Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by michael bella » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:54:18


Currently, I have a 6.5 twin-cam UP 1994, and will be selling the rest
of my old sails.  I'd appreciate some advice on assembling a quiver of
the new 1994-1995 sails for use in southern California, with occasional
trips to NoCal and Baja.  Conditions I will be sailing in range from
15kt Seal Beach to 30kt+ Lake Isabella and Rio Vista.  Current boards
are BIC E-Rock (102 L) and F2 Orbit (124 L).  I'm 6'0", 185 lbs.  

My goal is a sail quiver that covers a wide range of conditions (flat
water/bump/small wave) with a minimal number of sails and masts.  I've
been told that the new Pryde "New Wave" RAF sails are versatile sails
that can handle a relatively wide wind range, and that I could have a
relatively complete quiver just by adding the 5.5 and 4.5 New Wave
sails.  The New Waves are reportedly an improved version of the old 4WD
single cam sails.  I haven't had a chance to try these sails yet, but I
tend to doubt that their effective wind range is really 1.0 meter.

As an alternate, I'm considering a 5.5 twin-cam and then 5.0 and 4.5 RAF
wave/slalom sails.  Eventually, I'll probably also get a smaller board
and a 4.0 sail.

Questions:

- Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?
- Is it only the cambered sails that have a full meter range?
- Should you use 1.0 meter spacing above 5.0 or 5.5, and 0.5 meter
spacings below?
- What spacings work best in your quiver?

Thanks for any input you may have.

Gordon Bloom
Huntington Beach, CA

<<<<<WAITING FOR SOME CLEARING WINDS!!!>>>>>

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by F.Cabr » Sat, 07 Jan 1995 00:00:38


Quote:

>My goal is a sail quiver that covers a wide range of conditions (flat
>water/bump/small wave) with a minimal number of sails and masts.  I've
>been told that the new Pryde "New Wave" RAF sails are versatile sails
>that can handle a relatively wide wind range, and that I could have a

...
...

Quote:
>Questions:

>- Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?
>- Is it only the cambered sails that have a full meter range?
>- Should you use 1.0 meter spacing above 5.0 or 5.5, and 0.5 meter
>spacings below?
>- What spacings work best in your quiver?

You should first know that a Pryde 5.0, North 5.0, Sailworks 5.0 and so on
are not created equal. Just because a sail is a 5.0 it may behave very
different form another manufacturers 5.0. Especially if the sail style is
different (ie wave and race). Even if they are all considered cambered racing
sails. Also, a 1994 North may be different from a 1995 North in the same style
and size. My point is even though you put a .5 or 1.0 gap between sail sizes
in your quiver the sail itself is an important component.

As an example, I had a 1993 ART 10m2 sail which I used for course racing.
Amazingly I would be able to hold onto the 1993 10m2 in winds as high as 18kts.
When I sold it and got the 1994 I could not hold onto it in anything over 15kts.
It turned out that even though the sail was still a 10m2 the differences came
in the boom and mast lengths. The 1994 had a longer boom length but a shorter
mast length. This effectively gave it the same size rating 10m2 but it totally
changed the sails characteristics. The 1994 with its longer boom was a much
better low wind sail thant the 1993. However, it suffered when the wind was
stronger. It would not handle higher winds like the 1993.

So, when you pick your quiver try to get the same year sails from the same
manufacturer. I know this may sound extreme to some but it can make a big
difference to the intermediate and above sailor. Otherwise check the boom
and mast lengths carefully. A 6.0m2 sail may sail the same as a 5.5 in a
differing make.

What do I use:

I generally use 1.0 meter difference in sail size. I find that sails nowadays
can handle larger ranges. Sails above 5.5 are all race sails with multiple
cambers. Sails 5.5 and 4.5 are bump and jump sails with one or two cambers.
Sails below 4.5 are wave sails with no cambers. My quiver has 3.5, 4.5 and 5.5.
My race sails are 6.0, 7.0, 8.0 and 10.0. I can sail the 6.0 down to conditions
where others are on 5.0's.

I own four boards. A large course board, a 282cm slalom race board, a medium
wind bump/jump board (in 265cm range) and a high wind bump/jump board (8').
I change boards more often than de-rigging which keeps me on the water when
over or under powered.

--

* AT&T Bell Labs       {    att!hoscd!felixc   }    a rad board, rad waves, *
* Holmdel,NJ           {     (908)949-1188     }    and a company sickday!" *

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by Rob Murr » Fri, 06 Jan 1995 18:41:40

Quote:
>- Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?

For sure. The drafts are so stable that once you have your lines set
right you can deal with a lot of wind as there is no tendancy for your
back arm to load up like it does with older sails as the draft moves back.

I have a hard time deciding which size to use with 1 meter spacing. I
can't imagine deciding with .5 meter spacings. With .5 meter spacing you
may also find yourself spending to much time on the beach switching sails.

Quote:
>- Is it only the cambered sails that have a full meter range?

All my sails have at least 2 cams so, I can't give you much input here.
I suspect, however, that sails with cams and tube battens have more range.

Quote:
>- Should you use 1.0 meter spacing above 5.0 or 5.5, and 0.5 meter
>spacings below?

Don't, know

Quote:
>- What spacings work best in your quiver?

I have a 7.5 (8-12 knots), 6.5 (12-19 knots), 5.5 (19-25 knots) and 4.5
(25-35 knots). In all honesty I could propbably get rid of the 6.5 and not
miss it to much as the 7.5 will easily handle 19 knots. I do plan on getting a
cheap 3.7 for the occasional 40 knot day we get.

Quote:
>Thanks for any input you may have.

By the way I weigh 155 lbs.

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by Frank Muell » Sat, 07 Jan 1995 03:20:25

Well, you can always choose something between a .5 or 1.0 spacing.
Here is my quiver:

7.5, 6.8, 6.1, 5.4, 4.7, 4.4

The top 4 sails are race sails with 3 cambers. The lower end are RAFs.

One of the reasons I prefer a smaller spacing than 1.0 is that I share
the quiver with my girl-friend. And she always sails a size below. When
the wind dies, I re-rig; if it picks up, she re-rigs. But even when I go
on my own I sometimes rig one sail, then rig a second sail when conditions
change. I personally would not go with any smaller spacing since you will
end up skipping a size when re-rigging. For a single sailor, a 1.0 spacing
will probably do if you buy the latest stuff. If you buy older stuff (used),
you may want to consider a smaller spacing since sails used to be convering
a smaller range a few years ago.

Still waiting for the cold-font...

--

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by Hobi » Sat, 07 Jan 1995 00:46:46

I am a 6'0',195lbs.
I sail Chesapeske Bay and Atlantic Ocean
I am currently using Windwing/Black Diamond Airs(single cam)
3.5,3.9,4.4,4.9,5.5 and Black Diamond SL's 6.0 and 6.7(three cams).
These are the most draft stabil sails I have sailed and many friends agree
with this. Note;I can only go by observed texture, I can't relate to wind
speeds, all information is erroneous unless anenometer is on you! Here 's
how it works:
If I launch with a 5.5, on a 8'8' board and a 12.75 fin, most others will
be on 4.9 to 5.5. As the wind picks up I can usually hang on when others
have long since been on 4.4's. This is a decision I make because I'm lazy,
rerigging costs sailing time and I'm strong with experience on a
recreational level(100 days plus/minus).This dosen't mean that I'm always
comfortable to the point of going for lots of manuvers or tricks. If the
wind is some form of west(NW)it will probably be holey and I'll stay with
the 5.5. On the occasion the wind is steadier, then after a while I'll
realize its costing me some tricks (not sailing aggressively),beginning to
lose sail trim and I would go to the 4.9 because this size will give an
edge against lulls and sailors looking to pass.
You have to remember that just because your sail is draft stabil and
actually because of this your sail trim will be relatively good. This
means speed! Not everyone is Robby Naish who can hang onto increased board
speed tracking through water that is reading two full sail sizes lower.You
will ultimately change for speed reasons. Once above 6.0, I would spread
apart further(flatter water), but let your board and manufacturer dictate
the size. In other words if I had a 6.0 Windwing and a board that would
carry a 7.0, I would buy the 6.7 because it matches the board and is
stepped correctly to the 6.0. Everyone's 6.0's are not the same size, in
fact I have seen .50sm difference.
By the way , with a good fin,slalom board and 6.7 sail you should expect
to plane off in about 12kts steady wind.
The triple cams rotate easier than my 93 Rushwind's singles, but sailing
the Black Diamond Airs is the most fun of all.
What are the group's feelings?

Hobie

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by wolfgang sorg » Sun, 08 Jan 1995 04:03:54

For me (145 pounds, 5'9"), 1 m^2 spacing works quite well:

6.5 two external cam Slalom
5.3,    4.4,    3.5    wave/ RAF

I quite often have two sails rigged at the same time (5.3 and 4.4 for example),
also I can switch boards if necessary (8'9" and 8'2"), which I do more often.
I feel that I get out more fun out of switching sails (note: not rerigging on same
mast/boom) than having "the exaclty right sail" in our gusty/ shifting conditions.

(I had an old 5.0 with me all the time but never used it)

May be I'll increase my number of wave sails from 3 to for for redundancy reasons
(failure of the 4.4 would be bad right now) and because 3.5 seems to be too big
for those really big days.

When deciding on sail sizes, try to find a good starting point, then add the other
sizes:
For me, this is the fact, that my 8'2" won't carry anything bigger than 5.3, then
I went down. The 6.5 is exclusively reserved for the 8'9" (and the 8'9" 90 % of the
time to the 6.5).

Hang loose !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Soergel, grad. Student of electrical engineering at Clemson University
220 Elm Street # 122, Clemson, S.C. 29631, Phone: (803) 654-0930
...............................................................................
5000 miles away from home :-) and my boards :-(.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by b.spedd.. » Sat, 07 Jan 1995 17:42:15

Quote:


>Subject: Re: Full meter spacing in sail quiver???
>Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:41:40
>>- Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?
>I have a hard time deciding which size to use with 1 meter spacing. I
>can't imagine deciding with .5 meter spacings. With .5 meter spacing you
>may also find yourself spending to much time on the beach switching sails.

au contraire, if you were having trouble selecting between your 5.5 and your
4.5, you could just pick your 5.0 (if you had one), and if you mis judged
you're less likely to end up back on the beach changing as the error won't be
as great

Bruce

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by Orbito Pantang » Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:38:07

: Currently, I have a 6.5 twin-cam UP 1994, and will be selling the rest
: of my old sails.  I'd appreciate some advice on assembling a quiver of
: the new 1994-1995 sails for use in southern California, with occasional
: trips to NoCal and Baja.  Conditions I will be sailing in range from
: 15kt Seal Beach to 30kt+ Lake Isabella and Rio Vista.  Current boards
: are BIC E-Rock (102 L) and F2 Orbit (124 L).  I'm 6'0", 185 lbs.  

: My goal is a sail quiver that covers a wide range of conditions (flat
: water/bump/small wave) with a minimal number of sails and masts.  I've
: been told that the new Pryde "New Wave" RAF sails are versatile sails
: that can handle a relatively wide wind range, and that I could have a
: relatively complete quiver just by adding the 5.5 and 4.5 New Wave
: sails.  The New Waves are reportedly an improved version of the old 4WD
: single cam sails.  I haven't had a chance to try these sails yet, but I
: tend to doubt that their effective wind range is really 1.0 meter.

: As an alternate, I'm considering a 5.5 twin-cam and then 5.0 and 4.5 RAF
: wave/slalom sails.  Eventually, I'll probably also get a smaller board
: and a 4.0 sail.

: Questions:

: - Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?
: - Is it only the cambered sails that have a full meter range?
: - Should you use 1.0 meter spacing above 5.0 or 5.5, and 0.5 meter
: spacings below?
: - What spacings work best in your quiver?

: Thanks for any input you may have.

: Gordon Bloom
: Huntington Beach, CA

: <<<<<WAITING FOR SOME CLEARING WINDS!!!>>>>>

 
 
 

Full meter spacing in sail quiver???

Post by Orbito Pantang » Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:39:50

: >- Do the new-style sails really have a full meter effective wind range?

: For sure. The drafts are so stable that once you have your lines set
: right you can deal with a lot of wind as there is no tendancy for your
: back arm to load up like it does with older sails as the draft moves back.

: I have a hard time deciding which size to use with 1 meter spacing. I
: can't imagine deciding with .5 meter spacings. With .5 meter spacing you
: may also find yourself spending to much time on the beach switching sails.

: >- Is it only the cambered sails that have a full meter range?

: All my sails have at least 2 cams so, I can't give you much input here.
: I suspect, however, that sails with cams and tube battens have more range.

: >- Should you use 1.0 meter spacing above 5.0 or 5.5, and 0.5 meter
: >spacings below?

: Don't, know

: >- What spacings work best in your quiver?

: I have a 7.5 (8-12 knots), 6.5 (12-19 knots), 5.5 (19-25 knots) and 4.5
: (25-35 knots). In all honesty I could propbably get rid of the 6.5 and not
: miss it to much as the 7.5 will easily handle 19 knots. I do plan on getting a
: cheap 3.7 for the occasional 40 knot day we get.

: >Thanks for any input you may have.

: By the way I weigh 155 lbs.