Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 05:50:37


Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
H2H against Navratilova 1-2
H2H against? Capriati 1-2
H2H against Graf 0-1
H2H against Sanchez 2-1
H2H against Sabatini 1-0

Max

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by adam thirni » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:04:22

interesting stats but trumped by 9 out of 12 slams until the stabbing

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by William Sanderso » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:07:49


Quote:
> Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> H2H against Graf 0-1
> H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> Max

Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be the
fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
unreasonable to call her overrated.

If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:02:08


Quote:
> interesting stats but trumped by 9 out of 12 slams until the stabbing

But says a lot about Seles's chances to win USO post-92.

Max

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Calimer » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:03:31


Quote:


> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > Max

> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be the
> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
HC in the open era.
Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

Max

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by William Sanderso » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:13:38


Quote:



>> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

>> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
>> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
>> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
>> > H2H against Graf 0-1
>> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
>> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

>> > Max

>> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
>> the
>> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
>> unreasonable to call her overrated.

>> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
>> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
>> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> HC in the open era.
> Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
might do the trick.

Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
stature with quite a few others.  So depending on what "one of the best"
means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
not put her as one of the best of all time.

However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:14:55


Quote:





> >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> >> > Max

> >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> >> the
> >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > HC in the open era.
> > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> might do the trick.

> Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> not put her as one of the best of all time.

> However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
fan. Stay away from him.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Manc » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:21:07

No doubt he approved of the KNIFE! put into Monica's back by Gunther.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Steffi Ivan Graf Lend » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:21:27


Quote:






> > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > >> > Max

> > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > >> the
> > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > HC in the open era.
> > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > might do the trick.

> > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > not put her as one of the best of all time.

> > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

> Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:28:46


Quote:







> > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > > >> > Max

> > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > >> the
> > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > might do the trick.

> > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > not put her as one of the best of all time.

> > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

> > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.

The numbers are not crazy, but Max's conclusion is. Seles won the
biggest HC slam twice during the same period. Winning a slam is the
most important indicator of a player's success on a particular
surface. Seles is definitely not "overrated", she earned her status by
winning 2 slams. In fact, the only "overrating" going on here is Max
presenting these h2h's as if they are relevant. These are interesting
stats, but doesn't bear at all as far as "overrating" is concerned.

One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:31:31

Quote:



>> Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

>> 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
>> H2H against Navratilova 1-2
>> H2H against? Capriati 1-2
>> H2H against Graf 0-1
>> H2H against Sanchez 2-1
>> H2H against Sabatini 1-0

>> Max

> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> the fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it
> is unreasonable to call her overrated.

> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would
> be reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

don't waste logic on max, it just bounces off his skull.

--
It is easier to win over people to pacifism than socialism.
We should work first for pacifism, and only later for socialism.

- Albert Einstein

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by stephen » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:32:55

Quote:

> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
to know that by now.

--
In our age it is not sex that raises its ugly head,
but love.

- J. Fowles

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by Steffi Ivan Graf Lend » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:42:06


Quote:








> > > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > > > >> > Max

> > > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> > > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> > > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > > might do the trick.

> > > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > > not put her as one of the best of all time.

> > > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

> > > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -

> > He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> > losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.

> The numbers are not crazy, but Max's conclusion is. Seles won the
> biggest HC slam twice during the same period. Winning a slam is the
> most important indicator of a player's success on a particular
> surface. Seles is definitely not "overrated", she earned her status by
> winning 2 slams. In fact, the only "overrating" going on here is Max
> presenting these h2h's as if they are relevant. These are interesting
> stats, but doesn't bear at all as far as "overrating" is concerned.

> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

But Federer has been beating Andy in slams continuously. Seles had the
pleasure of not facing Graf enough in slams. And it is a well known
fact that Graf-Seles hardly met each other from 1990-1992. Graf was in
a clear slump because of the blackmail scandal during that time. As
soon as it cleared up, she started getting better. Too bad that German
turd had to ruin the rivalry. 1993 would have been great and I am sure
Graf would have beat Seles in the FO, USO and Wimbledon that year.
 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by bob » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:52:56

Quote:


>> One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
>> tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
>> herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
>> slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
>> still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

>It's foolish to use common sense and logic with max and raja. you ought
>to know that by now.

if seles was not stabbed do you believe she was destined soon to be
somewhat 'out of shape' for #1 tennis star standards? simple yes/no
question....

bob

 
 
 

Peak Seles on fast hard-courts in 1991-93: overrated!

Post by arnab. » Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:55:12


Quote:









> > > > > >> > Peak Seles on FAST hard-courts in 1991-93:

> > > > > >> > 11 tournaments played, 5 titles won
> > > > > >> > H2H against Navratilova 1-2
> > > > > >> > H2H against? Capriati 1-2
> > > > > >> > H2H against Graf 0-1
> > > > > >> > H2H against Sanchez 2-1
> > > > > >> > H2H against Sabatini 1-0

> > > > > >> > Max

> > > > > >> Given that she won 2 out of the 3 USO from 1991 to 1993, which would be
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> fastest HC slam on tour, and was sidelined for the one in 1993, it is
> > > > > >> unreasonable to call her overrated.

> > > > > >> If, on other hand, she had a perfect or close to perfect H2H against all
> > > > > >> those players, and then failed to win a single USO slam, then it would be
> > > > > >> reasonable to conclude that she was overrated.

> > > > > > Some people think that peak Seles was one of the best players on fast
> > > > > > HC in the open era.
> > > > > > Those numbers proof they are deluded - or simply rabid Selesians.

> > > > > Those numbers do not, however a casual survey of the women's USO champs
> > > > > might do the trick.

> > > > > Given that Evert, Margaret Court, Martina, Graf, BJK, and Serena each have
> > > > > three or more, Seles would not be amongst the top five, and would share her
> > > > > stature with quite a few others. ?So depending on what "one of the best"
> > > > > means, she could qualify. She is certainly not among the top 5, so I would
> > > > > not put her as one of the best of all time.

> > > > > However, for the period you originally cited, she was surely the best.

> > > > Advice: Don't get into a long argument with Max. He is a crazy Graf
> > > > fan. Stay away from him.- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -

> > > He is giving you the facts. There is nothing crazy about it. She had a
> > > losing H2H to good opponents during that part of her career.

> > The numbers are not crazy, but Max's conclusion is. Seles won the
> > biggest HC slam twice during the same period. Winning a slam is the
> > most important indicator of a player's success on a particular
> > surface. Seles is definitely not "overrated", she earned her status by
> > winning 2 slams. In fact, the only "overrating" going on here is Max
> > presenting these h2h's as if they are relevant. These are interesting
> > stats, but doesn't bear at all as far as "overrating" is concerned.

> > One can have a losing h2h record against players in rinky-dink
> > tournaments, but if she wins slams on the same surface, she redeems
> > herself. It's like saying Federer is "overrated" because he won two
> > slams against Andy crushing him in straight sets both times, but he
> > still has a 5-6 h2h against Andy. That makes no sense.

> But Federer has been beating Andy in slams continuously.
>Seles had the
> pleasure of not facing Graf enough in slams. And it is a well known
> fact that Graf-Seles hardly met each other from 1990-1992. Graf was in
> a clear slump because of the blackmail scandal during that time. As
> soon as it cleared up, she started getting better. Too bad that German
> turd had to ruin the rivalry. 1993 would have been great and I am sure
> Graf would have beat Seles in the FO, USO and Wimbledon that year.

Dude, you are too stupid to be bothered with. We are not interested in
these things. How the particular scenario between Graf and Seles or
between Federer and Murray evolved is not relevant to what I said at
all. The question is whether one can apply the term "overrated" to a
multi-slam winner on a certain surface just because she had some
negative h2hs. One simply can't. Whatever the h2h, Seles had the best
record of them all in fast HC Slams during that period. That makes all
those h2hs close to irrelevant.

I cannot believe I have replied to you again. You are annoyingly
stupid and a big time-waster.