120 vs 80 liter boards?

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by dansawyero » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:33:22


All,

I am an intermediate sailor in the Gorge. I weigh in at about 230 and typically
rig a 5.2 or a 5.7 on a 120 liter board in 22 to 26 conditions. I am trying to
transition to an 80 liter board without much success. The 120 is locked in and
consistent. However on starting the 80 either sinks in the tail or dives by the
nose.

How much of this is most likely technique? What could I be doing wrong?

How much of this is could be equipment imbalance, either wind speed or sail size?

Thanks in advance,

Dan

 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by wsurf » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:31:45

 The 120 is locked in and

Quote:
> consistent. However on starting the 80 either sinks in the tail or dives by the
> nose.

> How much of this is most likely technique? What could I be doing wrong?

At 104.5kg, 80 liters is a very small board. I think you should
probably try a 90 - 105 liter board and see what happens.

I am #245 and sailed a 100 liter Quatro at the gorge in high(ish) wind
(4.5m2) last year. I had a bum ankle, so I was just surviving not
slashing.

I am sure the 200lb. locals will chime in. Nobody would argue that #170
is different than #200. I would agree also, thus #230 is different than
#200. It would be good to find somebody your weight to compare with.

FWIW(not much),
Mark

 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by Paul Braunbehren » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:44:32

I don't know all that much about your particular circumstance, but two
things strike me.  One, is that an 80l board is tiny for a 230lb
sailor.  The other is that the jump from 120 to 80 is a huge jump.  I
weigh 180 and went from a 105l board to an 85l board with no problems.
I'd try a 100l board if I were you.


Quote:

> All,

> I am an intermediate sailor in the Gorge. I weigh in at about 230 and
> typically
> rig a 5.2 or a 5.7 on a 120 liter board in 22 to 26 conditions. I am trying
> to
> transition to an 80 liter board without much success. The 120 is locked in
> and
> consistent. However on starting the 80 either sinks in the tail or dives by
> the
> nose.

> How much of this is most likely technique? What could I be doing wrong?

> How much of this is could be equipment imbalance, either wind speed or sail
> size?

> Thanks in advance,

> Dan


 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by LeeD » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:57:43

  I posted, but didn't work.....
  Yeah, it's skill and practice.
  Bud of mine at 225 regularly rides 85 liters, I guess about 90% of
his windsurfing days, and barely uses .7 bigger than me at 150 lbs.
He's expert, of course, and ranked US SpeedTrialsAss sailor.
  His smaller board is 71 kgs.  He doesn't go out unless it's at least
16-23mph winds, then rigs a 5.8.  Of course, for his smaller board, he
needs around 23-29mph winds before taking it off his car.
 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by LeeD » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:01:02

  Or you can just apply MORE wind!
  Had a 275 lbs bud who sailed a 9'5" Seatrend all the time (128
liters).
  One windy day at FlyingTigers, in the 27-45mph range, he just jumped
on my girlfriend's 77 liter Haut polyglass wave board and sailed her
3.8 sail no problems.  I don't think he ever rode a board smaller than
his 128 liter again, as end of season was approaching, and he hurt his
knee snowmobilling the next winter, and never fully recovered.
  Actually, it's a skill and wind combo thing.  Another bud,
BobBogdanovich, at 225 lbs regularly sails a 85 liter board in
MarinCounty, before he took up kitesurfing.  He'd barely rig bigger
than me, at 150 lbs (but about .7 bigger mostly), and was the second
fastest guy sailing Larkspur, Rod&Gun, and TomalesBay.  Of course, he's
ranked top 37 in US Speedtrials rankings at Gorge's Klickatat, so he
can windsurf pretty well.
 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by Scott » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:23:45

I'm 220, so almost your weight, but not quite.
For well powered 5.8 or better, I sail 87L and love it.  When the shit
gets to 4.2 or better, I use the wifes 75L board, and it is definitely
more of a challenge.
A little tail sink on starting can happen (so can nose sink - but its
harder to recover that).
I think when you go really small on board size, you need to rely on
transferring more weight to the rig.  And not just mast base pressure,
but actually flying the rig into the wind and using the lift of the
sail to reduce the amount of weight you put into the board.  I also
need more sail area for a smaller board (not only for more lift, but
also to survive the holes in the wind)

Some of it is definitely technique for you, since 120L will allow you
to be more sloppy on footwork and balance.  Only by getting more time
on smaller boards will you learn what it takes.

I would say either go a bit larger (85-90L) or try a more modern board
with a slightly wider tail (but that is still good for Gorge
conditions).

Quote:

> All,

> I am an intermediate sailor in the Gorge. I weigh in at about 230 and typically
> rig a 5.2 or a 5.7 on a 120 liter board in 22 to 26 conditions. I am trying to
> transition to an 80 liter board without much success. The 120 is locked in and
> consistent. However on starting the 80 either sinks in the tail or dives by the
> nose.

> How much of this is most likely technique? What could I be doing wrong?

> How much of this is could be equipment imbalance, either wind speed or sail size?

> Thanks in advance,

> Dan

 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by sm.. » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:12:54

I'd reiterate the comments made here. 120 liters to 80 liters, you've
just lost one-third of your floatation; or you've ballooned up to 310
pounds! That's huge. You'd need to be sailing in winds at least 10
higher than what you have been sailing to make it work, and that can be
very intimidating jump--the whole landscape of the water changes, and
the rig reacts to gusts and lulls in a much more dramatic way. Small
boards, by their very nature, are going to be much more sensitive to
weight distribution and mast-foot pressure, and you won't be able to
make the mistakes you can make on a 120L and get planing.

Too many sailors make the mistake of trying to jump down to a real
short board once they've got the basics down on an intermediate board.
Recently I met a someone who'd been sailing a 117L board and wanted to
jump down to 76 liter board. I managed to convince her to at least go
to about 84 liters, but I only felt OK about that because she had
sailed in 3.7 conditions before.

Dan, if you've bought this board and you're wedded to it, this would be
my advice, and this are just guesses since I'm nowhere near your size:
Don't go out unless you see other sailors of similar size using
similar-size gear out there. You'll need at least 30-35mph wind, and
probably a 4.7 or a 5.2. (Most 80 liter boards don't work too well with
anything bigger anyway.)

Practice your downwind sailing skills. You'll need to be willing to
head downwind to get onto a plane and into your footstraps. That's
gonna take some courage in the wind you'll be needing. And go to a spot
where the walk of shame won't involve scrambling too far.

For waterstarts, if you don't already, put only your back foot on the
board. Some people put both feet on the board to waterstart, leaving
their body extended way out from the sail and hindering their ability
to push the sail up into the wind, hence slowing their waterstart. Even
at the Gorge, you don't want to be stuck drifting around.  Using only
one foot gives you more flexibility to extend up into the wind.

 
 
 

120 vs 80 liter boards?

Post by MituP » Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:46:09

I'm about 100kgs and found the move from a 105l to an 87l board quite a
decent jump, although I was also transition through about 3-4
generations in board design as well which didn't help (Bic Electric
Rock -> AHD 267 Free). I agree with the others who have replied, don't
go so small to start with. Get a 90-100l board to get a bit more
comfortable with smaller boards.

If you've already bought the board, then I've put some tips below, but
you'll definately need to spend some time on the board to get
comfortable with it.

1.You'll need to be more forceful with your legs while pushing the
board into line when getting going. The board is further underwater so
you're pushing the water around as well as the board.

2. Hang off the rig. The board won't support you, so if you stand
upright and put your weight on it, its just going to sink. Waterstart
straight into sailing position. If you find you've sunk and stopped,
its often easier to stop and waterstart again. That way you have a bit
of forward momentum from when you waterstart and the board moves
forward without your weight on it.

3. Don't push off the fin. Smaller board usually means smaller fin
which won't generate much lift until fully planing so be light on your
feet and be willing to steer downwind to free the board up and get on
the plane.

4. Keep your weight forward on the board when getting on the plane. I
found this out after struggling with my early planing for ages. Keep
your feet a bit more forward and hang in a more backwards direction
rather than out to keep yourself from getting catapulted. Keep the rig
upright on extended arms and drive forward instead of down with the
feet.

Hope some of this helps.

Mike