Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
H2H against Navratilova 1-2
H2H against? Capriati 1-2
H2H against Graf 0-1
H2H against Sanchez 2-1
H2H against Sabatini 1-0
Max
by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 05:50:37
11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
H2H against Navratilova 1-2
H2H against? Capriati 1-2
H2H against Graf 0-1
H2H against Sanchez 2-1
H2H against Sabatini 1-0
Max
by adam thirni » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:04:22
by William Sanderso » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:07:49
> 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> H2H against Graf 0-1
> H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> Max
If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:02:08
Max
by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:03:31
> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> > Max
> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be the
> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
Max
by William Sanderso » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:13:38
>> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
>> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
>> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
>> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
>> > H2H against Graf 0-1
>> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
>> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
>> > Max
>> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
>> the
>> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
>> unreasonable to call her overrated.
>> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
>> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
>> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> HC in the open era.
> Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
stature with quite a few others. So depending on what "one of the best"
means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
not put her as one of the best of all time.
However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:14:55
> >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> >> > Max
> >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> >> the
> >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> >> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > HC in the open era.
> > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
> Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> might do the trick.
> Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> not put her as one of the best of all time.
> However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
by Manc » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:21:07
by Steffi Ivan Graf Lend » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:21:27
> > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> > >> > Max
> > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > >> the
> > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > HC in the open era.
> > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
> > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > might do the trick.
> > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > not put her as one of the best of all time.
> > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
> Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:28:46
> > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> > > >> > Max
> > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > >> the
> > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
> > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > might do the trick.
> > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > not put her as one of the best of all time.
> > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
> > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.
One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
by stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:31:31
>> Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
>> 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
>> H2H against Navratilova 1-2
>> H2H against? Capriati 1-2
>> H2H against Graf 0-1
>> H2H against Sanchez 2-1
>> H2H against Sabatini 1-0
>> Max
> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> the fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it
> is unreasonable to call her overrated.
> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would
> be reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.
- Albert Einstein
by stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:32:55
--
In our age it is not sex that raises its ugly head,
but love.
- J. Fowles
by Steffi Ivan Graf Lend » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:42:06
> > > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> > > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> > > > >> > Max
> > > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> > > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> > > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
> > > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > > might do the trick.
> > > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > > not put her as one of the best of all time.
> > > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
> > > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> > losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.
> The numbers are not crazy, but Max's conclusion is. Seles won the
> biggest HC slam twice during the same period. Winning a slam is the
> most important indicator of a player's success on a particular
> surface. Seles is definitely not "overrated", she earned her status by
> winning 2 slams. In fact, the only "overrating" going on here is Max
> presenting these h2h's as if they are relevant. These are interesting
> stats, but doesn't bear at all as far as "overrating" is concerned.
> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
by bob » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:52:56
>> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
>> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
>> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
>> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
>> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
>It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
>to know that by now.
bob
by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:55:12
> > > > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:
> > > > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0
> > > > > >> > Max
> > > > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.
> > > > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.
> > > > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.
> > > > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > > > might do the trick.
> > > > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > > > not put her as one of the best of all time.
> > > > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.
> > > > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > > > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> > > losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.
> > The numbers are not crazy, but Max's conclusion is. Seles won the
> > biggest HC slam twice during the same period. Winning a slam is the
> > most important indicator of a player's success on a particular
> > surface. Seles is definitely not "overrated", she earned her status by
> > winning 2 slams. In fact, the only "overrating" going on here is Max
> > presenting these h2h's as if they are relevant. These are interesting
> > stats, but doesn't bear at all as far as "overrating" is concerned.
> > One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> > tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> > herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> > slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> > still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.
> But Federer has been beating Andy in slams continuously.
>Seles had the
> pleasure of not facing Graf enough in slams. And it is a well known
> fact that Graf-Seles hardly met each other from 1990-1992. Graf was in
> a clear slump because of the blackmail scandal during that time. As
> soon as it cleared up, she started getting better. Too bad that German
> turd had to ruin the rivalry. 1993 would have been great and I am sure
> Graf would have beat Seles in the FO, USO and Wimbledon that year.
I cannot believe I have replied to you again. You are annoyingly
stupid and a big time-waster.
1. Analysis: Peak 91-93 Seles on fast HC
2. Dominating fast hard courts and clay - the two major surfaces
3. Seles in 1991: Worst #1 in 10 years!
4. Did Seles really dominate Graf in 1991 and 1992?
6. Seles vs Capriati circa 1991
7. Why peak Pete would have had a hard time playing peak Federer
8. Seles at US Open 1991-1996: Questions
9. Seles was NOT the experts' favourite at FO 93 anyway (poking or not)
10. Graf was set to overtake Seles in 93/94 anyway
11. Seles/Graf: Graf's asterisks and hollow wins due to "93 Hamburg (What If)
12. Graf fan MYTH: Seles/Graf race "incredibly close" in 93???...LOL!!!
13. Would Seles have won USO 93 without The Stabbing?
14. Odds for Seles Winning FO 93 *and* AO 94 Without Poking: Only 5.3 %!