Sport Today

Question to the Net...
I'm a beginning windsurfer with a 12' beginner's board.  I've
become pretty comfortable with it and am looking for my next
board purchase to learn more advanced skills, such as waterstarts,
high wind proficiency, etc.  Some friends have suggested boards
as short as 9'4", and as long as 10'6" (usually *their* old boards ;-)

Your opinions as to the next step would be appreciated.  I'm sorta
leaning towards a medium length (10'-11'), with a retractable
daggerboard.  Sail rig opinions would also be appreciated.  Some
people say that a short board would be too frustrating, while others
claim that a transition board would be quickly outgrown.  My eventual
goal is to join ranks with the guys out at 3rd Ave, SF Bay but now
I'm at Alameda, with nice on-shore winds, and warm water.

                         Thanks in advance,

                         Harry Shin

   i would go for the short board option. get something around 9'8" and
floaty and resign yourself to spending some time paying your learning
to waterstart dues. forget the daggerboard. you can still uphaul if you
really need to, but once you learn to waterstart you will be much happier
with this than a transition board. and if learning to waterstart is your
next objective.......
:wq

 I think I told you that you would quickly tire of the transition board.
Well, Three weeks ago my wife learned to waterstart on our Tiga 10"6'.
She has since sailed 2 times.
She's DONE!  
She was out riding some serious chop at Sterling Suites
on Sunday.  Now we need a short board for her, or else I'll
never get to use mine again.

Anyone have a cheap (<$200) ~9'  board for sale to get us through
the season?  We don't know where we'll be next year, so we have to
watch the investments.

Thread to come:
This may be of interest for those who still haven't settled down.

Where else in the country is there decent windsurfing besides SF
and the Gorge. No offense to those of you in places with good wind,
I just don't know.  We're primarily considering the Western states
and prefer an area with affordable housing.  

  - New Mexico has some strong possibilities jobwise and
close to "home".  Anybody ever hear of any boardsailing there?

Happy Sails, Sales, and Swells,
Andy

I had a Tiga 280 (9'2") and a F2 strato (t-board) when I was learning to
sail. I used to switch back and forth as I tried to learn waterstarting
and jibing. Any progress I made seemed to come on the Tiga. Sailing a
long board in the chop of San Franciso Bay was a fairly miserable
experience. The Tiga was easier to sail on a reach, easier to start,
and easier to jibe, and alot less effort to deal with when "swimming".

People start with big boards because they are very stable (in light
wind... try 11' in big chop!), however, the big stumbling block in
learning to sail is reguarding the board as the point of balance;
it's not, it's the center of effort in the sail, and a short board
will get you out of this bad habit and "teach you" correct dynamics
immediately.

A friend of mine started this year on a 9'8" board and quickly moved to
9' and less. He is waterstarting and sails on the ocean but can not jibe yet.
He is 48 years old and started in May.

I'd say that if you are using a harness, you should go short, especially if
you want to sail 3rd Ave and Coyote.

A real cheap way to get into it would be to buy my old Seatrend 9'1" slalom
board. It's not as fast or light as a new $1000 board, but you'll save
megabucks and can figure out what you really want when you can tell the difference.

If you are not using a harness yet, I'd say either get a transition board (more
bucks), or wait.

My bottom line advice is that if your goal is sailing short boards in high wind
conditions, then get a short board and start sailing at 'safe' high wind locations
such as San Luis Reservoir or Coyote Pt (don't go too far out).

Jim Munro

Seatrend for sale  $250 ONO

408-473-2497

This has been a difficult question for many. You will find that regular
(and experienced sailors) will recommend the board without centerboard
option. It really depends on YOU. How often you expect to sail, how much
spare time (for sailing) you have, your location including wind etc.

If you want to enjoy planning and jibing, jumping and the rest of it
at winds >15knots, I recommend as above (Nancy).

Not being a long board sailor, I would also recommend what Nancy says.

Go for it.....

--
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Australian Graduate School of Management,       Tel: 61 2 931 9263
P.O. Box 1, Kensington. N.S.W. 2033.            Fax: 61 2 662 7621

For those of you who have been reading this thread and don't have unlimited
wind, I would vote for the transition board.  I have a course board, a
transition board, and a grand slalom (9' 4"?).  The course board gets used
about 40 times per year, the transition board about 25 times and the giant   h
slalom about 6 times.  I can use up to a 7.4 on the transition board, and in
slightly choppy inland water conditions, it is quite a bit easier to handle
than the course board (if there is enough wind to power up a 7.4 or smaller).

Now, if I had regular access to winds of 20 mph or better, I might be able
to do without a transition board.  But not everyone has that luxary.

Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans          Those who can, teach;
                                     those who can't, don't;

I agree, but with some reservations. I learned to waterstart on a longboard
and then switched to a shortboard. I found the shortboard a lot more
unstable when waterstarting (no surprise there). But this was more
than compensated for by the relative ease with which I could manipulate
the shortboard into position for waterstarting. Lining up the longboard
was a real drag.

David

My recommendation is to go to a giant slalom (9'9" or so, with 130 to 135L
volume).  This amount of floation is plenty to uphaul and sail in low
winds, but can be used in much higher winds (all the way to 4.0 conditions
on small bodies of water where the waves remain very small).  Furthermore,
giant slaloms can be used with very large sails (I use a 7.0 often [oh,
too often]) with mine.  Finally, having sailed with this board for 1 year,
I never using the transition board (10'6", 173L) that I purchased 2 years
ago.  I suspect that I could have gone directly to this board without
the other one.
PJ

  Having had a lot of experience on a longboard and a transition board,
I'd like to put in a good word for transition boards.  I've thoroughly
enjoyed my Bic Samba (10'6", 33 lbs, 170 ltrs) for a couple of years now.
I can sail comfortably in anywhere from 0 to 25 mph of wind, and have
survived gusts to 30 with my 4.4 sail on it.  Although I'm not quite as
fast as a lot of the shortboarders when it's blowing, I can pass a few of
them, especially if it's in the "marginal" wind range of 15-20 mph.
   One very nice thing about this kind of board is the daggerboard.  If it's
blowing less than 20, it's generally OK to put it down to get upwind.  With
the dagger even partway down, I can make upwind progress at an incredible
rate, and if I hook in to do so, it's almost effortless.  Of course, the
board is generally a lot more fun with the dagger fully retracted and
covered by the *** gasket.
   However, if you want to tear some really nice jibes, you should probably
go with a slalom/giant slalom - I think my Samba is a good part of the
reason I can't jibe :-).  But if the wind where you are rarely gets
above 20-25 mph, and is more frequently in the 10-15 range (like it is
here in Austin) :-(, you might find a transition board more appropriate.
                                      --Donny
                                      A Fellow Wind-starved Windsurfer
DISCLAIMER:
  National Instruments pays me to program, not post.
--
"Engineers think that equations are an approximation of reality."
"Physicists think that reality is an approximation of the equations."
"Mathmeticians never make the connection."

This year I just made this same decision - I was all ready to go out and buy a
transition board but found a used Randy French 9'5" Seatrend (125l) at a good price
and made the economical choice.

For the conditions I sail in, and my weight (180), I find that this is not quite
enough board in that I don't get enough wind to sail it most of the time. 95%
of my time on this board is in 13-20kt winds which for me means a 7.5, which is
just a little too big for this board (given the mast track and footstrap position).
And most of our days here have wind which is really marginal (5-12kts) which means
I still spend most of my time on the big board.

If your weight is similar to mine I would suggest something that is a little
longer and floatier (just a _little_ bit) such as the previous poster suggested.
Seatrend has big floaty giant slalom board something like 9'9" and 150l which I'd
be taking a good look at if I was buying a new board for 'marginally planing'
conditions.

I strongly recommend you do get something under 10' and under 160l or so, since with the
bigger boards you just don't learn enough about board dynamics. I am 1000% better sailor
on my big board now, even though I could do longboard jibes and all that before, mainly
because I am now vastly more sensitive to where I am putting my weight on the board, and
what attitude I am putting the board in.

Since your situation sounds so similar to mine, you might also be interested in knowing
that now that I'm sailing the 125l Seatrend I'm dying to get my hands on a race board
(e.g. Fanatic Ultra Cat or Mega Cat) so that I can junk the beginner longboard. If your
conditions are like mine, you will find after sailing the shortboard that you really
want a little less sluggish longboard for the marginal days (you can move ok with
a 10kt wind, raceboard, and a 9.0)! So if anyone has a used Fanatic Cat for sale (Ultra
or Mega) for next season (and you're located in the East, North of NYC or are in Eastern
Canada), let me know and maybe I'll buy it from ya.

Generally, I recommend aiming for a "2 board strategy" and planning it so you
don't have a garage full of underutilized equipment. In this thread, the
original posters headers were stripped off, so I can't tell where you are
posting from, so I'll make some guesses.

If you live in a place where there are normally planing conditions, such as
the SF Bay Area, then I recommend a 2 board strategy: a floating board, and
a high wind board. Go for the floating board first and skip the transition
board, because it will just sit in your garage.

If you can get a transition board to plan, then you can get a floating
shortboard board to plan, and probably go faster to boot.

If you have enough wind to plane regularly, it's really important to fit
the board to your body weight. Notice I didn't say "giant slalom" board:
I said "floating" board. The first shortboard you get should be "floating
board", so you can uphaul it etc. Also, it should be a just floating board:
don't get a larger board than will just float you on the theory that more
is better, because it isn't. As you get into higher winds, you will find that
excessively floaty board will cause massive control problems, without giving
you that much extra performance at the lighter winds.

For the standard 5'10" 150lb male, a 9'0" to 9'2" slalom board with about
100liters volume would be about right. For me, at 200lbs, that is a sinker,
and I need a 9'4" board at about 125liters to float me. For a lighter person,
such as my girlfriend, at about 120lbs, the 9'2" slalom board she got at first
was a real monster: it floated her alright, but it beat her to a pulp in any
kind of chop, and it was so floaty she could get any feel for the board
dynamics. She is much happier on her 8'6" ASD.

So, go try 'em out: borrow your buddies board, or demo a few to get the
feel. If you live in the SF Bay area, check out Spinnaker sailing for the
demos. I don't necessarily recommend that you *BUY* from them, but they have
the demo boards right on the shore, so if you don't like one, you can just
switch boards till you find one that sinks, then move to the next size bigger.

A note on giant slalom boards: the industry tends to design things for the
standard 5'10" 150lb male making $50k/year. If you don't fit into that
category, be careful. Many giant slalom boards are designed for the first time
shortboarder and oftentimes, performance is ignored in favor of such things as
"stability", i.e. lack of responsiveness. The manufacturer assumes that, like
the transition board, you will "outgrow" it. If you are heavier, and are looking
for a performance light air board, carefully avoid these models.

On the flip side of that, some of the "giant" giant slalom boards, such as
the 9'9" 150l Seatrend, are designed not for lighter winds, but for people
who put a little too much overtime at the dinner table over the winter
(we know who we are :-)). These boards are more heavily reinforced, have
footstraps farthur apart for larger people, etc. So be careful on that end too.
These *CAN* be good, but make sure they fit *YOU*. For the medium size person
(~150lbs), I don't think a 9'9" board gives you much over a floaty 9'0-9'2".

Good luck and have fun !!

Jaime

[Stuff, including some headers deleted.}
[More stuff removed]

        Aha! some info that I can use.  It's nice to see some makers realize
that there are people over 6' tall.  

        Maybe there's something wrong with my poster.  I sent a request for
any info/lore concerning just this board out last week.  No response - maybe
no one has used one?

        Also, I'd like to know if anyone's used/owns an F2 Vega.  It's about
the same size as the big Seatrend but slightly less volume (135 L).  From
the pictures I've seen it appears to have a very similar outline to the
Sputnik 280.  But, I'd like to know if it really is much of a light wind
performance board or better left as a beginner/first short board.

Tim
--
Tim Costello
Du Pont Merck Pharmaceutical