Sport Today

by **Jonathan M Richards** » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I remember when people used to call some windsurfing sails
"fat-heads." I'm not sure what the goal of the design was at the time,
but the sails looked approximately like the new sails, particularly
like the new Aerotech's. The real question is: are these sails a fad
or have they really changed the sport for good?

I have heard about "punchy" (*) wave sails that feature a longer boom
length. Not so long ago I heard that short boom lengths are a feature
that wave sailors like.

The current trend is toward larger sails that can be sailed in higher
winds. An alternative would be smaller sails that can be sailed in
lighter winds. Perhaps this will be next year's offering.

I had a nice session yesterday on my 1987 9'0" Seatrend sailed with an
old-fashioned smallish fin and a ~1993 Waddel 6.2 race sail. I noticed
several older boards and sails out on the water. One guy was on a
newer extreme no-nose board and larger, more-recent sail. He was
hardly any faster than I was and I'm sure that my board was more
maneuverable. He could easily out-point me, though!

Someday I will have to try out some new equipment and see where the
state of the art has taken us. Have we reached the moon yet or are we
still circling the earth?

-Jonathan (US233)

(*) Quoted from Windsurfing Magazine.

by **WARDO** » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> I remember when people used to call some windsurfing sails
> "fat-heads."

I remember when people used to call some windsurfing sails
"pin-heads"......
Your point is?..........

Quote:

> I'm not sure what the goal of the design was at the time,

Did you bother to find out?

Quote:

> but the sails looked approximately like the new sails, particularly
> like the new Aerotech's. The real question is: are these sails a fad
> or have they really changed the sport for good?

Nope, just a fad......like these new footstrap dillies, clamp-on booms, 2
piece masts,
harnesses, etc..........

Quote:

> approximately like the new sails

Bro, Neanderthal men look "approximately" like modern man,some men look
"approximately" like women (and vice -versa), old computers look
"approximately" like new computers..........what's up with approximately!
Sailmakers, board builders, and accessories manufacturers work their
collective arses off
to continually improve our sport, and you know what? NONE OF THEM ARE
GETTING RICH!!! THEY DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT!!!!
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!! I mean geezus, how hard is it to try something new?

Quote:

> The real question is: are these sails a fad
> or have they really changed the sport for good?

Hell yes!!! they have changed the sport for good........If I had to sail
on the ***you are sailing on (knowing what I know now) I would quit.
Lighter, stronger, less wear and tear on your body, more efficient, from
my experience, every two years, there is a significant
improvement in equipment that necessitates some gear replacement.....IF
(big if) you want to continue to progress in this sport. If
not........it's all approximately the same,
I mean if you are just doing figure 8's on a lake with blinders, face
shield , P.F.D.,
helmet and gloves on racing your buddies with the same antiquated gear,
trying to rationalize your gear is still O.K. as you pass a wave sailor
that might be on current gear,
and just happened to be there teaching his girlfriend or kids how to sail,
and that is your big thrill.........hey, continue to blow the dust off
your crap, year after year after year.

Quote:

> I have heard about "punchy" (*) wave sails that feature a longer boom
> length. Not so long ago I heard that short boom lengths are a feature
> that wave sailors like.

I personally don't know any wave sailors that like a long boom......we
like "low end"
in our sails (to make it out through the surf) and we like them to depower
when we want (maneuverability on the wave face).............that is where
the sailmaking wizards have taken us.

Quote:

> The current trend is toward larger sails that can be sailed in higher
> winds. An alternative would be smaller sails that can be sailed in
> lighter winds. Perhaps this will be next year's offering.

The current trend is more rangeability in your sails......more
efficiency...more draft stability..did I forget to say "MO
FUN"...........less Advil and time rigging up and rigging down and rigging
up and rigging down..........Oh , and more time on the water too!!!!

Quote:

> I had a nice session yesterday on my 1987 9'0" Seatrend sailed with an
> old-fashioned smallish fin and a ~1993 Waddel 6.2 race sail. I noticed
> several older boards and sails out on the water. One guy was on a
> newer extreme no-nose board and larger, more-recent sail. He was
> hardly any faster than I was and I'm sure that my board was more
> maneuverable. He could easily out-point me, though!

He was probably a hell of a lot better sailor than you were!!!!

Quote:

> Someday I will have to try out some new equipment and see where the
> state of the art has taken us. Have we reached the moon yet or are we
> still circling the earth?

Maybe in the next millenium? Buddy, we reached the moon (several times)and
now we are putting John Glenn back into space!

Quote:

> -Jonathan (US233)

WARDOG (BOWWOW)

Quote:

> (*) Quoted from Windsurfing Magazine.

Shit howdy!!! The emperor of World Publications has no clothes
on.......That rag does not represent the sport as I (and many other
sailors) know it!!!.
Honestly US233, do yourself a favor and try something new in 1999.........

when you are laying on a cold marble slab with a number around your big
toe, zipped up
in a body bag, you don't just hop up and exclaim "Wait! I want another
chance to try out some of that new-fangled windglider stuff!!!!" Just do
it! (Before it's too late!!!).
You get out of the sport what you put into it!!!! (or you should get out
of the sport).

by **Jonathan M Richards** » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

(paraphrased)

"Bwaaaaa, change yer gear every two years! Waaaa, you're not sailing
on the latest! If you're not on new gear you probably suck!"

Give be a break.

Here's a response I got by email:

Hi Jonathan,

I read your email and found your thoughts similar to mine.

My sailing buddy and I used to race each other all the time. Using a
1988 TCC 8.1m sail against a 1997 North Pyro 8.5m sail I was able to
maintain my edge against him. In terms of skill we both rank at the
same level so that is not the reason why there was no perceivable
difference.

In terms of sail development, I suspect the no floating heads may
actually be as a result of the need to get bigger sails on smaller
masts to save on the cost of upgrading booms and masts to take larger
sails.

I am also wondering if there might be a trend with some of these
freestyle sails towards low-end oriented sails. These sails would
provide great low end grunt but get overpowered easier then modern
large sails.

Although I use large sails I really wouldn't mind owing two 6.7m sails
instead. One for underpowered conditions (equivalent to a new 8.0m
sail) and another 6.7m sail for overpowered conditions.

~Jamie N

[end email]

-Jonathan.

by **Dimitar Bojantch** » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

.....

Quote:

>Hi Jonathan,

>I read your email and found your thoughts similar to mine.

>My sailing buddy and I used to race each other all the time. Using a
>1988 TCC 8.1m sail against a 1997 North Pyro 8.5m sail I was able to
>maintain my edge against him. In terms of skill we both rank at the
>same level so that is not the reason why there was no perceivable
>difference.

Driving to work this morning I noticed a 1938 Packard and a 1957 Chevy
that were keeping fine with traffic... That fact alone may throw many
into questoning where have the last 40-60 years of progress gone?
IMO, utilizing a 1987 sail for anything other than three knot longboarding
falls somewhere between mildly cool and mildly stupid...

D.

--
===============================================================================

Pontix Consulting, Inc. http://www.pontix.com/
Personal Info http://www.pontix.com/dimitar

by **Roger Nightingal** » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

If you think old "crap" is no fun, then you sail for the wrong reasons
(IMHO). Sailing, for me, was 99.9% of maximum possible fun factor in
1988. Since then its improved to 99.95%. So much for technology . . .
unless you prefer having stuff to using it.

Roger

Quote:

> > The real question is: are these sails a fad
> > or have they really changed the sport for good?

> Hell yes!!! they have changed the sport for good........If I had to
> sail on the ***you are sailing on (knowing what I know now) I
> would quit. Lighter, stronger, less wear and tear on your body, more
> efficient, from my experience, every two years, there is a
> significant
> improvement in equipment that necessitates some gear
> replacement.....IF (big if) you want to continue to progress in this
> sport. If not........it's all approximately the same,

snip

Quote:

> .........hey, continue to blow the
> dust off your crap, year after year after year.

--
Roger Nightingale
Duke University
Department of Biomedical Engineering

by **Weed F** » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

WARDOG writes......

<<<Some wavesailors figured this out 3 years ago....I did...wide-nosed boards
carry
momentum when you are trying to punch out through breaking waves instead of
coming
to a screaching halt so you can get drilled.....ever try to "bob" or hula hoop
a
no-nose
elf nose in light air or holey conditions? NOT FUN! You have to be smart
enough
to
go to a custom board builder to get a no-compromise fine-tuned board.>>>

I agree with you 100%. This is geared to mostly bump&jump sailing. Ten years
ago one
of my favorite summer boards was an 8'10' Wind&Surf winger pintail. I tried the
no-nose
epoxy wave boards (bump&jump), didn't like
them. I bounced around to much for my style
of sailing.

This past winter I had Richie Buhien <sp> make me another old style 8'10"
winger pintail
for this summer. I love it. It sticks to the chop
like glue and is very easy to jump. With the no-nose I just didn't feel
comfortable jumping
with that style. I have gone back ten years in time, and I am quite pleased.
This board works great at about 25 mph.

Also in 1987 I was using Neil Pryde speed sails all the way down to 4.2. On the
smaller
speed sails I was getting ultimate hang time.
Maybe the manufacturer's will be making ultimate bump&jump hang time sails in
the near future.

Ed D.

by **WARDO** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> (paraphrased)

> "Bwaaaaa, change yer gear every two years! Waaaa, you're not sailing
> on the latest! If you're not on new gear you probably suck!"

No, I'm saying if you are on a 1987 9'0" Seatrend in 1998 you probably
suck!
Especially if you are asking if any of this "new gear" is any better than
your museum pieces. Your beloved "Windsurfing" rag tells you to buy new
gear from the "Big Three"
Euro Windsurf Mafia every year.....I said

Quote:

> from my experience, every two years, there is a significant
> improvement in equipment that necessitates some gear replacement.....IF (big if) you want to continue to progress in this sport. If not........it's all approximately the
> same,

Then you quoted your buddy Jamie:

Quote:

> My sailing buddy and I used to race each other all the time. Using a
> 1988 TCC 8.1m sail against a 1997 North Pyro 8.5m sail I was able to
> maintain my edge against him. In terms of skill we both rank at the
> same level so that is not the reason why there was no perceivable
> difference.

Draft stability, riggability, jibeability, going to weather, swing
weight........tugging on your back arm, efficiency...none of this has
changed? What about masts,battens, boards, fins, booms,and
conditions? I have been sailing since 1980 and surfing since 1969 so
I have seen and experienced a few changes in gear.......The gear was so
sh*tty then, almost every time you went out in the surf you had a
breakdown. Crawl out of your cave , watch a modern video, go to a demo day
event, ask a buddy to borrow their newer stuff...
problem is "ignorance is bliss".....once you know you can't go
back...maybe that is your fear?

Quote:

> In terms of sail development, I suspect the no floating heads may
> actually be as a result of the need to get bigger sails on smaller
> masts to save on the cost of upgrading booms and masts to take larger
> sails.

Truncated heads were not developed to save $$$ on masts and booms (that is
a benefit though) , they were developed because they are faster on all
points of sail...especially at the low end and they accomplished it
without losing top end under load.

Quote:

> I am also wondering if there might be a trend with some of these
> freestyle sails towards low-end oriented sails. These sails would
> provide great low end grunt but get overpowered easier then modern
> large sails.

Technology trickles down into the low-end recreational market. The
cheapest stuff on the market today is sooooo much better than the high-end
stuff of yesteryear.

Quote:

> Although I use large sails I really wouldn't mind owing two 6.7m sails
> instead. One for underpowered conditions (equivalent to a new 8.0m
> sail) and another 6.7m sail for overpowered conditions.

One new sail should accomplish that easily. Spend some time to educate
yourself....
Face the music, confront your fear......it's only money!

by **WARDO** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Again, quoting from my original post:

Quote:

> from my experience, every two years, there is a significant
> improvement in equipment that necessitates some gear replacement

I said SOME not ALL!
Particularly, if you sail in the surf as much as I do.......
Not just wear and tear either.......the discipline of wavesailing is more
demanding of performance oriented gear than slalom figure 8's......Wavesailing is
3D with aerials......
Wave gear is very fine-tuned for local surf sailing conditions. We don't like to
be over-powered on the wave face going down the line.....we make radical short
radius direction changes...we also need to be able to shlog out through breaking
waves and/or
clear big waves with even bigger jumps or aerial manuevers. To this end , I think
the biggest changes in gear the last couple of years has been aimed at this genre.

Quote:

> Hold onto your shorts though, cauze here come the new wide nosed boards.

Some wavesailors figured this out 3 years ago....I did...wide-nosed boards carry
momentum when you are trying to punch out through breaking waves instead of coming
to a screaching halt so you can get drilled.....ever try to "bob" or hula hoop a
no-nose
elf nose in light air or holey conditions? NOT FUN! You have to be smart enough
to
go to a custom board builder to get a no-compromise fine-tuned board.
To get what you need you got to know what you need. Reading reviews in the
magazines is like the tail wagging the dog. Some boards and sails even get
"tested" without ever having footstraps installed and window wrap still in place
never rigged up.

It is the best of times to be a windsurfer....the gear right now is the best it
has ever been, but not the best it will ever be!!!!

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