Request for Comments on Madd 138

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by johnflorida9.. » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:14:27


I'm interested in the Madd 138 for fla***er sailing in sometimes-
shallow, gusty-with-lulls, inland Florida lakes, etc.  Most of the
time, our planing condition winds are 10-25 mph with gusts and lulls.
For marginal planing conditions, I use a Starboard GO 180 (100 cm
wide) with up to 11.x sails.  For what-I-call-higher winds, I plan to
use the Madd 138.  I am a beginning intermediate who weighs 165 pounds
with a height of 5 foot 10 inches but has relatively short legs (30"
trouser length).

My understanding of the Madd 138 is:

PROs:
1.  Turns on a dime (and gives nine cents change).
2.  A good learn-to-jibe board.
3.  A good learn-to-freestyle board.
4.  A good bump-and-jump board.
5.  Easy and forgivable in chop, etc.
6.  Goes upwind without any effort.
7.  Rarely spins out both fins - not unknown to spin out just one fin
(easy to recover from a one-fin spinout).
8.  Wave and Freestyle sailors often like this large (but very turny)
board, especially for low winds.

CONs:
1.  Not the quickest to plane, but still relatively quick to plane.
2.  Doesn't have the highest top speed, but only 1-2 mph off in a
typical drag race.
3.  Dents somewhat easily.
4.  Footstraps are placed too close together for a comfortable stance
- unless the straps are placed well inboard.  Is this a problem for
folks with 30" trouser inseams?
5.  Back foot loads up (Is this a technique issue - is there a
workaround?)
6.  Formula and wide board/big fin sailors often don't like such a
loose board.

QUESTIONS:
1.  Please answer any of the "embedded questions" (e.g., #4 & #5 cons)
that you wish to address.
2.  If you have a different view on any of the pros and cons, please
comment.
3.  What is the biggest sail that the board handles comfortably?  (The
specifications appear to indicate that it can handle a 10.5 meter sail
- with larger fins.  Is this size sail recommended?)
4.  At what wind speed would you recommend switching from the GO 180
to the Madd 138?  (Remember that the winds have a lot of gusts and
lulls.)
5.  Does the mast track have enough adjustment?
6.  How fragile is this board for a beginning intermediate to learn
how to jibe?
7.  What issues do you need to bring to my attention (that I've
neglected)?

I'm looking for information; not to start a flame war.  If you want to
give me some information than may be inflammatory, please feel free to
email me.

Thanks in advance for your contributions,

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by Erik » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:15:03

John, I wish I had answers to you 19 questions, but I don't really.
In fact I have a question, where in central FLA? I used to work there
and never saw a windsurfer, but I sure did see skiing.

A local fellow has the Madd 138; he uses it on our local lake and at
the OBX.  I have never felt that he was slow or at some kind of
disadvantage, but then again the sailor has a lot to do with it.  I
know that for our OBX sailing the shallow draft part is cool.
Sometimes it doesn't matter how it turns, where the straps are, or if
the graphics are cool.  If you have one 38cm fin versus two 30cm you
may never get planing without a .5 mile walk.  So if shallow is your
situation, then let that metric rule the show.

As far as the sail size, I bet it *CAN* carry a 10.5, but then again
I've ridden my Hypersonic 105L with a 10.1 sail just to prove a
point.  It does it, but why?  Stay on the GO with that big of a sail.

Lastly, I'm impressed with your post.  You really laid it out and said
tell me what you know!  I told you how little I know.

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by JSNT » Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:37:19

We have a MADD 135 (2006) and have sailed it in Florida (Gulf
coast/Panhandle both bays and waves) and SF (Bay and Rio only). Have sailed
it in everything from 7.2 in 10-12 mph to 4.0 in 40+. Very stable in any
config possibly because of the twinsers. Does good in flat water as well as
chest high waves in light air. Short but stable enough to up haul easily.
Jumpable with some practice.

Quote:
> 1.  Turns on a dime (and gives nine cents change).

Nah. Compared to a 250 liter long board yes but it's wide so you have to
finesse it if you really want to monkey jibe it or turn tight.

Quote:
> 2.  A good learn-to-jibe board.

True.But most boards in this range/category qualify as well.

Quote:
> 3.  A good learn-to-freestyle board.

Depends on the trick. Sail stuff yes. Board stuff no.

Quote:
> 4.  A good bump-and-jump board.

Depends on terrain/wind speed. Fine for light to moderate wind but a
narrower board would be more forgiving in 20+.

Quote:
> 5.  Easy and forgivable in chop, etc.

No. See above.

Quote:
> 6.  Goes upwind without any effort.

Exaggeration. This board has excellent upwind mobility thanks to the twin
pointers, but some effort is required.

Quote:
> 7.  Rarely spins out both fins - not unknown to spin out just one fin
> (easy to recover from a one-fin spinout).

Depends on sailing style/water conditions/fin/weeds etc.

Quote:
> 8.  Wave and Freestyle sailors often like this large (but very turny)
> board, especially for low winds.

Not this large. 115 liters is about as big as you can get and still throw
the board around.

Quote:

> CONs:
> 1.  Not the quickest to plane, but still relatively quick to plane.

True.

Quote:
> 2.  Doesn't have the highest top speed, but only 1-2 mph off in a
> typical drag race.

True, mainly because of the added resistance of the extra fin.

Quote:
> 3.  Dents somewhat easily.

Not true.

Quote:
> 4.  Footstraps are placed too close together for a comfortable stance

Not true.

Quote:
> - unless the straps are placed well inboard.  Is this a problem for
> folks with 30" trouser inseams?

Gurlie's inseam is less than that and she does fine.

Quote:
> 5.  Back foot loads up (Is this a technique issue - is there a
> workaround?

Sailing style dependant.

Quote:
> 6.  Formula and wide board/big fin sailors often don't like such a
> loose board.

This board is amazing loose on a wave with the right fin combo. In light
wind it tracks like a long board, in high wind, it can be pretty responsive
provided you apply the proper foot english.

Quote:
> 5.  Does the mast track have enough adjustment?

Plenty.

Quote:
> 6.  How fragile is this board for a beginning intermediate to learn
> how to jibe?

Not fragile. But split a pool noodle and velcro it to the front if you
worried about dinging the nose.

Hugh

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by johnflorida9.. » Sun, 10 Jun 2007 05:59:23


Quote:
> We have a MADD 135 (2006) and have sailed it in Florida (Gulf
> coast/Panhandle both bays and waves) and SF (Bay and Rio only). Have sailed
> it in everything from 7.2 in 10-12 mph to 4.0 in 40+. Very stable in any
> config possibly because of the twinsers. Does good in flat water as well as
> chest high waves in light air. Short but stable enough to up haul easily.
> Jumpable with some practice.

> > 1.  Turns on a dime (and gives nine cents change).

> Nah. Compared to a 250 liter long board yes but it's wide so you have to
> finesse it if you really want to monkey jibe it or turn tight.

> > 2.  A good learn-to-jibe board.

> True.But most boards in this range/category qualify as well.

> > 3.  A good learn-to-freestyle board.

> Depends on the trick. Sail stuff yes. Board stuff no.

> > 4.  A good bump-and-jump board.

> Depends on terrain/wind speed. Fine for light to moderate wind but a
> narrower board would be more forgiving in 20+.

> > 5.  Easy and forgivable in chop, etc.

> No. See above.

> > 6.  Goes upwind without any effort.

> Exaggeration. This board has excellent upwind mobility thanks to the twin
> pointers, but some effort is required.

> > 7.  Rarely spins out both fins - not unknown to spin out just one fin
> > (easy to recover from a one-fin spinout).

> Depends on sailing style/water conditions/fin/weeds etc.

> > 8.  Wave and Freestyle sailors often like this large (but very turny)
> > board, especially for low winds.

> Not this large. 115 liters is about as big as you can get and still throw
> the board around.

> > CONs:
> > 1.  Not the quickest to plane, but still relatively quick to plane.

> True.

> > 2.  Doesn't have the highest top speed, but only 1-2 mph off in a
> > typical drag race.

> True, mainly because of the added resistance of the extra fin.

> > 3.  Dents somewhat easily.

> Not true.

> > 4.  Footstraps are placed too close together for a comfortable stance

> Not true.

> > - unless the straps are placed well inboard.  Is this a problem for
> > folks with 30" trouser inseams?

> Gurlie's inseam is less than that and she does fine.

> > 5.  Back foot loads up (Is this a technique issue - is there a
> > workaround?

> Sailing style dependant.

> > 6.  Formula and wide board/big fin sailors often don't like such a
> > loose board.

> This board is amazing loose on a wave with the right fin combo. In light
> wind it tracks like a long board, in high wind, it can be pretty responsive
> provided you apply the proper foot english.

> > 5.  Does the mast track have enough adjustment?

> Plenty.

> > 6.  How fragile is this board for a beginning intermediate to learn
> > how to jibe?

> Not fragile. But split a pool noodle and velcro it to the front if you
> worried about dinging the nose.

> Hugh

Erik,
Thanks for taking the time to share what you knew about this board.

Hugh,
Thanks for the owner's perspective.  I especially appreciated your
"corrections".

Thanks again,
John

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by sailin foo » Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:30:49


Quote:

> > We have a MADD 135 (2006) and have sailed it in Florida (Gulf
> > coast/Panhandle both bays and waves) and SF (Bay and Rio only). Have sailed
> > it in everything from 7.2 in 10-12 mph to 4.0 in 40+. Very stable in any
> > config possibly because of the twinsers. Does good in flat water as well as
> > chest high waves in light air. Short but stable enough to up haul easily.
> > Jumpable with some practice.

> > > 1.  Turns on a dime (and gives nine cents change).

> > Nah. Compared to a 250 liter long board yes but it's wide so you have to
> > finesse it if you really want to monkey jibe it or turn tight.

> > > 2.  A good learn-to-jibe board.

> > True.But most boards in this range/category qualify as well.

> > > 3.  A good learn-to-freestyle board.

> > Depends on the trick. Sail stuff yes. Board stuff no.

> > > 4.  A good bump-and-jump board.

> > Depends on terrain/wind speed. Fine for light to moderate wind but a
> > narrower board would be more forgiving in 20+.

> > > 5.  Easy and forgivable in chop, etc.

> > No. See above.

> > > 6.  Goes upwind without any effort.

> > Exaggeration. This board has excellent upwind mobility thanks to the twin
> > pointers, but some effort is required.

> > > 7.  Rarely spins out both fins - not unknown to spin out just one fin
> > > (easy to recover from a one-fin spinout).

> > Depends on sailing style/water conditions/fin/weeds etc.

> > > 8.  Wave and Freestyle sailors often like this large (but very turny)
> > > board, especially for low winds.

> > Not this large. 115 liters is about as big as you can get and still throw
> > the board around.

> > > CONs:
> > > 1.  Not the quickest to plane, but still relatively quick to plane.

> > True.

> > > 2.  Doesn't have the highest top speed, but only 1-2 mph off in a
> > > typical drag race.

> > True, mainly because of the added resistance of the extra fin.

> > > 3.  Dents somewhat easily.

> > Not true.

> > > 4.  Footstraps are placed too close together for a comfortable stance

> > Not true.

> > > - unless the straps are placed well inboard.  Is this a problem for
> > > folks with 30" trouser inseams?

> > Gurlie's inseam is less than that and she does fine.

> > > 5.  Back foot loads up (Is this a technique issue - is there a
> > > workaround?

> > Sailing style dependant.

> > > 6.  Formula and wide board/big fin sailors often don't like such a
> > > loose board.

> > This board is amazing loose on a wave with the right fin combo. In light
> > wind it tracks like a long board, in high wind, it can be pretty responsive
> > provided you apply the proper foot english.

> > > 5.  Does the mast track have enough adjustment?

> > Plenty.

> > > 6.  How fragile is this board for a beginning intermediate to learn
> > > how to jibe?

> > Not fragile. But split a pool noodle and velcro it to the front if you
> > worried about dinging the nose.

> > Hugh

> Erik,
> Thanks for taking the time to share what you knew about this board.

> Hugh,
> Thanks for the owner's perspective.  I especially appreciated your
> "corrections".

> Thanks again,
> John

I have to start out by saying I am biased since I work for HiFly/
Chinook. That said I think some of the comparisons with the 135 have
been improved upon in the 138. It has a narrower tail & more rail
curve which gives it a bit looser feel than the 135. Also Hugh, I
think if you compare it to other boards in its size range, it jibes
significantly more like a smaller board. Also the twinsers & narrower
tail make it much easier to hold onto in overpowering conditions.
Otherwise I agree with everything stated above.

my .02
Caleb

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by bret » Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:56:09

You're about right.

All comments about handling must be relitive to other freeride boards in the
130 to 145 liter range - some of us would say "turn on a dime" and
"freestyle" only apply to much smaller boards, but yes, for it's size it is
a damn nice ride, has wide sail range, and handles well on most points of
sail.  The consruction quality, pads, and footraps are second to none - good
stuff.

 
 
 

Request for Comments on Madd 138

Post by marc rose » Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:40:07

Hello John,
I'd like to chime in too, taking some influence from Hugh's and
Caleb's responses;
I 'm a demo rep for HifLy locally in Maryland but I chose to ride Hi/
fly a few years back and really love the boards. In my demo quiver I
have the MADDS 162 and 138, plus the FREE 142 and 156.  I sail the
larger MADD most of the time but step down to the 138 before I even
think about using the FREE boards.  I have discovered during drag
races that the 138 gets planing earlier but it has topped out before
other boards.  I can make most of my jibes on it - or at least I could
last year. (This year I must have lost some dexterity or balance
because I have not made any jibes yet, but that's another story)
Unless your running weeders you might notice the board crabbing
(Thanks Dog, for that addition to my vocabulary) if it picks up
grasses.  This may also seem subjective but I get better top speed
with longer weedeers than I do with the stock fins.   The board plows
through chop very well for me but about half of the demoers complian
that it doesn't
  I like to sail my board with straps back and out, and a few of my
demoers complained that that is too far out for them and move them in
and forward.  So, you results may vary  The board points upwind nicely
and I really ike that I can sail it back home when shlogging after the
wind drops
Compared to other boards I've owned,  the MADDS- HiFly's in general-
are very sound boards.  They don't dent like the others.  I've seen a
lot of mast hits on the noses from demoers and few of my own and
what's evident are some "egshell like crushes", but not deep dents.
The boards are really built strong.
Anyway, that's my view of the board.  Hope you get to try one because
I think you'd like it.

Marc