by D. Whit » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:52:58
by Cliff Fros » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:19:40
I sailed one of these JPs in Maui last week for several days, mostly
on a 5.8. I thought the stock fin was not a total turkey, but also
not great. I could spin it out at will.
I liked the board a lot and I may get one, but the first thing
I'll do is put the stock fin in hiding somewhere. I bet you'd find
one of Wardog's fins would work wonders with it.
-Cliff
by Paul Braunbehren » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:57:25
by Bill Kli » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:09:38
http://www.gsport.com/charts.htm
Bill
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
by w.eckhar » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:17:29
These fins are extremely twisty, and for some reason give me a lot
more control in sharp turns. For freestyle it isn't real good (bites
during slides)
*-----------------------*
Posted at:
www.GroupSrv.com
*-----------------------*
by Bill Kli » Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:02
You can see the Curtis Freestyle fins at http://www.gsport.com/
The blue Elliptical fin that PWA King of the Carribean Champion Tonki Frans is
holding will settle the Freestyle question.
The the Curtis Freeride 28 or Surf 23 will settle the other issues if you do
not use dedicated Freestyle Fins. You will find that this fin makes freestyle
moves easier.
Web Pedrick won the first ever PWA Freestyle event on the Freeride 28
http://www.gsport.com/freeride.htm
The Curtis Surf 23 has been used successfully at the PWA Freestyle level as
well as for recreation in freestyle, higher wind and light wind waves. It is a
good onshore fin. http://www.gsport.com/surf.htm
You will find both of these designs to be fun in various conditions and virtual
spinout free
Best wishes,
Bill
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
by Urid » Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:12:34
They got cheap and cut corners here. Apparently this did not change
for 2004. Anyone know how the fins are for 2005?
by Bill Kli » Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:13:10
The JP, like most production boards need topnotch aftermarket fins for the
same reason they need top notch aftermarket rigs.
An incredible amount of effort goes into design and development of the best
aftermarket fins and rigs. Fin quivers and sail quivers with great boards like
the JP will help you rip and enjoy:)
This is a component industry,
1/3 board 1/3 rig 1/3 fin
Match the good stuff up. Its all time on water and zen after that:)
Bill
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
by Kevin K » Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:00:43
As far as the Freestyle Wave fins in particular, I actually like the
stock fins quite a bit. They aren't a lock and load type of fin, and
they require a little more finesse, but they are nice and turny and
don't get in the way when I want to make turns on swell. I'm only 160
lbs, and I generally don't ride the fin like I would on a slalom
setup, so if you're heavier and/or sail w/ more fin pressure, then a
larger, stiffer fin would be much better suited. I use the stock 25cm
fin on my FSW 84, and I actually use this same fin on the 98 instead
of the stock 29cm. If it's really windy, I'll put a Curtis Surf 22cm
in the 84 to quiet it down or I'll change down to my 76l board.
I also have a 2004 Super-X 82, and the stock fin for that board really
sucks, so I'll have to agree w/ y'all on this one.
The fins that came w/ my X-Cite Rides & Freestyle boards work fine
too, but I think that a lot of people would like these boards to come
w/ fins that are one size bigger.
When I was working at the shop, I'd always send demo boards out w/ an
aftermarket fin to enhance the ride of the boards and to match the fin
size to the sailors weight and ability. I think this is really
important, and it's really hard for a manufacturer to pick the right
size and style fin for everybody.
Would people prefer it if boards came w/o fins for a price reduction?
What kind of price reduction would make a difference?
kev
by Dan Weis » Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:20:00
The better answer for non-race boards would be to hook up with a top fin
manufacturer like Curtis or Select and work to supply one of those with each
new board. Mistral did this with great success over ten years ago with the
original Explosion. Chuck Ames made a very nice 16.5" racing fin to go with
each board that really transformed the purchase experience. Performance
right out of the box, if you will, with only a slight upcharge.
> As far as the Freestyle Wave fins in particular, I actually like the
> stock fins quite a bit. They aren't a lock and load type of fin, and
> they require a little more finesse, but they are nice and turny and
> don't get in the way when I want to make turns on swell. I'm only 160
> lbs, and I generally don't ride the fin like I would on a slalom
> setup, so if you're heavier and/or sail w/ more fin pressure, then a
> larger, stiffer fin would be much better suited. I use the stock 25cm
> fin on my FSW 84, and I actually use this same fin on the 98 instead
> of the stock 29cm. If it's really windy, I'll put a Curtis Surf 22cm
> in the 84 to quiet it down or I'll change down to my 76l board.
> I also have a 2004 Super-X 82, and the stock fin for that board really
> sucks, so I'll have to agree w/ y'all on this one.
> The fins that came w/ my X-Cite Rides & Freestyle boards work fine
> too, but I think that a lot of people would like these boards to come
> w/ fins that are one size bigger.
> When I was working at the shop, I'd always send demo boards out w/ an
> aftermarket fin to enhance the ride of the boards and to match the fin
> size to the sailors weight and ability. I think this is really
> important, and it's really hard for a manufacturer to pick the right
> size and style fin for everybody.
> Would people prefer it if boards came w/o fins for a price reduction?
> What kind of price reduction would make a difference?
> kev
by Alex Pa » Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:04:59
i'm not very particular about fins. most of the stock fins work
for me, but that's probably because i've never tried an expensive
fin and don't know what i'm missing.
naish boards used to supply 2 different sized fins with their wave boards.
if you can supply only 1 fin, maybe provide the option to the buyer to
select what size fin they want.
alex
--
>As far as the Freestyle Wave fins in particular, I actually like the
>stock fins quite a bit. They aren't a lock and load type of fin, and
>they require a little more finesse, but they are nice and turny and
>don't get in the way when I want to make turns on swell. I'm only 160
>lbs, and I generally don't ride the fin like I would on a slalom
>setup, so if you're heavier and/or sail w/ more fin pressure, then a
>larger, stiffer fin would be much better suited. I use the stock 25cm
>fin on my FSW 84, and I actually use this same fin on the 98 instead
>of the stock 29cm. If it's really windy, I'll put a Curtis Surf 22cm
>in the 84 to quiet it down or I'll change down to my 76l board.
>I also have a 2004 Super-X 82, and the stock fin for that board really
>sucks, so I'll have to agree w/ y'all on this one.
>The fins that came w/ my X-Cite Rides & Freestyle boards work fine
>too, but I think that a lot of people would like these boards to come
>w/ fins that are one size bigger.
>When I was working at the shop, I'd always send demo boards out w/ an
>aftermarket fin to enhance the ride of the boards and to match the fin
>size to the sailors weight and ability. I think this is really
>important, and it's really hard for a manufacturer to pick the right
>size and style fin for everybody.
>Would people prefer it if boards came w/o fins for a price reduction?
>What kind of price reduction would make a difference?
>kev
by Jeff Feeha » Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:18:52
i think most people will be happy if the stock fin is of at least
"acceptable" quality - in other words, not a piece of junk. most
stock fins meet this criterion. on wave, boards (i think especially
JP waves) a major problem is that the fins are often just too small
for recreational sailors in the conditions that are common at their
home launch. i think if you just make your wave fins a little bigger,
weekend sailors will ahve fewer problems, and will be enjoying the
board right out of the box. if your fin is a little too big, at least
you can sail. if it's too small, you end up slogging, drifting downwind,
missing the waves etc.
on the other hand, windsurf boards are pretty expensive - on the
order of US $1000-$1500. the marginal cost of upgrading to a really nice
fin - equivalent to a good aftermarket fin - is probably only about
US $50-75. i don't think many buyers choose one board over another because
of a $75 price difference. and anyway, with a good fin, they would know
that they woudl be getting something for their money.
i think that the problem would be one of marketing - even if the fin
was as good as a good aftermarket fin, people wouldn't believe it.
jeff feehan
> As far as the Freestyle Wave fins in particular, I actually like the
> stock fins quite a bit. They aren't a lock and load type of fin, and
> they require a little more finesse, but they are nice and turny and
> don't get in the way when I want to make turns on swell. I'm only 160
> lbs, and I generally don't ride the fin like I would on a slalom
> setup, so if you're heavier and/or sail w/ more fin pressure, then a
> larger, stiffer fin would be much better suited. I use the stock 25cm
> fin on my FSW 84, and I actually use this same fin on the 98 instead
> of the stock 29cm. If it's really windy, I'll put a Curtis Surf 22cm
> in the 84 to quiet it down or I'll change down to my 76l board.
> I also have a 2004 Super-X 82, and the stock fin for that board really
> sucks, so I'll have to agree w/ y'all on this one.
> The fins that came w/ my X-Cite Rides & Freestyle boards work fine
> too, but I think that a lot of people would like these boards to come
> w/ fins that are one size bigger.
> When I was working at the shop, I'd always send demo boards out w/ an
> aftermarket fin to enhance the ride of the boards and to match the fin
> size to the sailors weight and ability. I think this is really
> important, and it's really hard for a manufacturer to pick the right
> size and style fin for everybody.
> Would people prefer it if boards came w/o fins for a price reduction?
> What kind of price reduction would make a difference?
> kev
by Paul Braunbehren » Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:01:24
Even if the fin is too big or too small for any particular sailor, they
could still use it to extend the range of the board.
Another option would be too include a credit for the fin, or sell the
board without the fin. If you are buying locally from a store this
works fine, since you can also pick up a fin when you get the board and
hopefully they'll advise you well. However, if you mailorder this
stuff it makes it a little more complicated.
BTW, good sailing the other day, I hope we get some more wind this
afternoon.
by Tom - Chicag » Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:33:19
Great way to do business.
Tom - Chicago
> > The better answer for non-race boards would be to hook up with a top fin
> > manufacturer like Curtis or Select and work to supply one of those with
each
> > new board. Mistral did this with great success over ten years ago with
the
> > original Explosion. Chuck Ames made a very nice 16.5" racing fin to go
with
> > each board that really transformed the purchase experience. Performance
> > right out of the box, if you will, with only a slight upcharge.
> I agree with this. Also, when you demo a board, you would really know
> how it performs, and the manufacturer could select a fin that works
> well with the board.
> Even if the fin is too big or too small for any particular sailor, they
> could still use it to extend the range of the board.
> Another option would be too include a credit for the fin, or sell the
> board without the fin. If you are buying locally from a store this
> works fine, since you can also pick up a fin when you get the board and
> hopefully they'll advise you well. However, if you mailorder this
> stuff it makes it a little more complicated.
> BTW, good sailing the other day, I hope we get some more wind this
> afternoon.
by Bill Kli » Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:48:57
We absolutely have a vested interest as we do only fins. The biggest gain will
be that we can add more professional engineering and design to the field. We
can mature and in that process, serve you sailors better.
What about selling boards without fins? It is not likely you will get the fin
you need with the board as conditions vary and budget changes for fins with
boards are not likely.
Since the system is
1/3 Rig
1/3 Board
1/3 Fin
Why not have fin companies handle it?
If you buy boards from board companies, rigs from rig companies, why not fins
from fin companies?
Each specialty requires passion and absolute dedication to R&D and mfr
tolerance.
I can say we have invested tens of thousands in improved fin designs and
technologies. Many of these could be brought to market sooner if fin companies
were THE source for fins.
Why buy a fin from a board company? Let them do what they do best, boards.
The net gain here would be boards with far more range, smoother rides, more
time on the water.
Fins matched to board and rig make the whole system better. Plus, they are the
least expensive upgrade. Sailors of all skill levels note the change when using
the right fin.
The net result would be more organized fin quivers to match your sail and board
quivers. There is more economy and performance in matching components with
help from specialists. The best specialists understand the critical role rig
tuning and board selection bring to the overall equation.
More of you might actually save money and get more range than now.
When you start out with well tuned 1/3 board, 1/3 rig. 1/3 fin, you can
develop better skills far faster. Thus, s
Best wishes,
Bill Kline
Gorge Sport USA
Curtis Performance Fins, Orca Fins, Orca Kite Fins
Hood River, OR USA
www.gsport.com
ph/541 387 2649 fax/541 386 1715
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