Graf gets special ranking

Graf gets special ranking

Post by da » Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:00:00


This comes from the WTA's e-mail, for those of you who don't get it:

GRAF RECEIVES SPECIAL RANKING          

Under the Tour's special ranking rule, the Tour reserves the  
right to seed a player who is exempt while under the Special
Ranking Rule. After consulting with players, staff and
management, The Tour has decided to award Steffi Graf a
co-ranking of seven for seeding purposes at events she will play
between now and the U.S. Open.  Those events will be the Bank of
the West Classic in Stanford, California USA, the Toshiba Tennis
Classic in San Diego,  and the duMaurier Classic in Montreal.
The decision os based on Steffi's career results and her 1998
performnace thus far.  Graf's special seeding will then be
re-evaluated following the U.S. Open.

dar
--
Will play tennis for food.

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Robert B. Wal » Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> [ ... ] After consulting with players, staff and
> management, The Tour has decided to award Steffi Graf a
> co-ranking of seven for seeding purposes at events she will play
> between now and the U.S. Open.

Seven? How in the world did they come up with that number? By looking
at the fact that she just beat Coetzer (#8)?

I agree that Graf should get consideration -- but I'd also like to
know what the calculation was based on. Anyone know any more?

--
Robert B. Waltz
(e-mail address hidden to avoid spam)

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Kevin Holme » Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> This comes from the WTA's e-mail, for those of you who don't get it:

How do you sign up for the WTA's e-mail?

Kevin
--
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Graf gets special ranking

Post by Shun Cheun » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> > [ ... ] After consulting with players, staff and
> > management, The Tour has decided to award Steffi Graf a
> > co-ranking of seven for seeding purposes at events she will play
> > between now and the U.S. Open.

Unfortunately, Dar's title provides the same confusion we have been
having for several months. In reality, Graf receive no special ranking,
but she gets a special seeding in tournaments as if she were the #7 player.
That is essentially the same preferencial treatment she has been having
earlier this year, but now it is #7 instead of #3.

Quote:
> Seven? How in the world did they come up with that number? By looking
> at the fact that she just beat Coetzer (#8)?

> I agree that Graf should get consideration -- but I'd also like to
> know what the calculation was based on. Anyone know any more?

I doubt that there is an calculation. Most likely it is an educated
guess. Graf will probably be the #4, 5 seed at Stanford and San Diego.
Whether she deserves a special seeding is another issue.

-- Shun Cheung  New Jersey,USA  shun(AT)worldnet.att.net

1998 GS--AO:Jan19-Feb 1  FO:May25-Jun 7  W:Jun22-Jul 5  USO:Aug31-Sep13

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Lai Leo » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00



: Unfortunately, Dar's title provides the same confusion we have been
: having for several months. In reality, Graf receive no special ranking,
: but she gets a special seeding in tournaments as if she were the #7 player.
: That is essentially the same preferencial treatment she has been having
: earlier this year, but now it is #7 instead of #3.

        Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.

: -- Shun Cheung  New Jersey,USA  shun(AT)worldnet.att.net

: 1998 GS--AO:Jan19-Feb 1  FO:May25-Jun 7  W:Jun22-Jul 5  USO:Aug31-Sep13

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Shun Cheun » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:




> : Unfortunately, Dar's title provides the same confusion we have been
> : having for several months. In reality, Graf receive no special ranking,
> : but she gets a special seeding in tournaments as if she were the #7 player.
> : That is essentially the same preferencial treatment she has been having
> : earlier this year, but now it is #7 instead of #3.

>         Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
> seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
> points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
> a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
> Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.

How about money? The players receive a lot of ranking bonus from their
sponsors. Depending on the specific contract, the #1 player can get a million
dollars or two in terms of ranking bonus per year. Of course, there is also
a lot of personal pride and/or satification involved for being a high rank
player.

-- Shun Cheung

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Stephen Barnar » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:




> : Unfortunately, Dar's title provides the same confusion we have been
> : having for several months. In reality, Graf receive no special ranking,
> : but she gets a special seeding in tournaments as if she were the #7 player.
> : That is essentially the same preferencial treatment she has been having
> : earlier this year, but now it is #7 instead of #3.

>         Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
> seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
> points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
> a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
> Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.

It's kind of like saying that Shakepeare's plays weren't written by
William Shakespeare. They were merely written by a man who called
himself William Shakespeare.

In other words, a distinction without a difference.

        Steve Barnard

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by da » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



> > > [ ... ] After consulting with players, staff and
> > > management, The Tour has decided to award Steffi Graf a
> > > co-ranking of seven for seeding purposes at events she will play
> > > between now and the U.S. Open.
> Unfortunately, Dar's title provides the same confusion we have been
> having for several months. In reality, Graf receive no special ranking,
> but she gets a special seeding in tournaments as if she were the #7 player.
> That is essentially the same preferencial treatment she has been having
> earlier this year, but now it is #7 instead of #3.

Hey, I quoted the WTA's press release. Split hairs with them.

The article was entitled "Graf Receives Special Ranking," and went on to
point out that the co-ranking will be used for seeding purposes ...

I figure as long as I'm quoting without permission, the least I could do
is use their wording, right?

dar
--
Will play tennis for food.

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by da » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> >         Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
> > seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
> > points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
> > a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
> > Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.
> How about money? The players receive a lot of ranking bonus from their
> sponsors. Depending on the specific contract, the #1 player can get a million
> dollars or two in terms of ranking bonus per year.

What will the #7 player get? I don't think this will be a bragging poing
to Steffi, or a lucrative source of income.

Quote:
> Of course, there is also
> a lot of personal pride and/or satification involved for being a high rank
> player.

Again, no. 7 is not a point of pride or satisfaction for Steffi Graf. It
merely means that the tournament directors have a better chance of seeing
a big draw make it to the quarterfinals or better of their tournament.

dar
--
Will play tennis for food.

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Joseph Gownd » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00


Quote:



>> >         Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
>> > seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
>> > points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
>> > a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
>> > Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.

>> How about money? The players receive a lot of ranking bonus from their
>> sponsors. Depending on the specific contract, the #1 player can get a million
>> dollars or two in terms of ranking bonus per year.

>What will the #7 player get? I don't think this will be a bragging poing
>to Steffi, or a lucrative source of income.

>> Of course, there is also
>> a lot of personal pride and/or satification involved for being a high rank
>> player.

>Again, no. 7 is not a point of pride or satisfaction for Steffi Graf. It
>merely means that the tournament directors have a better chance of seeing
>a big draw make it to the quarterfinals or better of their tournament.

>dar
>--
>Will play tennis for food.

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Joseph Gownd » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Sorry about the blank post.

Look, this is a very simple issue.  While the number itself (#7) might be
arguing, seeding Graf is in the interests of all parties: tournaments,
players, and Graf herself.  Tournaments want to have as many marquee
players reach the later rounds as possible.  Other top players don't want
to face Graf in early rounds.  Graf wants to be able to play into form
without encountering a seed early in the tournament.  This way, there will
be no Hingis-Graf first rounds.  Nor any of the seeds at a tournament
versus Graf in the first round.  Makes perfect sense -- I'm sure players
agreed to it, Graf agreed to it, and tournament directors agreed to it.

It's all very simple in this case.  Now the exact NUMBER might be
debatable, but seeding her makes all kinds of sense.

        j. p.

Quote:




>>> >         Then again, the only purposes of ranking I can think of are for
>>> > seeding in tournaments, for direct entry into tournaments and for bonus
>>> > points to the winner in defeat. In all three cases, I don't see there is
>>> > a difference whether Graf get a special seeding or a special ranking.
>>> > Shun will need to explain what is the difference between the two.

>>> How about money? The players receive a lot of ranking bonus from their
>>> sponsors. Depending on the specific contract, the #1 player can get a million
>>> dollars or two in terms of ranking bonus per year.

>>What will the #7 player get? I don't think this will be a bragging poing
>>to Steffi, or a lucrative source of income.

>>> Of course, there is also
>>> a lot of personal pride and/or satification involved for being a high rank
>>> player.

>>Again, no. 7 is not a point of pride or satisfaction for Steffi Graf. It
>>merely means that the tournament directors have a better chance of seeing
>>a big draw make it to the quarterfinals or better of their tournament.

>>dar
>>--
>>Will play tennis for food.

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Robert B. Wal » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> > How about money? The players receive a lot of ranking bonus from their
> > sponsors. Depending on the specific contract, the #1 player can get a
million
> > dollars or two in terms of ranking bonus per year.

> What will the #7 player get? I don't think this will be a bragging poing
> to Steffi, or a lucrative source of income.

> > Of course, there is also
> > a lot of personal pride and/or satification involved for being a high rank
> > player.

> Again, no. 7 is not a point of pride or satisfaction for Steffi Graf. It
> merely means that the tournament directors have a better chance of seeing
> a big draw make it to the quarterfinals or better of their tournament.

Well -- I would say Graf isn't in it for the prestige. I would also say
that a special ranking shouldn't be a basis for contract payouts.

In Graf's case, of course, the purpose of the special ranking is
to determine seeding and admission to tournaments. I suspect, though
that the tour players want her to be seeded. The top players because
they don't want to have to play her early, and the rest of the players
because they don't want to have to play *both* Graf and another seed
in the early rounds. Bad enough to have to play one of them. :-)

As far as the distinction between ranking and special ranking, in
any given tournament, it makes no difference. But there is a
difference in the long run: The special ranking is a temporary
thing, with a deadline (in this case, the U.S. Open). Whereas
the actual ranking has continuity, and will remain meaningful
in the future.

There is another difference between this and regular ranking:
Under the special ranking system, there are *two #7 players.*
Does it matter? Sure it does. It means that a tournament in
which Graf is entered has 35 extra quality points available
(#7 gets 43 points, #57 only 8) -- twice that in the slams.
That potentially means about 500 extra points in the year-end
pool. I'm not sure what effect this has, but it means something. :-)

So to sum up, at any given moment, the difference between
ranking and special ranking is indeed a "distinction without
a difference." But over time there is indeed a difference.

--
Robert B. Waltz
(e-mail address hidden to avoid spam)

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Shun Cheun » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> In Graf's case, of course, the purpose of the special ranking is
> to determine seeding and admission to tournaments. I suspect, though
> that the tour players want her to be seeded. The top players because
> they don't want to have to play her early, and the rest of the players
> because they don't want to have to play *both* Graf and another seed
> in the early rounds. Bad enough to have to play one of them. :-)

I would imagine that the tournaments don't want to see some Hingis-Graf
1R or Davenport-Graf 2R match ups, especially if they pay some sort of
appearance fees (or whatever it is called to make it "legal") to get the top
stars to participate, and I would imagine that other top players don't want
to play Graf in the early rounds.

However, if you happen to be the 8th seed in an 8-seed field or the 16th
seed in a GS event. Suddenly you are unseeded because one position is
given to Graf, and worse yet, you happen to draw Hingis in the 1R. You
would be pretty unhappy about Graf's special seeding, wouldn't you?

 
 
 

Graf gets special ranking

Post by Robert B. Wal » Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> I would imagine that the tournaments don't want to see some Hingis-Graf
> 1R or Davenport-Graf 2R match ups, especially if they pay some sort of
> appearance fees (or whatever it is called to make it "legal") to get the top
> stars to participate, and I would imagine that other top players don't want
> to play Graf in the early rounds.

> However, if you happen to be the 8th seed in an 8-seed field or the 16th
> seed in a GS event. Suddenly you are unseeded because one position is
> given to Graf, and worse yet, you happen to draw Hingis in the 1R. You
> would be pretty unhappy about Graf's special seeding, wouldn't you?

Of course. Or if you're the 22th-ranked player in a 28-draw (isn't that
the one who qualifies directly, exclusing qualifiers and wildcards? If
that's wrong, then insert whatever number it is) and get bumped into
qualifying by her entry.

There will always be someone affected for the worse. I imagine
Kournikova is looking toward the U.S. Open and thinking "1 place
from a seed" right now. :-)

But this is two upset players in a 28 player draw, and 26 happy
players. Politics says the 26 players will win. :-)

--
Robert B. Waltz
(e-mail address hidden to avoid spam)