that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Daniel Pfu » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Yesterday there was some wind in Geneva (probably force 4 and 5 with gusts),
and I could finally go out windsurfing again (after a year abscence!). BTW:
when people say here "wind conditions where 6", does that mean, 6.0 m2 of
sail size or Force 6 (haven't really got that one yet)...

Anyway, that's not my problem, but my problem is that I cannot jibe (not
one passed!). I'll try to describe what I do and what happens:
-I get my back foot out of the strap
-I gently push on the back foot into the center,
-I bring my forward hand a little back from the mast
-the board starts to turn...
-then suddenly, the board is not stable anymore and starts to "wiggle"
from left to right and I usually lose my balance and fall :(
-if I do get it a little further, I usually cannot hold the sail anymore
since my arms are too stretched and the wind takes the sail...so I fall
also :(

What could I do to make it work? Any pointers taken with pleasure! TIA

Daniel Pfund
--
    __    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8130/
   ///    Home of DPBank and my other Psion programs.
__///          Psion Series 3(a) FAQ maintainer
\\X/  "If you don't archive the past, you're condemned to rewrite it."

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by NLW TFW » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00

PART TWO OF A TWO-PART POST:
 Go practice those things -- speed you never thought you could attain,
oversteering, and oversheeting. You'll get past three big hurdles, begin
to recognize at least 78 of the the finer hurdles as they emerge from the
shadow of the bigger hurdles, and you'll be on your way. And read back
issues of Windsurfing mag; you'll find at least three learn-to-jibe
treatises in every issue, or so it seems, but the information is there. I
certainly ain't going to take the time to rewrite it all here. There's all
the absolutely critical stuff like bending your knees but not your waist
(curtsey, not bow), looking way out past the exit of your curve (do you
watch the hood of your car in a turn, or look up the street you're
entering?), and unweighting the rail once you're in a broad reach in your
new direction (don't you return the steering wheel to center once aimed
directly at that pedestrian who walked on DON'T WALK?).

Keep working on your speed and aggressive turns, and read all you can
about the process. We'll have you carving jibes within a short 3-5 years
if you have average ability and get a LOT of quality water time. Count on
being hard to live with for the next half a decade -- or just accept the
fact that learning to jibe is much more difficult than living from about
puberty through your first three marriages.

Hint: jibes are 90-degree turns, not 180-degree turns. The first 45
degrees is just getting in position and up to speed to start the jibe, and
the last 45 degrees comes after you've flipped the sail, switched feet,
gotten in the new straps, hooked in, dodged three fallen sailors, and are
all powered up and fully planing and balanced again.
Mike \m/

Never Leave Wind To Find Wind

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by NLW TFW » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Daniel --
My response wouldn't fit in one post, so I split it into two rather than
take the time to shorten it. Here's PART ONE:

 Yes, wind speed here is measured in sail size. 4.0 wind, for example, is
somewhere around 30 mph, give or take 40 pounds, 5 knots,  experience
level, altitude, etc. I've forgotten what Mr. Beaufort would call it.
 Step by step, here's what I sense from your jibe sequence:
 1. Gently? Not too gently; you want to get that sucker around before you
drop off a plane. Put that back foot near the far rail and sink some real
weight onto it. Put too much weight on the rail first, to ensure you keep
turning, then back off when you learn more.
 2. Oversheet. Pull the back hand in until your sail foot presses against
your leg before you even turn the board. That shuts off the power so you
don't get overpowered in the turn. Oversheeted, the sail has zero pull on
your arms. At the same time, thrust your front arm forward and slightly to
the inside of the turn. Now you look like you're shooting a bow and arrow
at a fish inside your turn -- back hand bent in close to your body (as if
holding the arrow and bowstring) and front hand stuck as far out front as
you can get it (as though holding the bow). You stomp that rail down hard
and aggro and fire your bow and arrow, and you'll turn so fast you are
guaranteed to fall off your board. That's a problem, but it's also a
hurdle you just got past -- not turning the corner is a big obstacle. Get
past that and you're on your way to learning the other 348 steps to a good
carving jibe.
 3. If your board wanders, one of two things (or both) is happening. You
are probably going WAY too slow. If your eyes aren't watering from
windburn, if you aren't crapping in your pants from stark terror, if
you've ever sailed this fast before, if your wake isn't on fire, if
oncoming sailors a mile away aren't already bailing -- you aren't going
fast enough to coast through your jibe. Speed's another hurdle you must
overcome, because you'e going to bobble through those first 2,826 jibes so
ineptly that you'll lose at least 142 knots of board speed before you're
facing the shore you came from. Then when you've overcome the speed
hurdle, you can apply some judgement and practice the skills and learn to
jibe at merely exciting speeds. Even if you aren't going way too slow (but
all beginning jibers are), your wobbling comes from jerking your steering
wheel all over the place (shifting the weight on your two feet). Stop
That! If you're going fast enough, your board is a solid platform under
you, not a mushy floating plank. Press down on the inside (rail) foot and
lift up on the outside (front) foot by raising that heel.
PART TWO FOLLOWS, if we're lucky.
Mike \m/
Never Leave Wind To Find Wind

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Ron Shamas » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Yesterday there was some wind in Geneva (probably force 4 and 5 with gusts),
> and I could finally go out windsurfing again (after a year abscence!). BTW:
> when people say here "wind conditions where 6", does that mean, 6.0 m2 of
> sail size or Force 6 (haven't really got that one yet)...

> Anyway, that's not my problem, but my problem is that I cannot jibe (not
> one passed!). I'll try to describe what I do and what happens:
> -I get my back foot out of the strap
> -I gently push on the back foot into the center,
> -I bring my forward hand a little back from the mast
> -the board starts to turn...
> -then suddenly, the board is not stable anymore and starts to "wiggle"
> from left to right and I usually lose my balance and fall :(
> -if I do get it a little further, I usually cannot hold the sail anymore
> since my arms are too stretched and the wind takes the sail...so I fall
> also :(

> What could I do to make it work? Any pointers taken with pleasure! TIA

> Daniel Pfund
> --
>     __    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8130/
>    ///    Home of DPBank and my other Psion programs.
> __///          Psion Series 3(a) FAQ maintainer
> \\X/  "If you don't archive the past, you're condemned to rewrite it."


The surest way to get at the heart of the matter and suceeed is to take a
leson. There are so many possible causes for the jibe problems, that a
leson will be the quickest way to identify and correct the problem.

The comments below assume that you are using a shortoard with no
centreboard/daggerboard.

Posible causes-
1. Not putting your weight forward- very common problem. It's a bit scary
initially to put your weight forward, but remind yourself- it's only
water. You really need to concentrate on having your weight forward of
centerline. Your knees should be bent forward and slightly into the turn.
Your back leg should be between the back and front footstraps, near to
the downwind rail of the board. Your weight should be on the ball of
your backfoot. There should be no weight on the heel of your back
foot. Most of your weight should be on the back foot. The foot that is
still in the footstrap should be nearly completely unweighted. If you
downhill ski, you will understand the concept of keeping your weight
forward- you can't "carve" a turn if your weight is on the back of your
ski.

2. Not going into the jibe fast enough- you need speed or your jibe will
not work.  While fully planing on a beam reach (90 degrees to wind
direction), start turning your board downwind about 15 to 20 degrees, so
that part of your turn is already done, and so you pick up more speed-
don't let the speed scare you- remember- it's only water!

3. If you feel the sail overpowered during the jibe, try leaving your
front hand close to the mast, but move your back hand about 6 inches back
on the boom, and sheet in further than normal- this helps get more
leverage to hold the sail, and also transfers the force from the sail to
the front of the board, which helps stabilize the board to stop it from
bouncing. You should not normally be moving your front hand back- just
move your back hand back to get more leverage to be able to force the
sail to sheet in. Your back arm should be bent from sheeting in. Only
sheet in with your back hand.your front hand shoould be more straight,
and about 1 ft away from the front of your face. Remember that during
this time your weight should be forward and your knees bent forward
and slightly into the turn.

4. Try the above- if still having major problems, get a leson- it
will save a lot of trial and error.

5. Remember to have fun!

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Jay Run » Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Don't be so gentle on that back foot!  Dive into the turn with
your knees, press your knees toward the center of the turn while
keeping your upper body upright over the board.

Front arm should be incredibly straight, straighter than it has ever
been before, pushing the mast forward and to the center of the turn.

Back arm should incredibly bent, as bent as you can get it, pulling
the back part of the sail against your body, sheeting, oversheeting.
This allows you to move your body over the board without sheeting
out at all, keeps board speed and mast base pressure.

Try carving a few turns without flipping the sail, carve like you
really mean it.  Of course you will get backwinded and blown off the
board, but you will get the feeling of carving the turn aggressively,
pressing your knees into the turn.  After that it is just a matter of
flipping the sail while keeping the carve.

Jay

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Pete Bura » Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Hi,
A guy named Tony Barbieri in the gorge told me to be on the balls of BOTH feet when
jibing.  This really helped me to curtsie, not bow.  Give it a try,
Sail on,
Pete

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Pond Sc » Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> A guy named Tony Barbieri in the gorge told me to be on the balls of
BOTH feet when
> jibing.  This really helped me to curtsie, not bow.  Give it a try,

One way to insure this is to lift the heel of your outside foot.  When I was
learning to jibe I found that this helped prevent me from getting my weight
too far back on the board.  Some people also suggest pushing down on your
booms to keep your weight forward and board flat.

--

THE BORG ASSIMILATED ME AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Volker Wedemeie » Tue, 18 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> BTW:
> when people say here "wind conditions where 6", does that mean, 6.0 m2 of
> sail size or Force 6 (haven't really got that one yet)...

Hmm, I figure they mean sail size 6. Otherwise one would say the wind was
force 6 or some such.

Quote:
> Anyway, that's not my problem, but my problem is that I cannot jibe (not
> one passed!). I'll try to describe what I do and what happens:
> -I get my back foot out of the strap
> -I gently push on the back foot into the center,
> -I bring my forward hand a little back from the mast
> -the board starts to turn...
> -then suddenly, the board is not stable anymore and starts to "wiggle"
> from left to right and I usually lose my balance and fall :(
> -if I do get it a little further, I usually cannot hold the sail anymore
> since my arms are too stretched and the wind takes the sail...so I fall
> also :(

> What could I do to make it work? Any pointers taken with pleasure! TIA

Ok, I'll try to give it a shot.

First of all, you say you are in the straps, so I figure you are planing.
Fine!
Now, before you initiate the jibe you should bear off! That way you've
already done part of the turn plus most important you take up speed. I
know it feels scary to do a jibe at top speed at first, but it's easyer,
beleive me.
Then you take your back foot out of the strap. That's right. But instead
of only gently pushing on the center of the board with your back foot,
you should sheet in and get your whole body up over the board, go down in
your knees a bit and lean forward and leeward. Both heels should come up
from the board, only the front part of your feet should be on the deck.
At the same time you should hold the sail forward, but I think
you shouldn't move any hand back, only stretch out your mast arm and
another thing to do is to keep completely sheeted in. When you
go down in your knees, the sail should actually touch your back leg.

With this technique your board should swing around easyly. And you
shouldn't have much sail pressure during the jibe, because you are going
down wind with about the speed of the wind.

Now the only thing that remains is to rotate the sail and to switch your
foot position. I often do this almost at the same time or I rotate the
sail first. When I get off plane during the jibe, I often switch my feet
first and then rotate the sail. But I think the sequence here is a matter
of taste and probably depends on the situation.

Hope that helped a bit,

Volker

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Daniel Pfu » Wed, 19 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
> Hope that helped a bit,

You are wonderful! Thank you to all who have either responded here
or directly by email.

I haven't got the chance to try all your tips, but I understand the
problem a little better now (hopefully it will also work on the water
the way I'd like it ;-))

Anyway, thanks again to all.

Daniel Pfund
--
    __    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8130/
   ///    Home of DPBank and my other Psion programs.
__///          Psion Series 3(a) FAQ maintainer
\\X/  "If you can't beat them, join them" ;-) CIS: 101743,775

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Robert Sulliv » Wed, 19 Jun 1996 04:00:00

My $.02:  Here is a possible light wind idea for improving jibes.  First
let me say that I have found my right foot forward jibes improved much
faster than my left foot forward jibes.  I think this is because years of
surfing; thus, I am more skilled at turning the board with my right foot
forward.  So now when surfing I try to do some left foot forward turning
in hopes of getting positive transfer to my weaker jibe.  Second, as kids
on no wave days we would ride our surfboards behind boats like skis.  So
finally, here is my idea.  If you have access to a ski boat, on light
wind days try getting towed.  You can work on the turning part of the
board for a jibe then you can concentrate just on the sail change during
actual jibes since your leg work would be second nature.
  Back to our experience.  We were on long boards with wax only.  Too
much speed and we gradually would  slide off the front of the board and
end up skipping across the water on our backs.  Working with a short
board and straps might be possible.  Luck. Bob.

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Xtrspor » Wed, 19 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Read the rest of this thread for some great lengthy advice. Here's my
short so/so advice:

The wobbles:
To keep the board slicing through the chop put downward pressure on the
boom. Try to use the boom to drive the mast through the deck of the board.
Even in the ***, *** chop if you exert enough pressure on the boom
you'll slice through the water like a hot knife through butter.

Concentration
Go through a few jibes with only a single objective. For 5 or 6 jibes only
work on carving the board. Forget that you have a sail in your hands. For
the next 5 or 6 only be conscious of the sail. It's amazing what the feet
will remember from the previous exercise.

Feedback
I'll predict that you're going to make your first jibe in less than a
couple of weeks. When you make it please let us know what advice has
helped.

cya,

Skip

Cape Cod-Maui-The Gorge-San Francisco
Neilpryde-Tiga-Fiberspar
\

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Daniel Pfu » Fri, 21 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Feedback
> I'll predict that you're going to make your first jibe in less than a
> couple of weeks. When you make it please let us know what advice has
> helped.

I can already tell your prediction will be wrong: I'll be in exams
for 2 1/2 weeks now ;-)

I also have to wait for wind here... Geneva is not Hawaii!

I have got numerous advice and I'll save them all and tell you what
worked or not in the group.

Daniel
--
    __    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8130/
   ///    Home of DPBank and my other Psion programs.
__///          Psion Series 3(a) FAQ maintainer
\\X/  "If you can't beat them, join them" ;-) CIS: 101743,775

 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Gil » Mon, 24 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>I can already tell your prediction will be wrong: I'll be in exams
>for 2 1/2 weeks now ;-)
>I also have to wait for wind here... Geneva is not Hawaii!
>I have got numerous advice and I'll save them all and tell you what
>worked or not in the group.

I'd like to thank the many comments provided in this thread about how to
Jibe or Gybe. Yesterday I completed 4 jibes powered up on a 5.4. Comments
about picking up speed helped. My own lessons from ASD and Vela reminded
me to keep my knees bent in the chop. One other help is having a son half
my age showing me a Gybe and then saying "Look Dad, can you do that Dad?"
Great motivator.  Daniel will probably have to forgo that part of the
instruction.
 
 
 

that damn jibe... what am I doing wrong?

Post by Daniel Pfu » Tue, 25 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> I'd like to thank the many comments provided in this thread about how to
> Jibe or Gybe. Yesterday I completed 4 jibes powered up on a 5.4. Comments
> about picking up speed helped. My own lessons from ASD and Vela reminded
> me to keep my knees bent in the chop. One other help is having a son half
> my age showing me a Gybe and then saying "Look Dad, can you do that Dad?"
> Great motivator.  Daniel will probably have to forgo that part of the
> instruction.

ROFL ;-)

I'm more of the "son half my age" person ;-)

I'll have to learn first, then get my dad involved (highly impossible)
and then say "hey, can you do that"...  By that time, I'll be dad
myself ;-)

Daniel
--
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| )|/   ============================================       ///
|/ |     Home of DPBank and my other Psion programs     __///
"If you can't beat them, join them" ;-) CIS:101743,775  \\X/