Sport Today

Thanks in part to this group I think I may have finally sorted out my
gear. I now have two boards and three sails;

2002 Starboard FF168 used with 8.5 2 cam and 7.0 raf sails
1996 Screamer 278 used with 5.9 raf and 7.0 raf
80 kg 40 year old with nearly 4 years experience

The Screamer and 5.9 are a relatively recent delve into "high" wind
sailing and have generally taken my whole windsurfing experience and
enjoyment to a new level. But I am finding waterstarts are making
progress very slowly and jibing not at all.

My problems are:

1. I can sometimes fly the sail and I can pretty well always do any
kind of beachstart. I can even drop off my board in deep water and get
up again. I just can't put it all together. I'm thinking of either
getting a PDF or one of those "Waterstarter" boom devices. My lack of
waterstarting ability is starting to kill my small board enjoyment and
I don't want to get too discouraged.

2. I can't get around on the screamer without falling off. Luckily my
spot has a shore at each side so I often fall where I can touch bottom.
Should I be looking at some kind of fast tack to get around in any wind
conditions? Or do I just need to put everyting into each jibe attempt
until I get round, planing or not I'm not fussy.

Any general advice appreciated.

regards,

rod

But you didn't explain why you can't fly the sail.  Are you talking about
the 8.5???  or the 5.9 and the 7.0 on the screamer?  Flying the sail is key
in waterstarts.  I'm assuming since you can get on from the beach, you have
learned to pull the board under you with your rear foot and how to prevent
"rounding up".  If not, these are other things you will need to learn.

So what sail are you talking about, and what is the problem in flying the
sail?

And yes, PFD will aid in your learning to waterstart, or a full wetsuit for
that matter....

--
John Lechmanik

To reply directly remember to remove the NOSPAM from my address.

Mike L.

Sometimes I might manage to fly the sail but then lose it while trying
to align the board.
Sometimes I get the sail halfway up and the clew catches.
Other times if the wind is gusty I might manage to get into position to
get up but then can't keep the sail out of the water for lack of
pressure.
Once I have gone through two or three failed attemps I start to lose
strength and form and then can't even get the sail a little out of the
water. I tried a recent suggestion of draging the boom over the forearm
but found it put the front of the boom soo high that the clew just
wouldn't clear.

I guess it's not one particular aspect, just a series of mistakes that
lead to failed attempts. Thats why I though something like a PDF or
waterstarting device would give me some room for error rather than
trying to fix any specific aspect of the process.

I know I will eventually get there but it would be nice to make it
easier and not so frustrating.

regards,

rod

The way I see it, "the Waterstarter" is not only a crutch, it could be
downright dangerous. Anyone, please look at the picture of the dude swimming
after the rig, and predict what could go wrong.... at least, in open waters
with strong gusty winds:
http://www.waterstarter.com
to me, this seems like an incident waiting to happen. At least with a
half-submerged sail, it's there, when/where you expect it to be..which could
be life-saving in extreme cases.

Mike L.

First off, all your sails are pretty big.  A 7.0 and an 8.5 can be a
bear to waterstart, especially if you don't really know what you're
doing yet.  The further the clew from the mast, the easier it is to
drop it in the drink.  Practice your waterstarts on days when you are
overpowered on the 5.9.  Waterstarts are learned by doing.  Not getting
up out of the water, means you aren't learning all that much.  This is
why being overpowered helps.  It allows you to do the waterstart
imperfectly but still put all the pieces together, until you get better
and better at it.

Second, go slow.  First part of the waterstart is getting all your gear
in the right position.  Take your time, get it right, because a
shortcut here will bite you later.  Once you have the gear in position,
you need to fly the clew.  Someone asked about this recently, there
were some really good suggestions, read them.  Again, take your time.
Once the clew is flying, the board will probably have moved into an
improper position.  You need to learn to balance the sail in this
position, getting very comfortable with just holding this stance.  At
this point you can move the board by going forward or backward.  Play
with how the wind is catching the sail, and how you can use this to
move the board.  You can play with this on a beach start to get the
hang of it first.

Ok, now it's time to pull the board under your ass.  Not get out of the
water, but basically, all you really need to do, is get the board under
you, and again, go slow, and let the wind do it for you.  Don't pull on
the boom.  There's lots of advice on this, but basically you want to
push the boom up (well, that's what it feels like).  Also, make sure
you take the time to put your foot far enough on the board, near the
centerline.  I used to round up all the time here, because my foot was
on the rail.

Don't get discouraged.  Just take your time at each step along the way,
and you'll get it no problem.  I also highly recommend taking a lesson
if you can swing it.

Another way of progressing is just trying to analyze the difference
between your successful moves and unsuccessful ones. When something
goes right for me (or wrong), I try to reconstruct it in my mind and
figure out what the culprit was. Doesn't always help, but I have
achieved occasional breakthroughs like that.

The big thing is, obviously, time on the water. Just keep doing it,
even if it's not working. Keep doing something! For example, I found
that the pivot jibes that I did in light wind eventually helped me
quite a bit when learning carve jibes. Other silly and seemingly
unnecessary things, like sail-body-360, helitacks, sail-360, etc
generally help with developing sail balance and board balance. Keep
challenging yourself, even in light winds, and you will eventually be
successful at both waterstarts and jibes.

I've been sailing for just 1.5 years, but I try to get at least a
couple of days each week and will keep playing in the water even in
5kts of wind (again, DOING stuff, not just slowly going back and
forth!). Waterstarts are not a problem at this time and my jibing on a
bigger board is pretty consistent right now (even though planing out is
sporadic). Smaller board (98 liters) is slightly harder, but also
getting there.

For jibes, I can also suggest Dasher's video. I watched Peter Hart's
and was practicing for a few months, but then I watched Dasher's "12
steps" and it all came together. Things suddenly started clicking.
Maybe his waterstarting video is as good, but I didn't see it
(fortunately, waterstarts seem to be much easier than carve jibes).

I guess I was thinking someone might say something like....I found
waterstarting difficult
and a PDF was a lifesaver, no pun intended.

This waterstarting thing really hit home yesterday when I went to a
fresh water lake with shear sides for the first
time with the screamer and 5.9.
The combination of no possible beachstarts with the lesser boyancy of
fresh water really made things difficult. I'd read
about fresh water not having as much float but was surprised just how
much.

This is what I would recommend until you get better:

First swim the mast around so it is perpendicular to the wind. Then go
to the tip of the mast and lift it up a bit. Now SLOWLY work your way up
the mast. If you go very SLOWLY the wind will do the work for you. If
you go too fast your will sink the clew. Try it in shallow water until
you get the hang of it. Slow is the key.

You will learn much quicker if you can practice your waterstarts in
shallow water. If you are drifting out too deep, just walk the board
back to shallower water.

In deep water a PDF will make things easier.

I still have some problems with my waterstarts, but at least I know why :-)
And the 12 step jibe video has actualy changed my jibe rate from 0% to about
50% in only a few sessions.

It might also be a good idea to practice waterstarts with your bigger board,
using the small sail on flat water. At least you know you'll make it home
then.

Videos can be bought at
http://www.sideoff.com/scripts/shopplus.cgi?DN=sideoff.com&CARTID=208...

--
Helge

After you get a few, (and you will) this will all be a distant memory, and
you'll wonder why you had so much trouble.

Good luck, as has been mentioned here, if you could just get someone on the
beach to give you the appropriate tips
at the appropriate time, you'd pop right up.

-Craig

Definitely try a PFD.    At this stage in your waterstart learning,  it
will save you so much energy in clearing the
sail that you will be able to get much more time on the water before
you are worn out.   Especially if you are
a person with low natural bouyancy,  the PFD will allow you to clear
the sail easily.   Once you've got the sail
flying, experiment with just floating on your back and t*** the
sail to the wind and using your feet and
sail position to keep the board bearing off the wind in the proper
start position.

Sail size:  A 5.9 is perfect for the screamer.   A 7.0 is probably too
big for that board.  At least on my screamer,  I've
never been able to get a 7.0 to feel at all comfortable.

Tacking a Screamer:  At your size you should be able to tack the
screamer;  not  difficult and a fun and
needed move.  Easier than a planing jibe.   The key is to be very quick
around the mast.  Don't spend any time
at all in front of the mast and make quick steps close to the
center-line of the board.  As you get to the other
side of the board you need to be moving the mast forward in the same
motion for counter balance.

The short board tack is great when you find yourself without enough
wind to jibe.  

Hope this helps and good luck,
Tom W.

Imagine you are lying on the ground on your back and someone tries to
help you get up by grabbing your hands and pulling you up. You can make
it very difficult for him by keeping your hands close to your body and
lying there like a dead weight .. or .. you can make it much easier for
him by extending your arms, bending you knees to slide your body weight
close to him, and then using your forward momentum to step up straight.

The sail is just a helping hand. In the water you can also kick with
your free foot for even more boost when stepping onto the board.

One other thing. Some people put both feet on the board and wait for a
big gust to pull them up. The trouble with this is the board starts
moving forward and downwind and you then need more wind to get you up.