Sport Today

First I"d like to thank everyone who responded through news and/or E-mail.

I've decided that 9'0" is the maximum size I can go, given local conditions.
I think the volume of my glass board is around 85-90 liters, so it is pretty
'sinky', so I've decided I don't really need a much bigger board, I just need
a flotier board for those lighter days.

For me the choice now comes down to a BIC Adagio which provides real good
floatation in an 8'9" board, or a Seatrend 9'0".

I beleive the Adagio to be easier to sail, being a rereational slalom design,
with the Seatrend being a dedicated slalom design and very fast. Both
check out at around 107 litres.

The probl;em is I hate the BIC graphics. The all white look of the race boards
is much classier and naturally I just have to look cool on the beach to
compensate for looking very uncool on the water!

My question is:

        How much more difficult will it be to master a full-on slalom or race board.

        The local Stretch boards look pretty good and all the local hot shots have
        them. They are hellishly expensive though.

        In the end, the decision may well come down to price.

        Anyone who wants to sell a 92 BIC Adagio or Setrend 9'0" real cheap
        please let me know.

Jim Munro

Phone them at (402) 330-4923.

PS - I'm NOT affiliated, just a happy customer.

chad price

(402) 489-3084 - home
(402) 559-7936 - work

--
chad

--
  Juri Munkki                                          Windsurf: fast sailing

They are also coming out with an ultra fast slalom board measuring 8'10" with
95 liters of volume. In a couple of weeks I'll know the weight and a bit more
about the '93 stuff.

BIC is definitely getting interested in creating boards for the race oriented
sailor as apposed to just recreational (Yiippee!!). I'm happy because BIC boards
are durable, inexpensive and carry excellent warranties.

Adios!

--

AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"

Personally, what I think Bic needs is a high-wind board that can match
up to the Mistral Ecstasy.  They also need 8'6" and 8'10" boards that jibe
great rather than just being all-out race boards.

The new 8'10 is not going to be an all-around slalom board like the adagio.
Take a look at the shapes on the E-rock compared to the adagio. They are
created for different conditions. One excels over the other in different
situations and conditions.

Even though they are similar in size, you would not compare the sputnik to the
adagio would you? Also, all 12' boards can't be considered "course boards"
right?

--

AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"

What those of us who are recreational sailors would probably rather see
would be boards like the Mistral Ecstacy, Stinger, and Screamer, but at
a Bic price!  To me, *that* would really round out the Bic line.  Bic
does not need another fast board that travels straight like a bullet but
jibes poorly and turns only with a lot of effort.

There are a lot of us, like me, who only have one board that needs to
take them anywhere from 3.5 to 5.5 conditions.  When I was in 4.0
conditions last weekend at Rio Vista going over three foot swell, I
wasn't thinking how can I get maximum speed out of my Adagio.  I was
thinking something more along the lines of how the hell am I going to
survive another 10 seconds in *this*?!  For me, I would rather have an
all-purpose board that goes fast but turns very, very easily through
swell.  

I am a very satisfied Bic customer.  I am simply pointing out that
they should round out their line rather than continue to specialize
around fast slalom boards.  Variety is the spice of life.  

[All our deleted comments are well taken.]

They are slowly trying to create boards that will satisfy the racer. First
real attempt came with the RAP and the Presto. They are now gearing up to
challenge race machines like the F2, Fanatic, and Mistral boards. We will
see more and more boards that go straight and fast with hull weights in the
low ***s (aka World Cup).

On the other hand they will continue to make boards like the adagio, rock and
alto to satisfy the NOT so race oriented sailors. That is why they have two
or three boards with the same length and liter specs. Different handling
boards for different conditions. Either way I'm sure both of us will be
happy with the lineup which is BIC's marketing strategy.

Personally, I own an 8'6 wave/slalom custom (Fox) which I use for my
"recreational" enjoyment. All my other boards ('92 Mega Cat, '93 Fanatic/BIC
whichever catches my interest) are to help me place in those national ranking
regattas (doesn't always happen :-) ).

--

AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"

chad

--
chad

Here, I'll start the discussion (I'm sure some of these are wrong):

        Rails           Boxy(thick) - better upwind ability
                        Thin - better carving ability
        Edges           Sharp - better holding capability
                        Beveled - easier turn initiation
        Bottoms         Concave - faster planing
                        V - greater stability through chop

--
 +-----+ Trevor Hall                     "Frisbeetarianism: the belief
 |    #| Database Engineer                that when you die, your soul
 |     | Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.   goes up on the roof and gets

Second, I think truely high wind boards can't be used in that many
places so it might not be good a good investment of tooling dollars
for BIC.  Also, each true high wind location (say 25 knots and above)
has its own set of conditions which are best addressed by local board
makers.  Add the variable of sailor weight the combinations possible
for high wind gets very large.  For example, my CFlex is very good
for riding swells and waves or sailing fast in (relatively) flat water
like San Luis/O'Neil Forebay at my weight.  At Rio Vista, I find that the
tail is much too wide and I bounce over the waves rather than slice
through them on starboard reaches.  I looked at the boards the guys
doing lots of jumps, fancy jibes and other expert moves
(and a few gals) were using when I was there on a 4.0/3.0 day and they
were Gorge Animals, ASDs and other custom 8'2"'s to 8'6"'s with narrow
tails (there were a few custom ASD epoxy wave boards some of the guys
from ASD were trying out as well).

On the coast, many wave sailors use asymetrics so BIC would have to tool
for two boards with the asymetry on one side for one board and the other
side for the other.........

Kirk out

Hard rails are FASTER since they release water easier (less drag).  Once
you are on a plane, only the bottom shape and the rail design effect
performance (according to ASD).  Having more volume just makes the board
easier to slog for us big people.

Also, from discussions with many that build their own boards plus the
guys at ASD, the amount of flat effects how a board handles.  The optimum
amount of flat is still being determined.

add:    Tail Shape      Wide - quicker to plane, better up wind
                        narrow - faster and easier to handle in high
                                 wind or big chop (which is why I think
                                 the Stinger is such a good Bay Area
                                 Board)

        Nose Rocker     Lots = easier to sail fast off the wind in chop
                        little = faster upwind

        Tail Rocker     Rather than FLat, this is better for waves

        Volume:         Or Volume to Sailor Weight ratio.

        Weight:         >20 lbs durable, good for learning jumps
                         13.75 lbs- a big guy like me can pump w/a 6.1 to a
                         plane in 14 Knots of wind and blow by a 100lb
                         gal (or guy) on a 5.3/Stinger.
                        <12 lbs - Don't jump it!