New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Jim Munro x24 » Sun, 12 Jul 1992 04:00:57


I have two boards, an old 9'1" Seatrend Epoxy Slalom (yes, the original Randy
French), and a newish 8'10" custom glass wave board.

The wave board does exactly what I need. It's easy to ride, very maneuverable,
and as one would expect from a wave board, not super fast, but it is great fun.
It also needs quite a bit of wind to make it go, and I find it gets used much
\more often on the ocean than lakes or Coyote.

My Seatrend seems to have almost the same wind range. It is difficult to jibe,
falls off a plane easily, and flies off the top of Coyote Point chop.

I recently tried a BIC Adagio which though only 8'10" seems much easier
to sail than my SEatrend and it goes a hell of a lot faster. No wonder
my friend was outsailing me consistently, I had no idea how much better the newer
boards are.

I want a new board, primarily for 5.0-6.0 conditions. I weigh around 180 lbs,
I can sail OK, can manage extreme conditions pretty well, but I'm not a
refined sailor, having not developed true high speed, am not that good at
pointing, and can only halfway jibe.

So I want something which will still be fairly small and light so it can
handle ocean and Coyote chop, but I want it to have good speed and upwind
ability, and yet still maintain a plane in marginal winds. I will use
it at San Luis, at Coyote, and any time ther is not enough wind for my
wave board.

I think the BIC Adagio is pretty close to it, but Windsurfing Express tried
to sell me a BIC Presto (9'2" 19 lbs). I am also interested in the newer
bulb tail Seatrends, perhaps a 9'0" or even a 9'2" but no bigger than that. I
have even beed advised to look at teh Electric Rock.

Wahat do you guys think of these (and other) boards. Comments please.

Jim Munro

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Robert Poortin » Mon, 13 Jul 1992 14:04:00


Quote:
>I want a new board, primarily for 5.0-6.0 conditions...  I want something
>which will still be fairly small and light so it can handle ocean and
>Coyote chop, but I want it to have good speed and upwind ability...
> (rest deleted...)
>I think the BIC Adagio is pretty close to it, but Windsurfing Express tried
>to sell me a BIC Presto (9'2" 19 lbs). I am also interested in the newer
>bulb tail Seatrends, perhaps a 9'0" or even a 9'2" but no bigger than that. I
>have even beed advised to look at the Electric Rock.

>What do you guys think of these (and other) boards. Comments please.

The Adagio is a two year-old design, the Presto is a new design but probably
a little big for what you want.

Although I haven't ridden one, I have heard glowing reports about the F2
Sputniks (both 270 and 280).  Right now you can probably get one for less
than $900.  They are really supposed to scream.  They are fairly flat, so
I don't know how well they handle chop.

Bob Poortinga  (6'0", 180 lbs)      It's a hard wind that's gonna blow...

[O'Brien 8'8", Bic Hard Rock 9'3", O'Brien GS Race 12', North & Waddell quiver]

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Will Est » Tue, 14 Jul 1992 05:18:09


Quote:
>I recently tried a BIC Adagio which though only 8'10" seems much easier
>to sail than my SEatrend and it goes a hell of a lot faster. No wonder
>my friend was outsailing me consistently, I had no idea how much better the newer
>boards are.

I sail the Adagio, and my two complaints about it are: 1) it is much too
fast (for my comfort level, at least), and 2) it likes to go straight
and does not carve well on swells.  To its credit, it is a great board
for going fast through chop (the Electric Rock and Astro Rock tend to
bounce much more, by comparison).  Personally, I am thinking eventually
of trading the Adagio for something like a Mistral Stinger, which is
slower but much turnier.  But then again my preference is to have a board
that turns effortlessly/quickly, as I have never found going over 30+ mph
through four foot swell to be fun.  Maybe that will change once I start to
develop as a sailor a bit more.  I find that at Coyote my Adagio will
just haul ass through swell as soon as I plane, and I get "involuntary
air" and quickly lose most of my control.

Quote:
>I think the BIC Adagio is pretty close to it, but Windsurfing Express tried
>to sell me a BIC Presto (9'2" 19 lbs). I am also interested in the newer
>bulb tail Seatrends, perhaps a 9'0" or even a 9'2" but no bigger than that. I
>have even beed advised to look at teh Electric Rock.

I think my ideal board quiver with the above two boards would be:

Board           Conditions

Presto          anything above 5.5
Adagio          4.7-5.5
Mistral Ecstasy 3.5-4.5

If I had to choose one board for all conditions, given the fact that you
are already an intermediate, I would go with the Adagio.  I have sailed
it with a 4.5 in 4.0 conditions, and I can survive on it.  I have also
taken it out on a 6.5.  The Presto is a big board with
125 liters of flotation.  I can't imagine it doing well on the ocean in
big swell on a 4.0-4.5 day.



 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by William Warburt » Tue, 14 Jul 1992 19:32:13

|> develop as a sailor a bit more.  I find that at Coyote my Adagio will
|> just haul ass through swell as soon as I plane, and I get "involuntary
|> air" and quickly lose most of my control.

 Hi,
        I have this problem too (losing control by getting bounced off
chop) Anyone offer any advice?

Thanks,
        W.
--
VitSea 292, Tiga Slalom, Baxter 270 wave and half a Fanatic Bee,
6.2 Topsail 5.1/4.6 Tushinghams 4.2 sShokwave & half a Gaastra 3.2 :-)
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by felix.cabr » Wed, 15 Jul 1992 00:33:19

Quote:


>|> develop as a sailor a bit more.  I find that at Coyote my Adagio will
>|> just haul ass through swell as soon as I plane, and I get "involuntary
>|> air" and quickly lose most of my control.

> Hi,
>    I have this problem too (losing control by getting bounced off
>chop) Anyone offer any advice?

I sail almost exclusively in choppy waters. I find that if I have too much
weight on my feet (aka standing too straight up) I will loose some control
in high speeds over chop. The key is to lean back on your rig taking the
weight off your feet. At the same time use your legs to absorb the shock.
If you allow the chop to bounce you into a straight up position you'll
loose your control. Works for me :-)

--

AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzz!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {    (908)957-5081   }       and a company sickday!"

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Kor Kil » Wed, 15 Jul 1992 04:10:18


Quote:

> |> develop as a sailor a bit more.  I find that at Coyote my Adagio will
> |> just haul ass through swell as soon as I plane, and I get "involuntary
> |> air" and quickly lose most of my control.

>  Hi,
>    I have this problem too (losing control by getting bounced off
> chop) Anyone offer any advice?

You can pre jump waves so you don't get air but it's mostly a matter of
experience.  Practice chop hopping, especiall getting the board to bear
off the wind in the air so that you can land and don't spin out.  Your
overall physical condition can make a big difference to.  Conditions that
give me grief when I'm tired are a challenging playground when I'm rested.
--

Bailey/Howe Library
University of Vermont
Burlington, VT 05405             (802) 656-8290
 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Juri Munk » Wed, 15 Jul 1992 06:20:26

Quote:

>    I have this problem too (losing control by getting bounced off
>chop) Anyone offer any advice?

Get a better fin and better sails. Improve your speed and board control
skills.

I had this problem last year. This year it disappeared, but I have a
new fin and an almost totally new quiver of sails. The fin makes a
big difference in all conditions and the sails really help when I'm
sailing overpowered (I'm beginning to enjoy sailing overpowered).

I'm not sure if I'm a better sailor than last year, but at least I'm
now having a lot more fun than last year.

--
  Juri Munkki                                          Windsurf: fast sailing

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by William Warburt » Wed, 15 Jul 1992 18:27:13

|> >
|> You can pre jump waves so you don't get air but it's mostly a matter of
|> experience.  Practice chop hopping, especiall getting the board to bear
|> off the wind in the air so that you can land and don't spin out.  Your

 This sounds like good advice- I was sailing last night (4 Sq m weather)
and had the same problems again. I asked a guy on the beach and he
suggested pre-jumping too. I think my main problem is losing it when
I get airborne- I don't know how to blast out over the tops of the
waves and keep control.

 Is this where I need to twist the board downwind with my feet when in
the air? What should I do with my weight? Keep it on the rig? Down
through the mastfoot?

|> overall physical condition can make a big difference to.  Conditions that
|> give me grief when I'm tired are a challenging playground when I'm rested.

 Yes- I manage a lot better after a rest on the beach than when I've
been bounced around in the waves for half an hour!

        W.

--
VitSea 292, Tiga Slalom, Baxter 270 wave and half a Fanatic Bee,
6.2 Topsail 5.1/4.6 Tushinghams 4.2 sShokwave & half a Gaastra 3.2 :-)
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Kor Kil » Thu, 16 Jul 1992 00:32:11


Quote:

> |> >
> |> You can pre jump waves so you don't get air but it's mostly a matter of
> |> experience.  Practice chop hopping, especiall getting the board to bear
> |> off the wind in the air so that you can land and don't spin out.  Your

>  This sounds like good advice- I was sailing last night (4 Sq m weather)
> and had the same problems again. I asked a guy on the beach and he
> suggested pre-jumping too. I think my main problem is losing it when
> I get airborne- I don't know how to blast out over the tops of the
> waves and keep control.

>  Is this where I need to twist the board downwind with my feet when in
> the air? What should I do with my weight? Keep it on the rig? Down
> through the mastfoot?

   Yes,  push forward a bit with your front foot and pull in a bit with the
   back.  If you get more substantial air, lifting the windward rail will
   cause the wind to blow the nose more downwind.  I'm not sure what to say
   about what to do with your weight.  If you're just skipping off the top
   of some chop that isn't huge you don't have time to change too much.  May-
   be someone else can help you more.  If you just keep practicing it will
   come to you.  I think one of the most important things to realize is that
   if you come off a bit of chop and your fin comes out of the water, if
   you're putting pressure on your back foot, you're going to spin out.
   Your're especially prone to this if most of your weight is on the booms.
   If you rig your booms fairly low for these conditions,  you'll be sailing
   more upright and have more control.
--

Bailey/Howe Library
University of Vermont
Burlington, VT 05405             (802) 656-8290
 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Bill Martins » Thu, 16 Jul 1992 01:48:50

Quote:


>|> >
>|> You can pre jump waves so you don't get air but it's mostly a matter of
>|> experience.  Practice chop hopping, especiall getting the board to bear
>|> off the wind in the air so that you can land and don't spin out.  Your

> This sounds like good advice- I was sailing last night (4 Sq m weather)
>and had the same problems again. I asked a guy on the beach and he
>suggested pre-jumping too. I think my main problem is losing it when
>I get airborne- I don't know how to blast out over the tops of the
>waves and keep control.

Pre jumping will help but the best way to avoid getting air is to look
ahead and follow the smoothest path.  Don't just put the hammer down and
try and blast your way through the chop.  Be selective about which way
you go over chop.  With the high speeds of course/slalom boards it will
take much practice to re-act an follow a smooth path.  

Its alot like skiing bumps!

Bill Martinson
US-940

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Lynd Wieman;685-3751;63-356;LP=A;P0 » Thu, 16 Jul 1992 00:31:11


|> >      I have this problem too (losing control by getting bounced off
|> >chop) Anyone offer any advice?
|>
|> Get a better fin and better sails. Improve your speed and board control
|> skills.
|>
|> I had this problem last year. This year it disappeared, but I have a
|> new fin and an almost totally new quiver of sails. The fin makes a
|> big difference in all conditions and the sails really help when I'm
|> sailing overpowered (I'm beginning to enjoy sailing overpowered).

I recently got the chance to try my brothers new equipment.  He just
got a Mike's Lab board with blade fin, Windwing monofilm sails, carbon
mast and boom.  I believe this stuff is generally believed to be some
of the best equipment available.  I had lots of trouble getting bounced
off the chop and my brother, who is a very experienced sailor, has the same problem.  

Sailing on that equipment was incredible.  When I first started it was
difficult to waterstart, and once up I felt slow and awkward until I
finally got settled into the harness and straps.  Then I was suddenly
off like a rocket, careening out of control, going faster then I had
ever gone on a sailboard, weaving between other sailors as I flew past
them.

My brother said it took awhile to get used to this stuff and he felt it
would always be harder to control in chop then equipment that is designed
more for control and a little less for raw speed.

When the chop was real big I was actually able to go faster then my
brother when I was on my board that is usually pretty slow, but is heavier
and stays on the water a little better.  My brother is a better sailor then
me so I think it was the equipment that made the difference.

So you can't just say get 'better' equipment.  Different equipment works
better in different conditions.

Lynd

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 02:59:55

Quote:
>I want a new board, primarily for 5.0-6.0 conditions. I weigh around 180 lbs,
>I can sail OK, can manage extreme conditions pretty well, but I'm not a
>refined sailor, having not developed true high speed, am not that good at
>pointing, and can only halfway jibe.

Drop by ASD and try one of their boards before you buy production.  A used
epoxy board may be alot easer to sail fast with and plane early than a new
production board.       It certainly goes upwind well.

kirk out

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Fri, 17 Jul 1992 03:13:38

   If you rig your booms fairly low for these conditions,  you'll be sailing
   more upright and have more control.
--

----------
Trouble is, you're also going much slower so it is easier to keep the board
on the water.  There is a trick to sailing fast at Coyote and other
choppy sites and I think practice.....^12 is what it takes plus very
strong legs which one gets with practice.  I can almost keep up
with some very fast sailors at Coyote, but my legs seem to melt after a bit
and I have to back-off.  When I get tired with my new epoxy board and blade
fin, I almost always spin-out which I believe is due to not absorbing
the chop with my legs or quickly carving through the path of least
bumping.  Remindes me alot of skiing moguels (sp?).

Also, with a low boom in big chop, you can get a hard knock in the side
when you are going fast.

Kirk out

 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Tom Alber » Sat, 18 Jul 1992 00:03:02

In rec.windsurfing,  (Robert Poortinga) writes:

Quote:
>  (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
> >I want a new board, primarily for 5.0-6.0 conditions...  I want something
> >which will still be fairly small and light so it can handle ocean and
> >Coyote chop, but I want it to have good speed and upwind ability...
> > (rest deleted...)
> >I think the BIC Adagio is pretty close to it, but Windsurfing Express tried
> >to sell me a BIC Presto (9'2" 19 lbs). I am also interested in the newer
> >bulb tail Seatrends, perhaps a 9'0" or even a 9'2" but no bigger than that.
> >I have even beed advised to look at the Electric Rock.

> The Adagio is a two year-old design, the Presto is a new design but probably
> a little big for what you want.

> Although I haven't ridden one, I have heard glowing reports about the F2
> Sputniks (both 270 and 280).  

        Hi Bob... I don't think that any 8'-10", 105 liter board or larger
        will handle 5.0 Coyote chop very well.  I think Jim's right in
        wanting something small and light, but I don't consider any of the
        boards mentioned as in that category.  Maybe the Sputnik 270.
        Seems like an 8'-6" "bump and jump" would be a better choice.  The
        Tiga 260 comes to mind.  Or a Seatrend or AHD.  The "bulb tail"
        boards have good upwind ability but sacrifice control.  The
        thinner boards can be just as fast, but easier to jibe.  Get
        your upwind ability with a larger fin.  
 
 
 

New Board Advice Wanted, PLease

Post by Jim Pau » Sat, 18 Jul 1992 01:24:33

Quote:

> Pre jumping will help but the best way to avoid getting air is to look
> ahead and follow the smoothest path.  Don't just put the hammer down and
> try and blast your way through the chop.  Be selective about which way
> you go over chop.  With the high speeds of course/slalom boards it will
> take much practice to re-act an follow a smooth path.  

> Its alot like skiing bumps!

> Bill Martinson
> US-940

Skiing is exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread!  Bouncing through
bumps is a challenge to the senses, reflexes, as well the joints! :^)  You
continuously choose/update your line through moguls, whether you prefer
to turn off the tops of bumps, or in the troughs.  Similiarly, sailing in
big chop, avoid the cresting waves by bearing off, or pre-jump.

I learned an interesting thing in the Duke of Nuke High Wind Clinic last
summer about chop/white caps.  When looking for the steepest chop to either
jump/avoid, the wave that FOLLOWS cresting chop(white cap) will be the
steepest!  There will be a deep trough behind the white cap, which then sucks
out a steep ramp on the next one!  This was Pat Dougherty advice, and he
certainly enjoys a lot of air time!  Check it out, I find it to be true!

Jim Paugh
ICL, Inc.
Irvine, CA