Hatteras trip report

Hatteras trip report

Post by JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMil » Wed, 04 May 2005 04:25:11


Hey all,

just got back from Frisco on Saturday,  just on time to miss most of
Windfest  :(
would have liked to stay longer, but accommodations were up on Saturday
morning.

I arrived the previous Saturday morning, and promptly rigged and sailed that
day for a couple hrs.
was able to sail again Sunday and Monday as well.
(all sound side)  was able to rig a 5.5 for the first time in my life and
not use it as a beginners sail.  :)
Tuesday was a dud,  Wednesday gave a great late afternoon session,  Thursday
morning was nice,  but died quickly,
Friday morning was great, and then died around early afternoon.

personal trip highlights,

my first successful jibe :)
walking thru the setting up of windfest Thursday afternoon, and checking out
the new rides.
scoring a great deal on a used carbon boom 1 short day after destroying an
aluminum boom that I wished I had an excuse to replace.
setting my own personal gps speed record on my f155 with a 6.5 sail at 30.6
mph

trip lowlights

cutting my foot on something out in the sound, and leaving a pool of ***
on the boardwalk to the launch.
waiting for the wind on Thursday morning then rigging too small and getting
skunked on 3 separate trips back to re rig.
sandbars

things I learned

Sailing with other people is that much more fun than sailing solo as I am
normally forced to do here in TN.
those guys at windfest know their sh^t I just watched for 30 min as they
explained rigging ect, and learned something every time  (for example - too
much outhaul makes a sail unstable)

Dave

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by Mariu » Wed, 04 May 2005 05:27:28

Thanks for the report! Looks like a great trip overall :)

So, how do you know you have too much outhaul?

Quote:

> Hey all,

> just got back from Frisco on Saturday,  just on time to miss most of
> Windfest  :(
> would have liked to stay longer, but accommodations were up on
Saturday
> morning.

> I arrived the previous Saturday morning, and promptly rigged and
sailed that
> day for a couple hrs.
> was able to sail again Sunday and Monday as well.
> (all sound side)  was able to rig a 5.5 for the first time in my life
and
> not use it as a beginners sail.  :)
> Tuesday was a dud,  Wednesday gave a great late afternoon session,
Thursday
> morning was nice,  but died quickly,
> Friday morning was great, and then died around early afternoon.

> personal trip highlights,

> my first successful jibe :)
> walking thru the setting up of windfest Thursday afternoon, and
checking out
> the new rides.
> scoring a great deal on a used carbon boom 1 short day after
destroying an
> aluminum boom that I wished I had an excuse to replace.
> setting my own personal gps speed record on my f155 with a 6.5 sail
at 30.6
> mph

> trip lowlights

> cutting my foot on something out in the sound, and leaving a pool of
***
> on the boardwalk to the launch.
> waiting for the wind on Thursday morning then rigging too small and
getting
> skunked on 3 separate trips back to re rig.
> sandbars

> things I learned

> Sailing with other people is that much more fun than sailing solo as
I am
> normally forced to do here in TN.
> those guys at windfest know their sh^t I just watched for 30 min as
they
> explained rigging ect, and learned something every time  (for example
- too
> much outhaul makes a sail unstable)

> Dave


 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMil » Wed, 04 May 2005 04:47:49


Quote:
> Thanks for the report! Looks like a great trip overall :)

> So, how do you know you have too much outhaul?

well,  I imagine others will be able to explain this better than I can,
but, with the help of another person after your sail is rigged up and with
the boom attached, and the battens curved below the mast lay your sail on
the ground (as if the wind was blowing straight down on the sail).   have
them hold down the foot of the sail.   you take the top of the mast and push
it slightly towards the ground,  (simulating the effect the wind would have
on bending your mast)  watching the sail between the battens above and below
the boom,  if you have too much outhaul, the sail will wrinkle in this area,
taking what was a locked in coe and allowing it to shift around on the sail.

if your outhaul is just right,  the draft of the sail will stay stable and
not wrinkle up.

I believe it was pepi from sailworks that was explaining this, so he'd
probably be able to explain this with better detail than I.

Dave

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by Mariu » Wed, 04 May 2005 05:57:25

Neat, thanks!

So one way to test this by yourself could be:

1. attach the foot mast to the board
2. lay the mast straight downwind on the boom
3. move to the top of the mast and push down on it

Makes sense?

Marius

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by Elle » Wed, 04 May 2005 11:23:27

Hi,
  How did we miss meeting you? If you'd stopped by the
Starboard/Sailworks site, Roger and I would have enjoyed meeting you.
Maybe you did, but didn't tell us who you were?
  The conditions all week were typical Hatteras: a little bit of
everything.
Ellen

Quote:

> Hey all,

> just got back from Frisco on Saturday,  just on time to miss most of
> Windfest  :(
> would have liked to stay longer, but accommodations were up on
Saturday
> morning.

> I arrived the previous Saturday morning, and promptly rigged and
sailed that
> day for a couple hrs.
> was able to sail again Sunday and Monday as well.
> (all sound side)  was able to rig a 5.5 for the first time in my life
and
> not use it as a beginners sail.  :)
> Tuesday was a dud,  Wednesday gave a great late afternoon session,
Thursday
> morning was nice,  but died quickly,
> Friday morning was great, and then died around early afternoon.

> personal trip highlights,

> my first successful jibe :)
> walking thru the setting up of windfest Thursday afternoon, and
checking out
> the new rides.
> scoring a great deal on a used carbon boom 1 short day after
destroying an
> aluminum boom that I wished I had an excuse to replace.
> setting my own personal gps speed record on my f155 with a 6.5 sail
at 30.6
> mph

> trip lowlights

> cutting my foot on something out in the sound, and leaving a pool of
***
> on the boardwalk to the launch.
> waiting for the wind on Thursday morning then rigging too small and
getting
> skunked on 3 separate trips back to re rig.
> sandbars

> things I learned

> Sailing with other people is that much more fun than sailing solo as
I am
> normally forced to do here in TN.
> those guys at windfest know their sh^t I just watched for 30 min as
they
> explained rigging ect, and learned something every time  (for example
- too
> much outhaul makes a sail unstable)

> Dave

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by Glenn Woodel » Wed, 04 May 2005 11:54:26

On Mon, 2 May 2005 15:25:11 -0400, "JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMilk"

Quote:

>Hey all,

>just got back from Frisco on Saturday,  just on time to miss most of
>Windfest  :(
>things I learned

>those guys at windfest know their sh^t I just watched for 30 min as they
>explained rigging ect, and learned something every time  (for example - too
>much outhaul makes a sail unstable)

Too little makes it unstable as well.  :)

A poor sail rigged properly is much better than a good sail rigged
improperly.

Glenn

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by Glenn Woodel » Wed, 04 May 2005 11:59:11

Just be careful because all of this is relative. When sailing a 5.2 in
winds blowing above 35, you'll want that extra outhaul and probably
even more.

My rule of thumb for marginal winds for a given sail (7.5 and below)
is to add outhaul until the sail will not touch the boom when pulled
hard against the wind while standing vertical.

Once on the water, if the front hand has to pull too much, add outhaul
until the draft moves forward enough to balance the lines. This of
course assumes that the lines are in the correct position in the first
place.

Glenn

On Mon, 2 May 2005 15:47:49 -0400, "JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMilk"

Quote:



>> Thanks for the report! Looks like a great trip overall :)

>> So, how do you know you have too much outhaul?

>well,  I imagine others will be able to explain this better than I can,
>but, with the help of another person after your sail is rigged up and with
>the boom attached, and the battens curved below the mast lay your sail on
>the ground (as if the wind was blowing straight down on the sail).   have
>them hold down the foot of the sail.   you take the top of the mast and push
>it slightly towards the ground,  (simulating the effect the wind would have
>on bending your mast)  watching the sail between the battens above and below
>the boom,  if you have too much outhaul, the sail will wrinkle in this area,
>taking what was a locked in coe and allowing it to shift around on the sail.

>if your outhaul is just right,  the draft of the sail will stay stable and
>not wrinkle up.

>I believe it was pepi from sailworks that was explaining this, so he'd
>probably be able to explain this with better detail than I.

>Dave

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by AD. » Wed, 04 May 2005 14:33:37

Quote:

> A poor sail rigged properly is much better than a good sail rigged
> improperly.

That line and the 'hold the foot of the sail down, then bend the
mast' tuning tip remind me of that old NP video (Instant Replay?) from
nearly 15yrs ago.

That was my first exposure to the concept of a loose leech :)

Of course it was another few years before I had any sails that worked that
way hehe

--
Cheers
Anton

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMil » Wed, 04 May 2005 09:51:33

yes, that would work,  if your board was heavy enough to cause your mast to
bend before you lifted the board of the ground.

Dave


Quote:
> Neat, thanks!

> So one way to test this by yourself could be:

> 1. attach the foot mast to the board
> 2. lay the mast straight downwind on the boom
> 3. move to the top of the mast and push down on it

> Makes sense?

> Marius

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMil » Wed, 04 May 2005 22:23:32

I didn't stick around long to say hello,  I guess I should have
everyone looked pretty busy when I got there,  so I didn't want to get in
the way,
Ellen,  I'm guessing you were the one teaching people on the start board set
up on the swivel stand,  or whatever you call it.
Roger ( I knew who he was from the hat) was helping someone else rig up a
board to go out in the "wind"

I was talking with another person who was recommending boards, he also
showed me an new weed fin that was being tested.  looked kinda cool.

Dave


Quote:
> Hi,
>  How did we miss meeting you? If you'd stopped by the
> Starboard/Sailworks site, Roger and I would have enjoyed meeting you.
> Maybe you did, but didn't tell us who you were?
>  The conditions all week were typical Hatteras: a little bit of
> everything.
> Ellen


>> Hey all,

>> just got back from Frisco on Saturday,  just on time to miss most of
>> Windfest  :(
>> would have liked to stay longer, but accommodations were up on
> Saturday
>> morning.

>> I arrived the previous Saturday morning, and promptly rigged and
> sailed that
>> day for a couple hrs.
>> was able to sail again Sunday and Monday as well.
>> (all sound side)  was able to rig a 5.5 for the first time in my life
> and
>> not use it as a beginners sail.  :)
>> Tuesday was a dud,  Wednesday gave a great late afternoon session,
> Thursday
>> morning was nice,  but died quickly,
>> Friday morning was great, and then died around early afternoon.

>> personal trip highlights,

>> my first successful jibe :)
>> walking thru the setting up of windfest Thursday afternoon, and
> checking out
>> the new rides.
>> scoring a great deal on a used carbon boom 1 short day after
> destroying an
>> aluminum boom that I wished I had an excuse to replace.
>> setting my own personal gps speed record on my f155 with a 6.5 sail
> at 30.6
>> mph

>> trip lowlights

>> cutting my foot on something out in the sound, and leaving a pool of
> ***
>> on the boardwalk to the launch.
>> waiting for the wind on Thursday morning then rigging too small and
> getting
>> skunked on 3 separate trips back to re rig.
>> sandbars

>> things I learned

>> Sailing with other people is that much more fun than sailing solo as
> I am
>> normally forced to do here in TN.
>> those guys at windfest know their sh^t I just watched for 30 min as
> they
>> explained rigging ect, and learned something every time  (for example
> - too
>> much outhaul makes a sail unstable)

>> Dave

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by P.. » Sun, 08 May 2005 01:07:16

Just to clear the air on the earlier reference to my comments regarding
outhaul effecting draft location (during the rigging clinic I gave in
Hatteras).
My comments were heard correctly, but lacked the additional context of
information regarding the question posed to me during that clinic about
over outhauling a sail.  I was making a point of explaning that when
you are overpowered on a sail and attempt to depower your sail with
outhaul adjustment, that you can do this only to a certain point.
The goal of increasing your outhaul tension is to reduce the amount of
draft (sail shape) that your sail has (therefore reducing the amount of
power).  But, this is only good to a certain point.  Once you reach a
point where you are overouthauling your sail so that it is as flat as a
sheet of plywood, you then have eliminated any draft stability that
your sail had, plus induced an increased amount of perimeter tension
(in the leech) that can result in pullling your center of effort up
higher on the sail (and since your rig is raked at an angle, therefore
results in a COE/draft that has moved aft on your board).

Each of the comments made in posting to this topic have all been
correct, but relate to different circumstances for how a sailor would
want his/her rig to perform.  Certain tuning techniques will typically
work best some styles of sails and not for others.  I would definitely
feel confortable sailing with less outhaul on a race or draft stable
freeride sail, but I would not feel as comfortable sailing a wave or
freestyle sail with less outhaul.  Certain styles of sails are designed
to perform in specific ways, and it is helpful to be aware of these
benefits.

Thank you
Pepi

 
 
 

Hatteras trip report

Post by JimmySchmittsLovesChocolateMil » Mon, 09 May 2005 08:31:28

Pepi,

sorry if  I put you on the spot,

Dave


Quote:
> Just to clear the air on the earlier reference to my comments regarding
> outhaul effecting draft location (during the rigging clinic I gave in
> Hatteras).
> My comments were heard correctly, but lacked the additional context of
> information regarding the question posed to me during that clinic about
> over outhauling a sail.  I was making a point of explaning that when
> you are overpowered on a sail and attempt to depower your sail with
> outhaul adjustment, that you can do this only to a certain point.
> The goal of increasing your outhaul tension is to reduce the amount of
> draft (sail shape) that your sail has (therefore reducing the amount of
> power).  But, this is only good to a certain point.  Once you reach a
> point where you are overouthauling your sail so that it is as flat as a
> sheet of plywood, you then have eliminated any draft stability that
> your sail had, plus induced an increased amount of perimeter tension
> (in the leech) that can result in pullling your center of effort up
> higher on the sail (and since your rig is raked at an angle, therefore
> results in a COE/draft that has moved aft on your board).

> Each of the comments made in posting to this topic have all been
> correct, but relate to different circumstances for how a sailor would
> want his/her rig to perform.  Certain tuning techniques will typically
> work best some styles of sails and not for others.  I would definitely
> feel confortable sailing with less outhaul on a race or draft stable
> freeride sail, but I would not feel as comfortable sailing a wave or
> freestyle sail with less outhaul.  Certain styles of sails are designed
> to perform in specific ways, and it is helpful to be aware of these
> benefits.

> Thank you
> Pepi