by Craig Goudi » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 04:47:19
Personally I use a cello to pull rabbits from. Now it's a magician's
musician's joke 8*)
-Craig
>>> and viola, less friction and more speed.
>> Sounds like the punch line to a musician's joke.
>> ;-)
>> Florian
> I think he was speaking cymbalically.
> ;)
> mo
> --
> Team Coyote
> http://www.teamcoyote.net
by M. Gun » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:04:01
Tastes just like chicken...but a little too wiggly!
;)
mo
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
by Dan Weis » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:30:59
Here is the history lesson for today: Bruce Peterson, along with Dave
Russell, is credited with developing the first mass produced loose
leach design in 1988/98 under the Rushwind brand. He also developed
the Gaastra version of that sail called the Gorge Slalom LE or
something like that. I had several of the Gaastra versions and they
were a huge improvement over the same year's Gaastra Racefoil. Very
stable in the gusts and stupid fast. I wouldn't be suprised if he was
not the first to think about using a pretwisted leech as a way to
control leech tension when underway, nor would it suprise me of other
sailmakers had made prototypes.
Loose leech sails were not slow to be adopted! Every sail brand
followed suit more or less with a year. The very next year, NP had
the Slalom Pro Mk1, Gaastra's Racefoil had a loose leech, Windwing's
Race also used a loose leech. I think pretty much every production
slalom racing sail made in 1990 used some variation on the theme.
-Dan
> > > What year did the manufacturers start moving back the mast track. Was
> > > Starboard the first?
by cosmicharli » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:50:57
> Here is the history lesson for today: Bruce Peterson, along with Dave
> Russell, is credited with developing the first mass produced loose
> leach design in 1988/98 under the Rushwind brand. He also developed
> the Gaastra version of that sail called the Gorge Slalom LE or
> something like that. I had several of the Gaastra versions and they
> were a huge improvement over the same year's Gaastra Racefoil. Very
> stable in the gusts and stupid fast. I wouldn't be suprised if he was
> not the first to think about using a pretwisted leech as a way to
> control leech tension when underway, nor would it suprise me of other
> sailmakers had made prototypes.
> Loose leech sails were not slow to be adopted! Every sail brand
> followed suit more or less with a year. The very next year, NP had
> the Slalom Pro Mk1, Gaastra's Racefoil had a loose leech, Windwing's
> Race also used a loose leech. I think pretty much every production
> slalom racing sail made in 1990 used some variation on the theme.
> -Dan
> > Which came first the chicken or the egg? Actually, I think the boards
> > changed to fit better with the loose leech technology in sails. The
> > luff sleeves also became tighter so mast diameters shrank, didn't they?
> > I think, though, that the mast tracks were brought back in the early
> > 90's I used to own a glass board from the late 80's. When I compared
> > it to three boards I have from around '93-'96, the track was seriously
> > set forward. However, the back position on the old board did line up
> > with the forward on the early '90's boards as I remember. Since long
> > adjustable mast tracks were introduced and popular in that era, they
> > could accomodate both old and new sails. You may want to find out when
> > the first loose leech was developed and who was responsible. This
> > innovation was slow to be adapted by all sailmakers so there's an
> > overlap in dates. The mini-batten didn't become common until after the
> > loose leech had been in regular use. It's rather easy to pick out the
> > mini-battens to identify a sail cut for a lot of downhaul. However,
> > you can't put a lot of downhaul in many sails that don't have the
> > mini's and optain a loose leech. Some you can. I met a guy one the
> > beach once who had been sold a downhaul crank so that he could loosen a
> > leech on sails that didn't have the feature as part of their design.
> > Duh?
> > > Hi Peter,
> > > I'm not positive, but my educated guess would be right around
> > > 1998-1999.
> > > That's when the first shorter, but wider at the back, race slalom
> > > boards arrived (Starboard W75 flapper board was a good example but
> > > there were some other custom race boards that Ken Winner and Eric
> > > Voight designed) .
> > > Around 1999-2000 the width started moving back on a lot of production
> > > boards, but I'm not sure that Starboard was first to do this.
> > > Previously (around 1992-1995) we had the "no nose" era and the mast
> > > slots seemed to move a little to the back, but not as far as the modern
> > > 2000 and later boards.
> > > Mast slot position moved back more quickly with the introduction of the
> > > Starboard Formula 155 (1999-2000) as the width and volume suddenly was
> > > well behind the mast foot.
> > > As mast track position in boards changed sails began to change as well
> > > to suit the newer design boards.
> > > What board do you have, and what are you thinking of replacing it with?
> > > Starboard was amoung the first to introduce shorter wider at the back
> > > slalom boards (the early Carve boards) so they were probably amoung the
> > > first to really embrace the width back, new rockerline concepts that
> > > make the shorter slalom boards work.
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > > What year did the manufacturers start moving back the mast track. Was
> > > > Starboard the first?
by Peter » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:35:46
> > Here is the history lesson for today: Bruce Peterson, along with Dave
> > Russell, is credited with developing the first mass produced loose
> > leach design in 1988/98 under the Rushwind brand. He also developed
> > the Gaastra version of that sail called the Gorge Slalom LE or
> > something like that. I had several of the Gaastra versions and they
> > were a huge improvement over the same year's Gaastra Racefoil. Very
> > stable in the gusts and stupid fast. I wouldn't be suprised if he was
> > not the first to think about using a pretwisted leech as a way to
> > control leech tension when underway, nor would it suprise me of other
> > sailmakers had made prototypes.
> > Loose leech sails were not slow to be adopted! Every sail brand
> > followed suit more or less with a year. The very next year, NP had
> > the Slalom Pro Mk1, Gaastra's Racefoil had a loose leech, Windwing's
> > Race also used a loose leech. I think pretty much every production
> > slalom racing sail made in 1990 used some variation on the theme.
> > -Dan
> > > Which came first the chicken or the egg? Actually, I think the boards
> > > changed to fit better with the loose leech technology in sails. The
> > > luff sleeves also became tighter so mast diameters shrank, didn't they?
> > > I think, though, that the mast tracks were brought back in the early
> > > 90's I used to own a glass board from the late 80's. When I compared
> > > it to three boards I have from around '93-'96, the track was seriously
> > > set forward. However, the back position on the old board did line up
> > > with the forward on the early '90's boards as I remember. Since long
> > > adjustable mast tracks were introduced and popular in that era, they
> > > could accomodate both old and new sails. You may want to find out when
> > > the first loose leech was developed and who was responsible. This
> > > innovation was slow to be adapted by all sailmakers so there's an
> > > overlap in dates. The mini-batten didn't become common until after the
> > > loose leech had been in regular use. It's rather easy to pick out the
> > > mini-battens to identify a sail cut for a lot of downhaul. However,
> > > you can't put a lot of downhaul in many sails that don't have the
> > > mini's and optain a loose leech. Some you can. I met a guy one the
> > > beach once who had been sold a downhaul crank so that he could loosen a
> > > leech on sails that didn't have the feature as part of their design.
> > > Duh?
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I'm not positive, but my educated guess would be right around
> > > > 1998-1999.
> > > > That's when the first shorter, but wider at the back, race slalom
> > > > boards arrived (Starboard W75 flapper board was a good example but
> > > > there were some other custom race boards that Ken Winner and Eric
> > > > Voight designed) .
> > > > Around 1999-2000 the width started moving back on a lot of production
> > > > boards, but I'm not sure that Starboard was first to do this.
> > > > Previously (around 1992-1995) we had the "no nose" era and the mast
> > > > slots seemed to move a little to the back, but not as far as the modern
> > > > 2000 and later boards.
> > > > Mast slot position moved back more quickly with the introduction of the
> > > > Starboard Formula 155 (1999-2000) as the width and volume suddenly was
> > > > well behind the mast foot.
> > > > As mast track position in boards changed sails began to change as well
> > > > to suit the newer design boards.
> > > > What board do you have, and what are you thinking of replacing it with?
> > > > Starboard was amoung the first to introduce shorter wider at the back
> > > > slalom boards (the early Carve boards) so they were probably amoung the
> > > > first to really embrace the width back, new rockerline concepts that
> > > > make the shorter slalom boards work.
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > > What year did the manufacturers start moving back the mast track. Was
> > > > > Starboard the first?
by Dan Weis » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:46:31
I'm not sure what you are referring to in that other thread. Look, I
hold no grudge against you, and acknowldge the crass tone in my post.
I made it so because you state as fact things that are not fact in an
attempt to prove a point or support your conclusions, and I called you
on it. And by the way, I still haven't received that e-mail you
claimed you sent to me. That I happen to retain totally random
factoids about windsurfing has much to do to my longtime affection with
the sport and my enjoyment of some of the amazing people who do it
better then me. I'm not here to toot my own horn, but I think you show
a disregard for others by many of your posts such as your post about
the history of windsurfing. I hope we can meet on the water one day
and perhaps even enjoy each other's company as fellow windsurfers.
-Dan
> > Here is the history lesson for today: Bruce Peterson, along with Dave
> > Russell, is credited with developing the first mass produced loose
> > leach design in 1988/98 under the Rushwind brand. He also developed
> > the Gaastra version of that sail called the Gorge Slalom LE or
> > something like that. I had several of the Gaastra versions and they
> > were a huge improvement over the same year's Gaastra Racefoil. Very
> > stable in the gusts and stupid fast. I wouldn't be suprised if he was
> > not the first to think about using a pretwisted leech as a way to
> > control leech tension when underway, nor would it suprise me of other
> > sailmakers had made prototypes.
> > Loose leech sails were not slow to be adopted! Every sail brand
> > followed suit more or less with a year. The very next year, NP had
> > the Slalom Pro Mk1, Gaastra's Racefoil had a loose leech, Windwing's
> > Race also used a loose leech. I think pretty much every production
> > slalom racing sail made in 1990 used some variation on the theme.
> > -Dan
> > > Which came first the chicken or the egg? Actually, I think the boards
> > > changed to fit better with the loose leech technology in sails. The
> > > luff sleeves also became tighter so mast diameters shrank, didn't they?
> > > I think, though, that the mast tracks were brought back in the early
> > > 90's I used to own a glass board from the late 80's. When I compared
> > > it to three boards I have from around '93-'96, the track was seriously
> > > set forward. However, the back position on the old board did line up
> > > with the forward on the early '90's boards as I remember. Since long
> > > adjustable mast tracks were introduced and popular in that era, they
> > > could accomodate both old and new sails. You may want to find out when
> > > the first loose leech was developed and who was responsible. This
> > > innovation was slow to be adapted by all sailmakers so there's an
> > > overlap in dates. The mini-batten didn't become common until after the
> > > loose leech had been in regular use. It's rather easy to pick out the
> > > mini-battens to identify a sail cut for a lot of downhaul. However,
> > > you can't put a lot of downhaul in many sails that don't have the
> > > mini's and optain a loose leech. Some you can. I met a guy one the
> > > beach once who had been sold a downhaul crank so that he could loosen a
> > > leech on sails that didn't have the feature as part of their design.
> > > Duh?
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I'm not positive, but my educated guess would be right around
> > > > 1998-1999.
> > > > That's when the first shorter, but wider at the back, race slalom
> > > > boards arrived (Starboard W75 flapper board was a good example but
> > > > there were some other custom race boards that Ken Winner and Eric
> > > > Voight designed) .
> > > > Around 1999-2000 the width started moving back on a lot of production
> > > > boards, but I'm not sure that Starboard was first to do this.
> > > > Previously (around 1992-1995) we had the "no nose" era and the mast
> > > > slots seemed to move a little to the back, but not as far as the modern
> > > > 2000 and later boards.
> > > > Mast slot position moved back more quickly with the introduction of the
> > > > Starboard Formula 155 (1999-2000) as the width and volume suddenly was
> > > > well behind the mast foot.
> > > > As mast track position in boards changed sails began to change as well
> > > > to suit the newer design boards.
> > > > What board do you have, and what are you thinking of replacing it with?
> > > > Starboard was amoung the first to introduce shorter wider at the back
> > > > slalom boards (the early Carve boards) so they were probably amoung the
> > > > first to really embrace the width back, new rockerline concepts that
> > > > make the shorter slalom boards work.
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > > What year did the manufacturers start moving back the mast track. Was
> > > > > Starboard the first?
by Steven Sla » Thu, 05 Oct 2006 06:52:25
Steve.
by M. Gun » Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:03:38
> In case you didn't see the original question he started off on the wrong
> foot with an implied insult to all for the first question and it just went
> downhill from there (like usual).
:)
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
by Steven Sla » Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:08:06
Do you really not see why are draw all the negative reaction to your posts
by starting off in such a negative, insulting way?
Do you know what you need to do to avoid getting so angry and drawing so
much negative attention?
Article 503677 of rec.windsurfing:
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Anti-twist devices
Date: 27 Sep 2006 04:49:08 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
There are three different footstrap twist control systems I have found,
Mistral, Dakine and Epic Gear. Can anyone comment intelligently on
these devices and how they compare?
by oneup.ag.. » Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:26:30
Brucie, when I look up "insult" in the dictionary, I find you picture.
Why is that?
> > Here is the history lesson for today: Bruce Peterson, along with Dave
> > Russell, is credited with developing the first mass produced loose
> > leach design in 1988/98 under the Rushwind brand. He also developed
> > the Gaastra version of that sail called the Gorge Slalom LE or
> > something like that. I had several of the Gaastra versions and they
> > were a huge improvement over the same year's Gaastra Racefoil. Very
> > stable in the gusts and stupid fast. I wouldn't be suprised if he was
> > not the first to think about using a pretwisted leech as a way to
> > control leech tension when underway, nor would it suprise me of other
> > sailmakers had made prototypes.
> > Loose leech sails were not slow to be adopted! Every sail brand
> > followed suit more or less with a year. The very next year, NP had
> > the Slalom Pro Mk1, Gaastra's Racefoil had a loose leech, Windwing's
> > Race also used a loose leech. I think pretty much every production
> > slalom racing sail made in 1990 used some variation on the theme.
> > -Dan
> > > Which came first the chicken or the egg? Actually, I think the boards
> > > changed to fit better with the loose leech technology in sails. The
> > > luff sleeves also became tighter so mast diameters shrank, didn't they?
> > > I think, though, that the mast tracks were brought back in the early
> > > 90's I used to own a glass board from the late 80's. When I compared
> > > it to three boards I have from around '93-'96, the track was seriously
> > > set forward. However, the back position on the old board did line up
> > > with the forward on the early '90's boards as I remember. Since long
> > > adjustable mast tracks were introduced and popular in that era, they
> > > could accomodate both old and new sails. You may want to find out when
> > > the first loose leech was developed and who was responsible. This
> > > innovation was slow to be adapted by all sailmakers so there's an
> > > overlap in dates. The mini-batten didn't become common until after the
> > > loose leech had been in regular use. It's rather easy to pick out the
> > > mini-battens to identify a sail cut for a lot of downhaul. However,
> > > you can't put a lot of downhaul in many sails that don't have the
> > > mini's and optain a loose leech. Some you can. I met a guy one the
> > > beach once who had been sold a downhaul crank so that he could loosen a
> > > leech on sails that didn't have the feature as part of their design.
> > > Duh?
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I'm not positive, but my educated guess would be right around
> > > > 1998-1999.
> > > > That's when the first shorter, but wider at the back, race slalom
> > > > boards arrived (Starboard W75 flapper board was a good example but
> > > > there were some other custom race boards that Ken Winner and Eric
> > > > Voight designed) .
> > > > Around 1999-2000 the width started moving back on a lot of production
> > > > boards, but I'm not sure that Starboard was first to do this.
> > > > Previously (around 1992-1995) we had the "no nose" era and the mast
> > > > slots seemed to move a little to the back, but not as far as the modern
> > > > 2000 and later boards.
> > > > Mast slot position moved back more quickly with the introduction of the
> > > > Starboard Formula 155 (1999-2000) as the width and volume suddenly was
> > > > well behind the mast foot.
> > > > As mast track position in boards changed sails began to change as well
> > > > to suit the newer design boards.
> > > > What board do you have, and what are you thinking of replacing it with?
> > > > Starboard was amoung the first to introduce shorter wider at the back
> > > > slalom boards (the early Carve boards) so they were probably amoung the
> > > > first to really embrace the width back, new rockerline concepts that
> > > > make the shorter slalom boards work.
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > > What year did the manufacturers start moving back the mast track. Was
> > > > > Starboard the first?
by Erik » Mon, 09 Oct 2006 08:39:26
I have a 2005 NP 6.5 V6 that I use with a 1996-7ish? Finatic Ultra
Gecko ClassX 105L X 59cm and a 1998-9ish? Mistral Flow Concept 115L X
59cm wide boards. I should start pretty far back in the track for both
of these boards? I also use this sail with a 2002 JP 130L Freeride;
should I figure out the distance from the tail (maybe 130-135) that I
use the sail on this board and just mimick that distance, regardless of
"far back or forward in the track" on the older boards?
I also use the Finatic 105 and Mistral 115 with an older(1997) 5.8
Ezzy. Since that sail is older, with further back COE?, but smaller,
will it end up in about the same place as the modern 6.5?
I do hope I get some answers or thoughts, from anyone, and not get
pulled down into some fray that is going to suck up my prescious time,
that I'd rather waste on windsurfing. I must say however that some of
it is rather entertaining and fun to read when I should be working.
by NC/M » Mon, 09 Oct 2006 10:45:12
> I have a 2005 NP 6.5 V6 that I use with a 1996-7ish? Finatic Ultra
> Gecko ClassX 105L X 59cm and a 1998-9ish? Mistral Flow Concept 115L X
> 59cm wide boards. I should start pretty far back in the track for both
> of these boards? I also use this sail with a 2002 JP 130L Freeride;
> should I figure out the distance from the tail (maybe 130-135) that I
> use the sail on this board and just mimick that distance, regardless of
> "far back or forward in the track" on the older boards?
> I also use the Finatic 105 and Mistral 115 with an older(1997) 5.8
> Ezzy. Since that sail is older, with further back COE?, but smaller,
> will it end up in about the same place as the modern 6.5?
> I do hope I get some answers or thoughts, from anyone, and not get
> pulled down into some fray that is going to suck up my prescious time,
> that I'd rather waste on windsurfing. I must say however that some of
> it is rather entertaining and fun to read when I should be working.
by M. Gun » Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:18:05
;)
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net