Sport Today

> Jim, of course I'll try a different channel first.  My point was simply
> that if you do have to resort to 16 to do a radio check, it's
> incredibly unlikely that you're going to be interfering with anything.

> I just think it's really important to make sure this stuff works, and
> if that requires me bending the law for 5 seconds then I'm not too
> worried about it.

> I'll let you guys know if I was able to get someone on one of the other
> channels.

> BTW, Jim, you seem to be alluding to the fact that I'm somehow being
> rude (you say Wardog was very polite, so I guess this means I wasn't?).
> If I was rude in any way, I apologize.  I thought we were just shooting
> the breeze here discussing VHF use.  Not trying to***anyone off or
> anything.

>> Paul,
>> Why not just do as you are asked. The people who came up with the rules
>> for Channel 16 must have had their reasons for doing what they do. They
>> certainly gave it a lot more thought and research than one individual
>> can. Aviation has a large number of rules regarding the use of various
>> radio frequencies and, believe me, there is nothing in the world more
>> frustrating than trying to use one while two idiots are already sitting
>> on it discussing last Saturday's BBQ.  WARDOG has a point and made it in
>> a very polite manner.

>> There is also this to consider. While you are using 16, however briefly,
>> you may block a transmission from someone that is in a life-critical
>> situation.  I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that.

>> Just a few thoughts................
>> Jim

>>> If you get a response on 68 or 9, fine.  However, since 16 is used for
>>> hailing, my experience is that that's where you are most likely to get
>>> someone to talk to you. On weekdays in SF bay 16 is a ghost town.
>>> (Everyone uses cellphones these days).

>>> The analogy to 911 is a terrible one.  There are always calls coming in
>>> to 911, and each call has to be routed to a person.

>>> 16 is for hailing.  If it makes you feel any better, hail on 16 and ask
>>> to do a radio check on 68.  This is downright stupid, because by then
>>> you've already done your radio check.

>>> Good luck getting a reply on anything other than 16.  If someone is on
>>> another channel they are already talking to someone, or working, and
>>> they don't want to be bothered by your radio check.

>>> There are a lot of rules regarding VHF use.  Most of them are designed
>>> to prevent abuse.  If you are reasonable and considerate, there usually
>>> is no problem.  Heck, there usually is no problem if you are drunk, a
>>> total A-hole, and everyone is yelling at you and your redneck fishing
>>> buddy to get off of 16.

>>> BTW, I bought that really small Uniden (smallest VHF made), and one
>>> really nice feature is that when you turn it on it goes automatically
>>> to 16 and 5w setting.  In other words, if you are using it for
>>> emergencies, all you have to do is turn it on and press the talk
>>> button.  It also has a battery indicator, so you can make sure it's
>>> fully charged before sailing.  I'll be testing it soon, with a radio
>>> check, and if I have to use channel 16, please don't sick the coasties
>>> on me, ok? ;-)  Thanks.

>>>> I have to agree with WD. Seems pretty damn silly to use 16 when you can
>>>> just as easily use 9. If you dont get a response on 16 does that mean
>>>> you are SOL or does that mean people are following the rules? If you
>>>> dont get a response on 9, and really really really need to know, maybe
>>>> consider 16.

>>>> I've called 911 a few times, and about HALF of those times I've gotten
>>>> busy signals. I say only 25% of the time (I've made probably 20 calls) I
>>>> go straight through to the dispatcher. I keep the LOCAL number in my
>>>> cell phone and the same thing occurs when I call this number (911 from a
>>>> cell phone connects you to the state highway patrol dispatch then they
>>>> connect you to your local dispatch)... the 911 system is indeed burdened.

>>>> Brad

>>>>>> In the real world, you can use 16 to do a readio check no problem.
>>>>> Whatever...I'm not a cop and you are free to do what you want...but,
>>>>> in  the *real* world, the USCG regs specifically state EXACTLY as I
>>>>> have posted:

>>>>> b) NO RADIO CHECKS ON CHANNEL 16

>>>>> A Federal Communications Commission ruling prohibits boaters from
>>>>> using  Channel 16 for non-emergency radio checks. Do not ask for or
>>>>> respond to  a radio check on channel 16.

>>>>> UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW THESE PROCEDURES AT ALL TIMES

>>>>> 1. Use Channel 16 for Distress and Hailing only.

>>>>> 2. Keep all calling on Channel 16 to an absolute minimum.

>>>>> 3. It is illegal to use Channel 16 for Radio Checks.

>>>>> http://SportToday.org/

>>>>> This is cut & pasted directly from the regs...the caps are not mine...
>>>>> It's not that hard to use Channel 9 or 68 for radio checks...

>>>>> The analogy is non-emergency calls on 911...it is also illegal to dial
>>>>> 9-1-1 when there is no emergency...are you gonna tell everyone it's OK
>>>>> to call 9-1-1 to "test" their phone?...same thing...

>>>>> http://SportToday.org/

>>>>> "Feb. 10, 2006 ? Every minute of every day, 380 people call 911.
>>>>> That's  a staggering 200 million calls a year.

>>>>> But now the nation's lifeline has a problem. In a surprising number of
>>>>> emergency calls, there's no emergency."

>>>>> WARDOG
>>>>> http://SportToday.org/

>>>>>> These days there is very little traffic on 16, so just don't do it
>>>>>> when there is something going on.  A radio check should take about 3
>>>>>> seconds, so it's really not that big a deal.

>>>>>> "This is windsurfer at loation doing Radio Check to Any Vessel".

>>>>>> "This is vessel xyz at location, receiveing you loud and clear"

>>>>>> "Thank you, windsurfer out".

>>>>>> No one is going to know who you are anyway, nor care.

>>>>>> If you want to obey the letter of the law, hail any vessel for a
>>>>>> radio check on channel 16, then switch to another channel to do the
>>>>>> actual radio check.  However, since the check only takes 2 seconds,


>>>>>>> Thanks for the info WD, I changed the subject a bit so I, and others,
>>>>>>> can find it on google easier

>>>>>>> Brad

>>>>>>>> Use Channel 9 or 68 for radio checks...
>>>>>>>> See 2b. below...

>>>>>>>>> Before I put it

>>>>>>>>>> on, I turn it on to make sure it works and it is set to 16 or 9 (
>>>>>>>>>> emergency channels, even though there is 'quick ch16 button') and
>>>>>>>>>> then  turn it back off. I've been tempted to 'test it' out on the
>>>>>>>>>> water to see  if I could hail the coast guard, but not sure they
>>>>>>>>>> would appreciate my  chatter (anyone know if this is OK? or if
>>>>>>>>>> there  is like a standard  callout that the coast guard will
>>>>>>>>>> respond to if  they arent busy?).
>>>>>>>> http://SportToday.org/

>>>>>>>> 2) CHANNEL 16 (156.8 MHz) This is the international VHF-FM
>>>>>>>> radiotelephone distress, safety and calling frequency used for
>>>>>>>> distress  and urgent traffic, safety signals, marine information
>>>>>>>> broadcasts, and  general calling and reply. After the preliminary
>>>>>>>> call  to establish  communications, mariners should shift as soon as
>>>>>>>> possible to an  appropriate working frequency. In order to
>>>>>>>> facilitate  the reception of  distress traffic, all transmissions
>>>>>>>> should be kept  to an absolute  minimum and must not exceed one
>>>>>>>> minute.  a) Channel 16 Call-Up Procedure  1) Call up the vessel you
>>>>>>>> are attempting to contact using the vessel's  name. The name is
>>>>>>>> spoken twice. 2) Next, send the name of your vessel and call sign
>>>>>>>> spoken twice  prefaced by the phrase: this is. 3) End the call-up by
>>>>>>>> saying, "channel 16, over." 4) When the vessel being called answers,
>>>>>>>> shift to an agreed upon  channel.  b) NO RADIO CHECKS ON CHANNEL 16

>>>>>>>> A Federal Communications Commission ruling prohibits boaters from
>>>>>>>> using  Channel 16 for non-emergency radio checks. Do not ask for or
>>>>>>>> respond to  a radio check on channel 16.

>>>>>>>> UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW THESE PROCEDURES AT ALL TIMES

>>>>>>>> 1. Use Channel 16 for Distress and Hailing only.

>>>>>>>> 2. Keep all calling on Channel 16 to an absolute minimum.

>>>>>>>> 3. It is illegal to use Channel 16 for Radio Checks.

>>>>>>>> 4. LISTEN before transmitting--don't interfere with other stations'
>>>>>>>> calls.

>>>>>>>> 5. Don't call Marine Operators on Channel 16. Use working channels.

>>>>>>>> 6. Children should be taught how to operate a radio in case of
>>>>>>>> emergency.

>>>>>>>> 7. Children should also be taught that a RADIO IS NOT A TOY!

>>>>>>>> 8. Use LOW POWER as often as possible.

>>>>>>>> 9. NO unnecessary communications are permitted on VHF.

>>>>>>>> 10. Never use a Telephone Credit Card on your VHF-- others can hear

> Jeeze Paul,
> It's not like I feel a great desire to have them hack into my body.  Once
> complete it's never as good
> as the OEM before the destruction took place.

> Basically it works like this,  you***something up large and you know it.
> You see a physician
> who sends you through several rounds of tests and different therapies, when
> none of that works their response is
> stop doing that sport/activity, its dangerous.  Of course, since the damage
> is already done, and you're
> thinking you'd like to be able to walk when you're old, you see a
> specialist, and he says something like "well, you might
> have some chance at continued performace sports, if we do a rebuild".
> Sometimes they say, "well you might
> have some chance of walking into your 60s if we do this now".

> So ya pays your money and ya takes your chances, or ya stops that pastime.
> I know people who've gone both
> ways, it's all in how much of an adrenaline junky you are.

> Will it cost me when I'm older, of course it will, but I'm pretty old
> already, and at least I can die happy.
> There are a lot of professional skiers out there that have had 4 or 5 knee
> surgeries.  My one knee rebuild
> is holding up well (knock on wood) after 23 years.  Yes, it's a bit painfull
> now that I'm older, but I wouldn't
> give up 23 years of great bumps skiing to be without that pain now.

> I'm not advocating surgery, in fact, I'd always recommend any other method
> for rehab first , just happy there's
> enough medical science out there to keep me moving.

> -Craig

> message

>> Damn, you guys ever feel that you're overdoing it with that many
>> surgeries under your belt?  Can't be good for you long term...

>>> Ed,  medical science is good, isn't it, I mean it keeps us running long
>>> after
>>> we normally would be.  I've taken 4 trips to the surgeon just to continue
>>> performance sports myself.  If I'd been living in a time when I had to
>>> run down deer to survive, I'd have been dead in my early 20s.

>>> Good luck buddy,  I hope you don't need any, and your recovery is swift
>>> your pain medication strong, and your nurses are young and buxom.

>>> -Craig

>>> [snip]
>>>> Hey Brad - Thanks for the information and offer. They found a full
>>>> thickness tear of the supraspinatus tendon with medial retraction with
>>>> atrophy of the muscle belly. High-riding humerus suggesting the tear is
>>>> chronic and other medical term things I don't understand.

>>>> I'll know more Wednesday when I talk to my surgeon who speaks my lingo.
>>>> I had surgery on my left shoulder back around 1996 for a torn rotor
>>>> cuff so I know somewhat what to expect. Pardon the pun, but my surgeon
>>>> knows me inside and out, five knee surgeries, one shoulder surgery with
>>>> another in the line-up.

>>>> I did have a nice run of about nine years or so going injury free.
>>>> What's going to suck is, it's my right shoulder and I'm right handed.
>>>> Again, thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.

>>>> Ed

> Craig,
> There's another way to look at it. You will 'arrive' at old age with a
> sensitivity for the potential damage. Between now and then you will no
> doubt develop musclature to help 'support' the damaged area/functions. On
> the other hand, many elderly people that never had a problem similar to
> yours suffer greatly when they attempt to do something that they were
> capable of in younger days. One old man (80+) I know royally messed up his
> knee when he started to shovel snow after a  snowfall. According to his
> doctor he just started the 'wrong' way for his age. (It happened in the
> first 5 minutes). The severity was amplified by his greatly reduced
> ability to heal. So he's probably much worse then you will ever be when
> you reach that age.

> Jim

>> Jeeze Paul,
>> It's not like I feel a great desire to have them hack into my body.  Once
>> complete it's never as good
>> as the OEM before the destruction took place.

>> Basically it works like this,  you***something up large and you know
>> it. You see a physician
>> who sends you through several rounds of tests and different therapies,
>> when none of that works their response is
>> stop doing that sport/activity, its dangerous.  Of course, since the
>> damage is already done, and you're
>> thinking you'd like to be able to walk when you're old, you see a
>> specialist, and he says something like "well, you might
>> have some chance at continued performace sports, if we do a rebuild".
>> Sometimes they say, "well you might
>> have some chance of walking into your 60s if we do this now".

>> So ya pays your money and ya takes your chances, or ya stops that
>> pastime. I know people who've gone both
>> ways, it's all in how much of an adrenaline junky you are.

>> Will it cost me when I'm older, of course it will, but I'm pretty old
>> already, and at least I can die happy.
>> There are a lot of professional skiers out there that have had 4 or 5
>> knee surgeries.  My one knee rebuild
>> is holding up well (knock on wood) after 23 years.  Yes, it's a bit
>> painfull now that I'm older, but I wouldn't
>> give up 23 years of great bumps skiing to be without that pain now.

>> I'm not advocating surgery, in fact, I'd always recommend any other
>> method for rehab first , just happy there's
>> enough medical science out there to keep me moving.

>> -Craig

>> in message

>>> Damn, you guys ever feel that you're overdoing it with that many
>>> surgeries under your belt?  Can't be good for you long term...

>>>> Ed,  medical science is good, isn't it, I mean it keeps us running long
>>>> after
>>>> we normally would be.  I've taken 4 trips to the surgeon just to
>>>> continue
>>>> performance sports myself.  If I'd been living in a time when I had to
>>>> run down deer to survive, I'd have been dead in my early 20s.

>>>> Good luck buddy,  I hope you don't need any, and your recovery is swift
>>>> your pain medication strong, and your nurses are young and buxom.

>>>> -Craig

>>>> [snip]
>>>>> Hey Brad - Thanks for the information and offer. They found a full
>>>>> thickness tear of the supraspinatus tendon with medial retraction with
>>>>> atrophy of the muscle belly. High-riding humerus suggesting the tear
>>>>> is
>>>>> chronic and other medical term things I don't understand.

>>>>> I'll know more Wednesday when I talk to my surgeon who speaks my
>>>>> lingo.
>>>>> I had surgery on my left shoulder back around 1996 for a torn rotor
>>>>> cuff so I know somewhat what to expect. Pardon the pun, but my surgeon
>>>>> knows me inside and out, five knee surgeries, one shoulder surgery
>>>>> with
>>>>> another in the line-up.

>>>>> I did have a nice run of about nine years or so going injury free.
>>>>> What's going to suck is, it's my right shoulder and I'm right handed.
>>>>> Again, thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.

>>>>> Ed

> I've never met Ed (aka Weedfin), in the flesh, but he
> seems like he's got a silimar personality to my own.
> Like most folks here on wreckdot, I hope to meet
> him on the water someday.

> Here's wishing him a speedy recover and good use
> of that shoulder afterword.

> -Craig

> No Paul, didn't think you were being rude.

> Jim

> We just have to keep him off the jetskis. Rumor has it those jet skis are
> terrible on shoulders and joints.

> Alan

> and a jet ski for the non windy days. I just hate sitting around the
> beach all day I'd rather be on the water playing.