Duck Jibe help

Duck Jibe help

Post by David » Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:54:38


Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
before going under the sail?
                 Thanks
                        Dave
 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Alan » Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:47:47


Quote:
> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

I'll frequently duck jibe before I even start turning the board. It's always
seemed easier to me to err on the early side of the jibe.   Above all keep
your speed up. If you're fully planning at a good speed you can do almost
anything with the sail.

Alan

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by frusdni » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:59:11

Dave,


Someone told me or I discovered that going late means you'll miss badly,
but basically sink lazily backwards into the water.  There are no exciting
wipeouts that way.  So, I started late and brought it further and further
back until I knew when to go.  The half-dozen times I've gone early and
let the mast go too far down I've ended up with a big-time launch over the
front of the board.  Fun, but several times I've hit my head on the bottom
in too-shallow water, and I worried about hurting my ankle in the strap.

But, as Alan says, later you want to go pretty early.  I think Peter Hart
said if you think of a jibe as taking 4 seconds you flip on second 2 or 3
in a regular jibe and second 1 on a duck jibe.  Keep in mind that if you
are ducking a med-to-big sail, you may want to go later because the risk
of the mast hitting the water is greater.  I go earlier on my 5.4 than I
do my 6.6.  The very old 4.7 I use rarely is super fun because once in
awhile I can get it around so early that it's all carve after that, and
you can really crank that sucker.

All of my jibes are rusty right now because I've been injured for a good
part of the last two years.  I look forward to cranking some more soon,
though.

Sorry about the verbose post.

Hans


Quote:

> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

--
Hans -
http://www.windsurfingradio.com/
http://windsurf.hansanderson.com/
**** remove the z's from my email address to reach me ****

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by MTVNewsG » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:18:11

You are much better off starting too early than too late.   Too late and
there's nothing you can do to exit with a duck jibe.    Too early and you can
leisurely carve around before you grab the new side.

The usual coaching that people working on ducks need is to :
1.    start much sooner than you think you should,
2.    move the rig much more slowly than you think you should.

Keep your chin up, hips pushing forward and into the turn, your head focused
forward and to the inside of the turn, and keep your torso still.

One great description of duck jibing I read was to start a carve, then
immediately do a sail 180 (flipping the sail from standard to clew first
sailing).   Then keep carving.
Michael  

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Jeff aka shredula » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:06:02

duck gybes are fun even when you crash at least i see it that way
everyone is an adventure!!!
  if you are in overpowering conditons the gybe may be harder.
   As you know apparent wind drops to zero or maybe even a backwind
may ensue in medium conditions, as you carve dead downwind for a short
time in the gybe.
  You can have a longer time period of low to no apparent wind in
medium condtions as board speed can still be relativley high. longer
wider carve, more time, more speed longer wider turn more time. Hard
carve med or high wind little time.

   In high wind you may not be able to match the wind speed with board
speed as you carve off, so the sail may be loaded up thru the manuver,
this is hard but its gotta be blowing bark off trees or youre sailing
a slug ( or both) for this to happen.
   More speed the better, in all conditons. This gives more time for
more hand work or even blowing the first grab under the foot of the
sail and attempting a second. In light airs IMHO the duck gybe is
harder yet easier. dropping early risks backwinding , but the sail is
so lightly loaded that you can really flub the whole, process, and  if
you have good balance come out with some configuration of boom in you
hands and sail barely away. med airs you can be late or early better
early IMHO more time to***up and recover yea with a big sail you
can hit the luff n the drink for an early exit.

   High winds are the most tenuous , think speed speed speed, early or
midway but never late dropping the front hand. if you mess up there no
time to recover you'll be left rounding up with a increasingly heavily
loaded sail and barely any  time to grab , or no grab sail clew up
mast down and a crash.
   better yet  if trying steer deeeper to buy  more time the apparent
wind will build and you'll be screaming dead down wind with impeding
mind rending body bending crash shortly after ...
 if your a hero you can pull it off and look like a hero but if you
muff it you'll be a zero, these gybes in heavy airs are better with an
appreciating audience,  either outcome you be the talk of the day!!

heh heh been there done ( both of )that.

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Steve Elliot » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:12:33

One thing about the duck gybe I've noticed from repeated occurrences is
the launch. Some crashes are so bad you just get thrown. But if you do
as everyone says and duck the sail earlier, way more than you'd expect,
the sail will be downwind while you are launched parallel to the wind.
Which means you go one way the sail the other. And that's a good thing.

The sequence: clear yourself first (always), reach way back (It helps to
have a visual point for your back hand - I use the 'ii' in Hawaiian Pro
Line), back foot out and over the centerline, start to turn downwind and
immediately let go of your front hand.

Your sail will swing downwind like a swinging door. If you let it go
down too far and stick the mast, that's when the launch occurs. But no
problem, the board comes to a screeching halt, and you go over the
rails. In front of the board, where there is little danger of hurting
yourself or your board. If you wait too long, then you can be thrown
into your gear. However whenever I have waited too long, I just sort of
stall out and nothing really bad happens.

So flip early. And try to keep your foot pressure even carving evenly
for the remainder of the move.

Steve

Quote:

> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Bill Kli » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:26:41

One thing I learned from watching Robbie Naish years ago, (his were the most
dynamic), is that just after you grab the boom on the other side, pull it back
just like you would if preparing to throw a spear or a javelin.

Doing such with confidence and with practice, authority, puts the sail right in
front of you and with good stance to finish.

Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649  fax/541 386 1715

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by MTVNewsG » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:07:06

The best way to avoid getting launched is (in my opinion) to keep your chin up
and back straight when you lean forward into the turn.  I only stick the mast
when I get sloppy.

I respectfully disagree about the visual point on the boom...I suggest not
looking at the rig at all during the duck, instead focusing on where you're
going so that the carve is smooth.

I do like Steve's description of the rig swinging down into the turn like a
door...that's what it feels like to me.

Flip early.   Make a point of flipping WAY too early just to find out what
that's like.   You may find out that there is no "too early".

Steve wrote<<
One thing about the duck gybe I've noticed from repeated occurrences is
the launch. Some crashes are so bad you just get thrown. But if you do
as everyone says and duck the sail earlier, way more than you'd expect,
the sail will be downwind while you are launched parallel to the wind.
Which means you go one way the sail the other. And that's a good thing.

The sequence: clear yourself first (always), reach way back (It helps to
have a visual point for your back hand - I use the 'ii' in Hawaiian Pro
Line), back foot out and over the centerline, start to turn downwind and
immediately let go of your front hand.

Your sail will swing downwind like a swinging door. If you let it go
down too far and stick the mast, that's when the launch occurs. But no
problem, the board comes to a screeching halt, and you go over the
rails. In front of the board, where there is little danger of hurting
yourself or your board. If you wait too long, then you can be thrown
into your gear. However whenever I have waited too long, I just sort of
stall out and nothing really bad happens.

So flip early. And try to keep your foot pressure even carving evenly
for the remainder of the move.

Steve

Quote:

> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

 >><BR><BR>

Michael  

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Berti » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:20:09

just flip the sail way earlier that u could ever imagine and u will nail
them.

bertie


Quote:
> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Jeff McVanne » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:36:09

OK now that you know what to do and you practice it several hundred times
it's time to jazz it up a bit.
One thing I like to do is to turn it into a 360. After you get on the other
side of the booms (early as everyone has suggested) just keep carving the
board around to point into the wind and backwind the sail at this point like
a heli tack. This is where it becomes a challenge because you have to get
the nose of the board through the wind as well as push the clue through the
wind (as our fearless leader would say "it's hard"). Be prepared for a big
tug as the clue goes through. Now just stand more upright sailing clue first
for a moment to regain stability, flip the sail and your sailing in the
original direction. A totally non functional move but it is fun.
Next you could try to turn a duck jibe into a monkey jibe.
And on and on.
Don't be afraid to try more stuff, It definitely keeps things interesting.
Jeff


Quote:
> Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> before going under the sail?
>                  Thanks
>                         Dave

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Florian Feuser /FFF » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:50:55


Quote:
> The best way to avoid getting launched is (in my opinion)
> to keep your chin up
> and back straight when you lean forward into the turn.  

<snip>

Quote:

> Flip early.   Make a point of flipping WAY too early
> just to find out what
> that's like.   You may find out that there is no "too early".

I agree with jibing the sail earlier at the beginning but I caution against
being too upright during the turn. It usually translates into leaning back and
losing speed which is one of the possible problems in completing the sail jibe.
As soon as the apparent wind hits the leech from behind, it will be nearly
impossible to bring the sail back and grab the boom on the new side.

My advice is to start trying duck jibes from a broad reach so you can be sure to
accumulate enough speed to outsail the wind. Throw the sail as you shift your
weight forwards and into the curve to initiate the turn. By the time you're
going dead downwind, you should have control of the boom on the new side. Keep
carving in a wide radius and lean forward onto the boom to avoid losing speed
now.

Duck jibes from beam reach to beam reach and in powered, choppy conditions are
not exactly easy as you can tell from the carnage at the Super-x jibe marks.

I usually***up when going up a sail size or two - either sticking the mast
or stalling downwind if the board stops turning because of the greater swing
weight of bigger sails. Sails under 6.0m are a good idea for practicing your
first duck jibes.

florian /FFF/

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Alan » Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:40:47

Ah, but have you done an off the lip or back loop clew first yet?

Alan

--
Windsurfing Club: http://www.ibscc.org


Quote:
> OK now that you know what to do and you practice it several hundred times
> it's time to jazz it up a bit.
> One thing I like to do is to turn it into a 360. After you get on the
other
> side of the booms (early as everyone has suggested) just keep carving the
> board around to point into the wind and backwind the sail at this point
like
> a heli tack. This is where it becomes a challenge because you have to get
> the nose of the board through the wind as well as push the clue through
the
> wind (as our fearless leader would say "it's hard"). Be prepared for a big
> tug as the clue goes through. Now just stand more upright sailing clue
first
> for a moment to regain stability, flip the sail and your sailing in the
> original direction. A totally non functional move but it is fun.
> Next you could try to turn a duck jibe into a monkey jibe.
> And on and on.
> Don't be afraid to try more stuff, It definitely keeps things interesting.
> Jeff



> > Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> > worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> > gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> > I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> > spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> > more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> > pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> > before going under the sail?
> >                  Thanks
> >                         Dave

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Jeff McVanne » Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:16:15

NO!
I am getting sailing back winded up the line and starting to get one handed
(front hand off) aireals off the lip.
Jeff


Quote:
> Ah, but have you done an off the lip or back loop clew first yet?

> Alan

> --
> Windsurfing Club: http://www.ibscc.org



> > OK now that you know what to do and you practice it several hundred
times
> > it's time to jazz it up a bit.
> > One thing I like to do is to turn it into a 360. After you get on the
> other
> > side of the booms (early as everyone has suggested) just keep carving
the
> > board around to point into the wind and backwind the sail at this point
> like
> > a heli tack. This is where it becomes a challenge because you have to
get
> > the nose of the board through the wind as well as push the clue through
> the
> > wind (as our fearless leader would say "it's hard"). Be prepared for a
big
> > tug as the clue goes through. Now just stand more upright sailing clue
> first
> > for a moment to regain stability, flip the sail and your sailing in the
> > original direction. A totally non functional move but it is fun.
> > Next you could try to turn a duck jibe into a monkey jibe.
> > And on and on.
> > Don't be afraid to try more stuff, It definitely keeps things
interesting.
> > Jeff



> > > Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
> > > worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> > > gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
> > > I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> > > spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> > > more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> > > pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> > > before going under the sail?
> > >                  Thanks
> > >                         Dave

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Steve Elliot » Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:22:11

Actually, the visual is not that much of a distraction. I typically move
my hand back early, which seems to add speed when I'm not totally lit to
begin with, and when I look back to clear myself before starting I can
make minor adjustments in back-hand position. Now, I don't do that at
all any more, it's pretty much second nature to place my hand in a good
position, but I do remember when learning it was a big help for me to
have a consistent approach all the time, so that when I was bobbing in
the water thinking "What did I do wrong that time?" I could eliminate as
many things as possible.

Steve

Quote:

> The best way to avoid getting launched is (in my opinion) to keep your chin up
> and back straight when you lean forward into the turn.  I only stick the mast
> when I get sloppy.

> I respectfully disagree about the visual point on the boom...I suggest not
> looking at the rig at all during the duck, instead focusing on where you're
> going so that the carve is smooth.

> I do like Steve's description of the rig swinging down into the turn like a
> door...that's what it feels like to me.

> Flip early.   Make a point of flipping WAY too early just to find out what
> that's like.   You may find out that there is no "too early".

> Steve wrote<<
> One thing about the duck gybe I've noticed from repeated occurrences is
> the launch. Some crashes are so bad you just get thrown. But if you do
> as everyone says and duck the sail earlier, way more than you'd expect,
> the sail will be downwind while you are launched parallel to the wind.
> Which means you go one way the sail the other. And that's a good thing.

> The sequence: clear yourself first (always), reach way back (It helps to
> have a visual point for your back hand - I use the 'ii' in Hawaiian Pro
> Line), back foot out and over the centerline, start to turn downwind and
> immediately let go of your front hand.

> Your sail will swing downwind like a swinging door. If you let it go
> down too far and stick the mast, that's when the launch occurs. But no
> problem, the board comes to a screeching halt, and you go over the
> rails. In front of the board, where there is little danger of hurting
> yourself or your board. If you wait too long, then you can be thrown
> into your gear. However whenever I have waited too long, I just sort of
> stall out and nothing really bad happens.

> So flip early. And try to keep your foot pressure even carving evenly
> for the remainder of the move.

> Steve

>>Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0 and
>>worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
>>gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the flip.
>>I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
>>spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
>>more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
>>pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
>>before going under the sail?
>>                 Thanks
>>                        Dave

>  >><BR><BR>

> Michael  

 
 
 

Duck Jibe help

Post by Alan » Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:16:33

Check out this clew first off the lip from Hookipa:
http://groups.msn.com/windsurfingcincinnati/mauioct03.msnw?action=Sho...
PhotoID=747

I'd be happy just to do an off the lip on that wave.
Alan

--
Windsurfing Club: http://www.ibscc.org


Quote:
> NO!
> I am getting sailing back winded up the line and starting to get one
handed
> (front hand off) aireals off the lip.
> Jeff



> > Ah, but have you done an off the lip or back loop clew first yet?

> > Alan

> > --
> > Windsurfing Club: http://www.ibscc.org



> > > OK now that you know what to do and you practice it several hundred
> times
> > > it's time to jazz it up a bit.
> > > One thing I like to do is to turn it into a 360. After you get on the
> > other
> > > side of the booms (early as everyone has suggested) just keep carving
> the
> > > board around to point into the wind and backwind the sail at this
point
> > like
> > > a heli tack. This is where it becomes a challenge because you have to
> get
> > > the nose of the board through the wind as well as push the clue
through
> > the
> > > wind (as our fearless leader would say "it's hard"). Be prepared for a
> big
> > > tug as the clue goes through. Now just stand more upright sailing clue
> > first
> > > for a moment to regain stability, flip the sail and your sailing in
the
> > > original direction. A totally non functional move but it is fun.
> > > Next you could try to turn a duck jibe into a monkey jibe.
> > > And on and on.
> > > Don't be afraid to try more stuff, It definitely keeps things
> interesting.
> > > Jeff



> > > > Got our first good blow yesterday in Madison and got out on my 5.0
and
> > > > worked on my Duck jibes. I may have been overpowered a bit in the
> > > > gusts which didn't help but it seemed a lot of them ended at the
flip.
> > > > I could not get down to the new side to grab the boom in the right
> > > > spot before the sail blew away downwind. I made a few when I turned
> > > > more downwind before I even started the jibe and they were actually
> > > > pretty good. Does this imply I should carve deeper into the jibe
> > > > before going under the sail?
> > > >                  Thanks
> > > >                         Dave