Windsurfing Mag March '94

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Bob Galv » Mon, 21 Feb 1994 19:36:20


Great posting, Ken.  It's a real pleasure to read such an informed and
thorough response.  I hope you'll make a habit of it!

So are you employed by Windsurfing Magazine now?

Bob Galvan

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Pierre Jolicoe » Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:24:47

Quote:

>Great posting, Ken.  It's a real pleasure to read such an informed and
>thorough response.  I hope you'll make a habit of it!
>So are you employed by Windsurfing Magazine now?


My impression from the postings over the last while is that most
people who commented on the equipment reviews in Windsurfing Mag March '94
were disappointed in the issue and regarded it as a step backwards
relative to '93.

Ken Winner, in an earlier posting, however, stated that WS had done
extensive testing, but chose not to publish these results because of
space limitations in the Journal.

It occurred to me that WS mag might be able to do, on the net, what
they chose not to do in the Journal.  That is, make available all the
results of their testing in a posting to the net, or alternatively,
make these results available by depositing them at an ftp site where
interested readers can get the information.  This would be a very
efficient way to disseminate the results of all these good tests
and measurements.

Perhaps Ken Winner can suggest this to the people at WS and act as
our advocate in this matter.  Ken, would this be possible?

Pierre Jolicoeur

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Chad Price x79 » Thu, 24 Feb 1994 01:24:37

: Ken Winner, in an earlier posting, however, stated that WS had done
: extensive testing, but chose not to publish these results because of
: space limitations in the Journal.

: It occurred to me that WS mag might be able to do, on the net, what
: they chose not to do in the Journal.  That is, make available all the
: results of their testing in a posting to the net, or alternatively,
: make these results available by depositing them at an ftp site where
: interested readers can get the information.  This would be a very
: efficient way to disseminate the results of all these good tests
: and measurements.

: Perhaps Ken Winner can suggest this to the people at WS and act as
: our advocate in this matter.  Ken, would this be possible?

I agree. Great idea Pierre.  Ken?? a reaction?

chad

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Thu, 24 Feb 1994 05:47:15

Quote:
>Thanks to all who have commented on Windsurfing Mag.
>I won't defend everything that's in there, but I can make
>a few comments.

>K Winner

----------

Every year I keep thinking I will cancel, but.....  I think the mag does a
decent job or reaching the avg windsurfer....lake sailor, 160lb male
who thinks solid 20Knots is nuking.

All this commotion on board tests is funny.  After a certain level, It
is more important to sail the board in the conditions yourself than to
see what others think of it.  An inch here (mast placement) and a
quarter inch there (fin selection ) can make all the difference in how a
board behaves and it takes alot of time to figure out just what a sailor
likes for a given board.  Probably getting all the info CORRECT and in one
place is the major value of WSing's equipment reviews so I can take a look
at what is available before testing for myself (and then going for custom!)
8-)

I still have a bit of a grip about your "not necessary to buy American"
for us US sailors.  I will make EVERY EFFORT to buy gear that is at
least designed in the USA if not made in the USA.  I even do this for
autos since it seems fair game for the Japanese and European consumers
to buy local.  Sometimes you have no choice, but I at least think we should
make the effort.  This goes double for supporting shops that make their
own boards for the local conditions and then give exceptional service on
board repairs (ASD is my local shop of choice, though I know Mikes Labs
and John Forsyte make good boards and give good service as well).

Now if I could only get HP to send me to Maui to test some integrated
circuit designs......

Kirk Lindstrom
8'8" ASD epoxy RKT, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy CS, Malibu & 8'8" ChallengeFlex
Will trade Malibu for an Equipe or One Design
Wt 213#, Ht.  6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Craig Goud » Sat, 26 Feb 1994 03:09:20

Hi Felix,

Quote:
>Make an effort is right :-) I need to have in my quiver a course board. Lets
>face it, what US maker (none) has a competitive course board? Also, very few

I think AHD makes a killer course board (it's probably really made in Thailand)
but it was designed here.

Quote:
>(if any) production sails are made in the US. Designed here, yes some, but not
>made here. Certainly the Malibu, challengeflex, equipe, or one design are
>not US made. With all the BS we are getting from the japanese importers in
>japan I certainly would rather buy american. A good portion of the ***we
>buy from overseas, we INVENTED! Sometimes we have little choice.
>--

>AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!hogpa!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
>Holmdel,NJ           {    (908)949-1188   }       and a company sickday!"

Craig

8'10" Bailey jump, 9'9" Sailboards Maui
Wt 155#, Ht 6'3", Usually sail on high desert lakes near SLC in Ut
Go short or go home

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Sat, 26 Feb 1994 03:59:59

............. I expect to see writeups from guys/gals who spent a week
or so in places like Aruba testing the equipment and giving us great
reviews. What I got this time was a spec sheet on the equipment. I can get
that at any local shop. Lets get back to those better days eh?
--

----------

Yeah, consolidated advertising that we paid $12 to get.....8-(
At least I didn't have to suffer the SF traffic to read the mag
compared to going to the Annual WSing Trade Show in SF where you
also get to pay to look over what you can buy....

I think they (WSing mag) are doing the right thing.  Of course the
guys that sail Seatrend are going to think those boards are better
since that is what they are used to sailing day-in-day-out.  Last
few years you't think Seatrend was the way to go....  The present
"list all the major brand gear" is a good service and you can really
only tell which board is fastest in a given condition by sailing it
for yourself - some people are faster with soft rails since they are
more at ease in big chop (me for example) where as if I'm in fairly
reasonable, 20 knot SF Bay conditions then I'm almost as fast as the
racers on my Course Slalom gear (hard rails, flat bottom) that is the
same that they are racing on.

Kirk out
8'8" ASD epoxy RKT, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy CS, Malibu & 8'8" ChallengeFlex
Will trade Malibu for an Equipe or One Design
Wt 213#, Ht.  6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Boris Litins » Wed, 02 Mar 1994 01:33:12

Quote:

>............. I expect to see writeups from guys/gals who spent a week
>or so in places like Aruba testing the equipment and giving us great
>reviews. What I got this time was a spec sheet on the equipment. I can get
>that at any local shop. Lets get back to those better days eh?
>--

>----------

>Yeah, consolidated advertising that we paid $12 to get.....8-(
>At least I didn't have to suffer the SF traffic to read the mag
>compared to going to the Annual WSing Trade Show in SF where you
>also get to pay to look over what you can buy....

>I think they (WSing mag) are doing the right thing.  Of course the
>guys that sail Seatrend are going to think those boards are better
>since that is what they are used to sailing day-in-day-out.  Last
>few years you't think Seatrend was the way to go....  The present
>"list all the major brand gear" is a good service and you can really
>only tell which board is fastest in a given condition by sailing it
>for yourself - some people are faster with soft rails since they are
>more at ease in big chop (me for example) where as if I'm in fairly
>reasonable, 20 knot SF Bay conditions then I'm almost as fast as the
>racers on my Course Slalom gear (hard rails, flat bottom) that is the
>same that they are racing on.

>Kirk out
>8'8" ASD epoxy RKT, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy CS, Malibu & 8'8" ChallengeFlex
>Will trade Malibu for an Equipe or One Design
>Wt 213#, Ht.  6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.


I don't agree. I get catalogs from Sailboard Warehouse for free that list
most of the production boards made (except F2 and Mistral).

The top speed of a board is dependent on footstrap placement, mastrack
placement, fin type and location and personal technique. However, if the
same person tested each board with the same fin, the most aft footstaps,
the same sail, one could calculate the average speed of a board with
a degree of certainty.

Sail speed could also be determine in similar way. Use the same
board with different sails in steady wind. Calculate average speed
in a series of trials. Then, tell me which is the faster sail and by
how much. Wouldn't you like to know the speed rating of a sail?
Even better, use a wind tunnel and calculate the air drag coefficient for
close reach, beam reach, etc.

For many people durability is a real problem. I would like to know which
board is fragile, which is not. I don't want to spend my time fixing
boards instead of sailing them. Simulate common occurances - boom hitting
the nose, flat landing the board, fin hitting an IO (immovable object), check
for seam splitting, etc.

Boris
--
*****************************************************************************

* "The views expressed here are my own, and not those of my employer."      *
*****************************************************************************

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Jay Run » Fri, 04 Mar 1994 05:57:10

Waddell sails are designed here, but production is overseas.  The new ones
say 'Assembled in USA' but only the battens are added to a finished sail.

I believe Sailworks are also designed here and built overseas.  I could
be wrong.

Windwings are completely built in Berkeley.  I have been in the shop and
seen it happen.

Waddell, Sailworks, and Windwings are all VERY cool sails.  They get better
and better every year because of the dedication and hard work of the
companies.  Makes purchases a bit of a problem!

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Fri, 04 Mar 1994 08:06:28

Quote:
>I don't agree. I get catalogs from Sailboard Warehouse for free that list
>most of the production boards made (except F2 and Mistral).

OK, I get it for the few rare pictures and the funny guy at the end doing
his best Dave Berry...

Quote:
>The top speed of a board is dependent on footstrap placement, mastrack
>placement, fin type and location and personal technique. However, if the
>same person tested each board with the same fin, the most aft footstaps,
>the same sail, one could calculate the average speed of a board with
>a degree of certainty.

yeah righ...and conditions don't change, and time is infinate.....I'm
still getting dialed on the fastest board in my quiver and I've had it
almost 2 seasons.  (8'11" Course Slalom Epoxy ASD probably one of the
fastest boards out there if you are good enough - which I'm still learning
but can keep with alot of good sailors in perfect conditions)

Quote:
>Sail speed could also be determine in similar way. Use the same
>board with different sails in steady wind. Calculate average speed
>in a series of trials. Then, tell me which is the faster sail and by
>how much. Wouldn't you like to know the speed rating of a sail?
>Even better, use a wind tunnel and calculate the air drag coefficient for
>close reach, beam reach, etc.

There are something like 75 sails out there!
Too much science.  What about transitions?  How well does it jibe?  These
are what matters in winning a race as well as going upwind.  Alot of good
sailors are going to Sailworks since they work well and are a bit simpler
and easier to sail then the 5 camberinducer Pryde sail.  Being comfortable is
faster than pure speed.

Quote:
>For many people durability is a real problem. I would like to know which
>board is fragile, which is not. I don't want to spend my time fixing
>boards instead of sailing them. Simulate common occurances - boom hitting
>the nose, flat landing the board, fin hitting an IO (immovable object), check
>for seam splitting, etc.

sort of agree.  Duratane if ya want it to last along time, in between for
good value, and epoxy for speed and fun.

Kirk out

 
 
 

Windsurfing Mag March '94

Post by Kirk Lindstr » Sun, 06 Mar 1994 05:22:32


Quote:
> Sailworks headquarters is in the Gorge (been there several times).
> Hurricane and Northwave are also good sails with headquarters and
> probably made in the US.

Hurricanes fer sure have never been made anywhere but Hood River
(well, ok, a long time ago they were made in Connecticut.)

I'm pretty sure Northwave, Windwing, Waddell, and JBD are all
on-shore operations.

Rolland
----------

99.99% sure that Waddell is made in Hong Kong /China.  Headquarters
moved from CA to the Gorge this year/season.

Kirk