Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by rod. » Tue, 05 Dec 2006 05:55:04


Hi Group

I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
:-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
was able to stay in control during the gusts.

So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
quiver?

Also in the previous thread the topic of footstrap installation by
power tool was discussed and Roger gave us all a lesson on the "proper"
method. Well my new Kona footstraps were installed exactly as Roger
described....soap screws - hand tighten - re-tighten after first couple
of sessions, and I can report that they have stayed rock solid and have
not required any attention after installation.

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by morefor.. » Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:00:22

Rod
I found the same thing with my Hyfly Free 266, 108 litre big board.
When I got it it was set up with a single back strap. It was nice and
manoeverable, but I found I was always needing to slip my back foot out
of the strap to get more on the rail, or I just couldn't go as fast as
I felt I should.  Double back is way better for me on this board.

I'd try a wave fin on your board.  If you are well powered, it should
give you plenty of lift to stay upwind, and if you work on driving
through your front foot it shouldn't spin out (make sure your harness
lines are back far enough if you do find yourself going sideways).  If
its so windy that your spinning anyway, try a smaller sail.  Bend ze
kneez lotz and keep them zupple to soak up the chop!  Interesting that
the Kona handled it better for you - I would have thought it would be
way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.
Morley

Quote:

> Hi Group

> I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
> rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
> in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

> I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
> couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
> powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
> board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
> but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

> In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
> that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
> :-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
> was able to stay in control during the gusts.

> So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
> either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
> sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
> quiver?

> Also in the previous thread the topic of footstrap installation by
> power tool was discussed and Roger gave us all a lesson on the "proper"
> method. Well my new Kona footstraps were installed exactly as Roger
> described....soap screws - hand tighten - re-tighten after first couple
> of sessions, and I can report that they have stayed rock solid and have
> not required any attention after installation.


 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by Matt » Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:07:35

Quote:
>>Interesting that the Kona handled it better for you - I would have thought
>>it would be way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.<<

In the past when I only had the IMCO and time was very precious, I would
sail it in 5.8-5.5 bay conditions and keep up with many of the smaller
boards until the inevitable wipe out on the jibe attempt.  There was
something about all that weight forward (mast track back, centerboard up)
that settled the board down on a beam reach.  I'm sure the narrow width
helped.

Matt


Quote:
> Rod
> I found the same thing with my Hyfly Free 266, 108 litre big board.
> When I got it it was set up with a single back strap. It was nice and
> manoeverable, but I found I was always needing to slip my back foot out
> of the strap to get more on the rail, or I just couldn't go as fast as
> I felt I should.  Double back is way better for me on this board.

> I'd try a wave fin on your board.  If you are well powered, it should
> give you plenty of lift to stay upwind, and if you work on driving
> through your front foot it shouldn't spin out (make sure your harness
> lines are back far enough if you do find yourself going sideways).  If
> its so windy that your spinning anyway, try a smaller sail.  Bend ze
> kneez lotz and keep them zupple to soak up the chop!  Interesting that
> the Kona handled it better for you - I would have thought it would be
> way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.
> Morley

>> Hi Group

>> I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
>> rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
>> in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

>> I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
>> couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
>> powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
>> board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
>> but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

>> In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
>> that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
>> :-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
>> was able to stay in control during the gusts.

>> So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
>> either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
>> sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
>> quiver?

>> Also in the previous thread the topic of footstrap installation by
>> power tool was discussed and Roger gave us all a lesson on the "proper"
>> method. Well my new Kona footstraps were installed exactly as Roger
>> described....soap screws - hand tighten - re-tighten after first couple
>> of sessions, and I can report that they have stayed rock solid and have
>> not required any attention after installation.


 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by sm.. » Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:06:28

Quote:

> Hi Group

> I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
> rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
> in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

> I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
> couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
> powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
> board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
> but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

> In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
> that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
> :-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
> was able to stay in control during the gusts.

> So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
> either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
> sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
> quiver?

> I have an Avantride 105 liter, and I have a gap of 6.2-5.1. But I think you may always have problems with chop with this board, since the stronger the wind conditions, the more chop you're likely going to get. Have you tried moving the straps(front as well as back) to the outermost position, closer to the rail? It might give more leverage on the board, increasing your control over it. The Avantride is so flat and fast, though, it will always be a handful in chop.

It actually doesn't surprise me that the Kona was so effective. A big
board like that plows through chop while also planing across it. You
might try the 105-liter Exocet wave board--should be more maneuverable
than the Kona, but floaty enough, and the heel bumpers supposed to make
things more comfy on your knees.

It sounds like you have kind of a tough sailing site--not much wind, so
you're forced to sail big stuff, and the wind forces you to sail
directly into the chop, which makes it hard to control the board. My
sympathies.

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by Steve Prett » Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:30:15

You are also riding on a big air cushion once you are on a plane. I liked my
Phoenix 340 in those conditions before I had and other board to sail.

I think Tinho D. wrote an article or just a snippit of an article on long
board planing that talked about "floating" over chop


Quote:
>>>Interesting that the Kona handled it better for you - I would have
>>>thought it would be way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.<<

> In the past when I only had the IMCO and time was very precious, I would
> sail it in 5.8-5.5 bay conditions and keep up with many of the smaller
> boards until the inevitable wipe out on the jibe attempt.  There was
> something about all that weight forward (mast track back, centerboard up)
> that settled the board down on a beam reach.  I'm sure the narrow width
> helped.

> Matt



>> Rod
>> I found the same thing with my Hyfly Free 266, 108 litre big board.
>> When I got it it was set up with a single back strap. It was nice and
>> manoeverable, but I found I was always needing to slip my back foot out
>> of the strap to get more on the rail, or I just couldn't go as fast as
>> I felt I should.  Double back is way better for me on this board.

>> I'd try a wave fin on your board.  If you are well powered, it should
>> give you plenty of lift to stay upwind, and if you work on driving
>> through your front foot it shouldn't spin out (make sure your harness
>> lines are back far enough if you do find yourself going sideways).  If
>> its so windy that your spinning anyway, try a smaller sail.  Bend ze
>> kneez lotz and keep them zupple to soak up the chop!  Interesting that
>> the Kona handled it better for you - I would have thought it would be
>> way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.
>> Morley

>>> Hi Group

>>> I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
>>> rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
>>> in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

>>> I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
>>> couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
>>> powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
>>> board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
>>> but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

>>> In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
>>> that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
>>> :-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
>>> was able to stay in control during the gusts.

>>> So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
>>> either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
>>> sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
>>> quiver?

>>> Also in the previous thread the topic of footstrap installation by
>>> power tool was discussed and Roger gave us all a lesson on the "proper"
>>> method. Well my new Kona footstraps were installed exactly as Roger
>>> described....soap screws - hand tighten - re-tighten after first couple
>>> of sessions, and I can report that they have stayed rock solid and have
>>> not required any attention after installation.

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by Matt » Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:13:06

Good point.  The first couple times planing the IMCO in the back straps
surprised me cause I expected the front of the board to get pushed around by
the chop.  It happened very infrequently.


Quote:
> You are also riding on a big air cushion once you are on a plane. I liked
> my Phoenix 340 in those conditions before I had and other board to sail.

> I think Tinho D. wrote an article or just a snippit of an article on long
> board planing that talked about "floating" over chop



>>>>Interesting that the Kona handled it better for you - I would have
>>>>thought it would be way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.<<

>> In the past when I only had the IMCO and time was very precious, I would
>> sail it in 5.8-5.5 bay conditions and keep up with many of the smaller
>> boards until the inevitable wipe out on the jibe attempt.  There was
>> something about all that weight forward (mast track back, centerboard up)
>> that settled the board down on a beam reach.  I'm sure the narrow width
>> helped.

>> Matt



>>> Rod
>>> I found the same thing with my Hyfly Free 266, 108 litre big board.
>>> When I got it it was set up with a single back strap. It was nice and
>>> manoeverable, but I found I was always needing to slip my back foot out
>>> of the strap to get more on the rail, or I just couldn't go as fast as
>>> I felt I should.  Double back is way better for me on this board.

>>> I'd try a wave fin on your board.  If you are well powered, it should
>>> give you plenty of lift to stay upwind, and if you work on driving
>>> through your front foot it shouldn't spin out (make sure your harness
>>> lines are back far enough if you do find yourself going sideways).  If
>>> its so windy that your spinning anyway, try a smaller sail.  Bend ze
>>> kneez lotz and keep them zupple to soak up the chop!  Interesting that
>>> the Kona handled it better for you - I would have thought it would be
>>> way slappier with all that nose to catch chop.
>>> Morley

>>>> Hi Group

>>>> I started a thread a while back about whether I should try a single
>>>> rear strap on my RRD Avantride S, 270x66x115L, to try to calm it down
>>>> in 6.4 conditions as I was having difficulty with chop.

>>>> I can now report that I finally tried a single back strap after a
>>>> couple of frustrating near overpowered 6.4 sessions. I went out nicely
>>>> powered on a 7.6 and absolutely hated it. Man what a way to turn a fast
>>>> board into a dog. It may well be Ok for those overpowered 6.4 sessions
>>>> but it is not worth the compromise for other less powered sessions.

>>>> In one 6.4 session I was having so much trouble coping with the chop
>>>> that I swapped the RRD for my Kona! That board sure is a chop flattener
>>>> :-) And I didn't notice any significant decrease in speed either, but
>>>> was able to stay in control during the gusts.

>>>> So I'll have to find another way to slow/quiten down the RRD, I guess
>>>> either by smaller fin, (currently a 34cm Liberty freeride) or a smaller
>>>> sail. What is a suggested sail size to drop down from a 9 / 7.6 / 6.4
>>>> quiver?

>>>> Also in the previous thread the topic of footstrap installation by
>>>> power tool was discussed and Roger gave us all a lesson on the "proper"
>>>> method. Well my new Kona footstraps were installed exactly as Roger
>>>> described....soap screws - hand tighten - re-tighten after first couple
>>>> of sessions, and I can report that they have stayed rock solid and have
>>>> not required any attention after installation.

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by rod. » Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:13:59

I found a good way to make the RRD more controlable in chop with my
6.4.

I sold it and bought an F2 Axxis 273, 273 x 56 x 98L :-). I don't know
what it is but when it comes to using boards at the very small end of
what my skill level will allow, I find the older late 90's long and
narrow boards to be unbeatable for ease of use (particularly when
underpowered) and great value. I love my bigger short wide boards but
just can't seem to like the smaller ones as much.

The main issue preventing me from selling the RRD before was that it
could take my middle sail (7.6), a sail I never wanted to use on my
former big freeformula. What has changed is that I have had a couple of
perfectly powered 7.6 sessions on the Kona and it has performed very
well. So well that I'm happy to have it as my 7.6 / 9m board, leaving
the way open for the F2 as my 6.4 and under board.

Can anyone suggest a good sail size to go to down from my 6.4? The shop
guy suggested a 5.9 but I was thinking more 5.5 / 5.7. this would be my
least used sail and only come out a handful of times each year when I
couldn't hold onto my 6.4 so something on the larger size would
probably used most.

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by Jrob » Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:26:18

Quote:

> I found a good way to make the RRD more controlable in chop with my
> 6.4.

> I sold it and bought an F2 Axxis 273, 273 x 56 x 98L :-). I don't know
> what it is but when it comes to using boards at the very small end of
> what my skill level will allow, I find the older late 90's long and
> narrow boards to be unbeatable for ease of use (particularly when
> underpowered) and great value. I love my bigger short wide boards but
> just can't seem to like the smaller ones as much.

Ahh the potent Axxis. I ride the 103l version and love it as well.
Mainly because it can carry from 5.3-7.3 given appropriate fins
selected...and it's fast! so far managed just over 31kts.

Quote:
> Can anyone suggest a good sail size to go to down from my 6.4? The shop
> guy suggested a 5.9 but I was thinking more 5.5 / 5.7. this would be my
> least used sail and only come out a handful of times each year when I
> couldn't hold onto my 6.4 so something on the larger size would
> probably used most.

I usedto go 7.3 to 5.3 but inserted a 5.8.  If I did a 7.3 6.4 I'd look
for 5.3 as well.  Mine's a NP Zone fro '01 or '02.  It has wide tuning
range so often it overlaps the 5.8 but I think it'd pair with a 6.4
better.

J

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by (PeteCresswell » Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:29:20

Per rod.r:

Quote:
>Can anyone suggest a good sail size to go to down from my 6.4? The shop
>guy suggested a 5.9 but I was thinking more 5.5 / 5.7. this would be my

Probably depends on what kind of sail the 6.4 is.

On my Ezzy Infinity quiver, I can go from 6.6 to 5.4 and still have some
overlap.... enough that I'd unload my 6.0 if I could.
--
PeteCresswell

 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by rod. » Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:03:39

All my sails are 2006 Simmer 0-7's which are 7 batten RAF freeride/race
sails.
 
 
 

Update on "Single or double rear strap" thread

Post by Matt » Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:23:50

FWIW my quiver for my 105L board is 6.8, 5.8, and 5.0.  I think a 5.5-5.7
should work nicely for you.

Best,
Matt


Quote:
>I found a good way to make the RRD more controlable in chop with my
> 6.4.

> I sold it and bought an F2 Axxis 273, 273 x 56 x 98L :-). I don't know
> what it is but when it comes to using boards at the very small end of
> what my skill level will allow, I find the older late 90's long and
> narrow boards to be unbeatable for ease of use (particularly when
> underpowered) and great value. I love my bigger short wide boards but
> just can't seem to like the smaller ones as much.

> The main issue preventing me from selling the RRD before was that it
> could take my middle sail (7.6), a sail I never wanted to use on my
> former big freeformula. What has changed is that I have had a couple of
> perfectly powered 7.6 sessions on the Kona and it has performed very
> well. So well that I'm happy to have it as my 7.6 / 9m board, leaving
> the way open for the F2 as my 6.4 and under board.

> Can anyone suggest a good sail size to go to down from my 6.4? The shop
> guy suggested a 5.9 but I was thinking more 5.5 / 5.7. this would be my
> least used sail and only come out a handful of times each year when I
> couldn't hold onto my 6.4 so something on the larger size would
> probably used most.