now.
> > >> if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
> > >> somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
> > >> question....

> > >> bob

> > > Considering she was a stick thin kid and is skinny now in her 30s,
> > > probably not.

> > i saw seles at the hall of fame induction either last year or year
> > before last and didn't even recognize her for the first 5 minutes she
> > was walking around. stick-thin indeed.

> > --
> > The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from
> > enacting stupid laws.

> > - Thurgood Marshall

> You say that Seles was looking stick thin! she must have an illness
> then, lets hope it's nothing trivial.

Seles's whole ***in career has been overrated. There's *** all to
discuss about it. We would be better served by discussing what a
***in crybaby she is.
***in moaning faced bastard.