No-Nose Boards

No-Nose Boards

Post by Lex_Oliem » Sun, 16 Apr 1995 04:00:00


I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on my
technique to enjoy the new shapes.
Paul
 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by WILLD » Sun, 16 Apr 1995 04:00:00

I've been riding asymetrical wave boards for the last 10 years and just
switched last year to "no nose" boards and I find the change both dramatic
and awesome!! Here on the central coast of california they work just
great!! ask (ex) brian caserio..

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Avery » Mon, 17 Apr 1995 04:00:00

: I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
: waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on
: my technique to enjoy the new shapes.
: Paul

I found that my no-nose works best for slalom sailing.  It always seemed
ok for jumping and jibing, until I rode a board with a thinner tail.
I noticed with a thinner tail I felt more comfortable turning and jumping,
but it took much longer to get on a plane.  In fact, with the same sail as
I used on my no-nose, I couldn't get planning at all on the thinner tail
board.  The parts I like most about the no-nose are the tucked rails up
front and lots of nose rocker.  I don't think I would want an extreme
no-nose for wave sailing, a thinner tail gives a lot more maneuverability
IMHO.  The new gorge animals (no-nose) are fun to ride, very easy to
"steer" and jump... especially the bonzer board!  I'm not sure what to
think about the flat rocker in back on the no-nose, it seems faster..??
The wide back is cool, but the dome kinda sucks for control in chop and
jibes IMHO.  Over-all I like my no-nose better in "most" conditions.  
The first time I rode my no-nose it seemed awkward, it took me a month
or so to get comfortable.  Kinda like getting new shoes, they're much
higher off the ground and you tend to bounce when you walk.
-Ave

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by wolfgang sorg » Mon, 17 Apr 1995 04:00:00

IMHO, properly designed no-noses work well in conditions they are made for
and for riders they are made for. But they require a totally different
sailing style: You don't hang from the boom, you stand OVER the board,
harness lines way shorter than on old style boards. Jibes and turns
require active determination of the radius (big advantage for me:
the board does what I want it to do, not what the designer built in the
rocker line).
Controll in extremly choppy conditions may be harder, especially if the board
has a thick tail with hard rails. Best thing is to switch to a smaller board then,
or look for something with a thinn (but not necessarily narrow) tail with
soft rails in first place. The F2 wave 255 is a good example: It rides as smooth
and is as turny as my 250 custom wave (trad. design), despite it has more
volume, earlier planning and more speed.

You also want to use stable, short boomed sails on no-nose boards, the main reason
why no-noses did not come up earlier than 93 is that the pre 92 sails were too
unstable.

In short: I like no noses, but I think the extremes are only (very) good for
racing. For recreation and waves don't overdo it !
Hang loose !  


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Soergel, grad. Student of electrical engineering at Clemson University
220 Elm Street # 122, Clemson, S.C. 29631, Phone: (803) 654-0930
...............................................................................
5000 miles away from home :-) and my boards :-(.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Cruiser4 » Mon, 17 Apr 1995 04:00:00

Better than the "no- nose" is the "no-tail" boards. With the soft rails
and the flat nose, and a lot of tail rocker. They really shred the waves!
 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Colas Nahab » Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:00:00


writes:
|> I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
|> waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on my
|> |> technique to enjoy the new shapes.

My opinion: no-nose wave boards are *FUN* and fast. they keep speed in
turns and you can actually accelerate in turns. Old-style boards were
turned a bit more by sinking the tail in the water and turn, thus reducing
speed during turns. Turning with full rail in the water was possible but
tricky as you were "locked" in the "natural" turn radius of the board
(which makes Craig Masonville turns something really awesome). With new
boards it is much easier to adjust your turns in mid-manoeuver. And
punching through whitewater is much easier with the added speed and front
rockers of nearly one foot!

But: in "gnarly" conditions, old boards are easier to handle. In scary
waves it is easy to play it safe with the old boards... just sink the tail.

So I'd say, new boards allows you to have fun in slow/small/mushy waves,
the board gives you speed that the wave hasn't. For a country with "real"
waves, well... I dont know and I'd rather be surfing :-)

--

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Blaine Sawyer-HO-77163A(HOH1 » Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:00:00


Quote:


>writes:
>|> I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
>|> waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on my
>|> |> technique to enjoy the new shapes.

>My opinion: no-nose wave boards are *FUN* and fast. they keep speed in
>turns and you can actually accelerate in turns. Old-style boards were
>turned a bit more by sinking the tail in the water and turn, thus reducing
>speed during turns. Turning with full rail in the water was possible but
>tricky as you were "locked" in the "natural" turn radius of the board
>(which makes Craig Masonville turns something really awesome). With new
>boards it is much easier to adjust your turns in mid-manoeuver. And
>punching through whitewater is much easier with the added speed and front
>rockers of nearly one foot!

>But: in "gnarly" conditions, old boards are easier to handle. In scary
>waves it is easy to play it safe with the old boards... just sink the tail.

I can understand the reasoning for having all that volume in the
tail of a no-nose race board:  better upwind and downwind performance.
But for recreational boards, a no-nose should have that extra
volume at the wide point rather than the tail.  A rather sinky
tail gives the board more high-end range for us recreational
sailors.  When the wind lulls, you can move slightly forward
and make use of that extra volume, with the option of staying
in your harness and using a foot pad or block to provide out-
of-footstrap stability.

I like the Greenough board in Windsurfing Mag's equipment guide
issue.  It has no foam in the tail, and that tail has a long foot
block that starts underneath the back strap and tapers forward along
the centerline almost to the mast foot.  Yep, that's weird stuff and,
yes, it definitely works.  The hull bottom is the key to that board;
too bad you can't see it in the picture.  Check it out.

Quote:

>So I'd say, new boards allows you to have fun in slow/small/mushy waves,
>the board gives you speed that the wave hasn't. For a country with "real"
>waves, well... I dont know and I'd rather be surfing :-)

>--


--
___________________
Blane Sawyer
New Jersey USA

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Colas Nahab » Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
Sawyer-HO-77163A(HOH177)1063) writes:

|> I can understand the reasoning for having all that volume in the
|> tail of a no-nose race board:

no-nose wave boards dont have the volume in the tail that the no-nose
slalom boards have. their rails are still very thin, except for some weird
designs such as the tiga 254. In fact "no-nose" for a wave board is more
in the outline and rocker (flat tail rocker, tons of front rocker).

BUT: another design feature is to have "domed" decks, allowing more
volume for non-planing outgoing while still retaining very thin rails for
down-the rail bites.

also, wave boards have had their width greatly reduced (nearly 2") so
maybe the tail may seem wider to you but in fact there is some visual
impression due to the reduced main width.

Quote:
> A rather sinky
> tail gives the board more high-end range for us recreational
> sailors.

well, good modern boards often handle wind chop much better (old big
noses could plunder through chop), so in waves with high winds and often
choppy faces the new ones are in fact safer. previously you could bump
into a chop on the wave face and could spin out as a result, something that
was avoided by sinking the tail, but reducing speed.

Quote:
> I like the Greenough board in Windsurfing Mag's
> Yep, that's weird stuff and, yes, it definitely works.

mmm... I have seen a lot of GG boards, windsurfers and before that
kneeboards before he learnt windsurfing. I never saw him any picture of
him turning on a wave, only down-the-line and jibes. Here also some shaper
went weird with ultra-thin tails, but it was just a fad. For it to work
you must enter all your turns at full speed.

Try to demo a modern wave board.

--

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Craig Goud » Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
>waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on my
>technique to enjoy the new shapes.
>Paul

I don't like them either.  I find them unpleasant in bump and jump conditions.
They don't pull off a nice carved jibe (it's more of a snap jibe) and I just
can't seem to get enough control at speed in chop to go for a very big jump.
I also find them harder to reattach after a spin out (it's not the skeg, it's
the board).  I think having the thicher tail and the wide point aft makes them
more unstable than a classic shape.  Everyone I know who rides them runs the
mast track forward of center (sometimes as far forward as it will go) even
with small sails.  I believe they're compensating for the instability by
trying to move the force vectors closer to the nose (trying to correct for the
shape by mast track position).  

I got an interesing comment from Mike Kitts (the Hypertech guy) last year
while I was in his board repair shop.  I was looking for a board to buy
second hand and he said "It's really hard to sell a standard shape board
right now even though the no-nose shape doesn't work".

We should take a poll, would you buy another no-nose board?  I say another,
because a lot of people already have one (my CFX is a moderate no-nose) and
it's much cheaper to cope with and learn to ride your no-nose, than it is
to buy a new board after you've been out on your no-nose twice.

Would you?

Yes

No

Only if I had ridden it and really really liked it

Craig

8'4" CFX Wave Slalom, 9'4" Progressive Composites Course Slalom
Wt 160#, Ht 6'3", Usually sail on high desert lakes near SLC in Ut
Go short or go home

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by wolfgang sorg » Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
>We should take a poll, would you buy another no-nose board?  I say another,
>because a lot of people already have one (my CFX is a moderate no-nose) and
>it's much cheaper to cope with and learn to ride your no-nose, than it is
>to buy a new board after you've been out on your no-nose twice.
>Would you?

>Yes

>No

>Only if I had ridden it and really really liked it

  (Can't test my actual boards as I do them mself, but try to test everything
   on the market and compare)

No-Nose again ?
YES,   but no radical no-noses: Volume not too far back, thin rails, thin but
                                not too narrow nose.

(Bad controll on no-noses is mostly due to extreme rails, too much volume and fin,
but a good classical board may be easier to ride nevertheless)

Hang loose !


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Soergel, grad. Student of electrical engineering at Clemson University
220 Elm Street # 122, Clemson, S.C. 29631, Phone: (803) 654-0930
...............................................................................
5000 miles away from home :-) and my boards :-(.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Patrick Powe » Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:00:00

I love mine.  I tried all the boards I could find, and that's what I liked
best.  It did what I wished my boards of the past would do, which is turn
sharply without losing power so that turns can be linked, as in skiing.  The
ultimate B & J shred machine, so responsive.  My summer goal is
to figure out the one-second jibe.  Probably have to be a lay-down ducker, just
one supercomplicated motion and you're jibed. It's gonna be SO cool.


<
<>I really really hate 'm. Just give me a classic wave board and i rip the
<>waves.What's your opinion. I really want to know. Maybe I have to work on my
<>technique to enjoy the new shapes.
<>Paul
<
<I don't like them either.  I find them unpleasant in bump and jump conditions.
<They don't pull off a nice carved jibe (it's more of a snap jibe) and I just
<can't seem to get enough control at speed in chop to go for a very big jump.
<I also find them harder to reattach after a spin out (it's not the skeg, it's
<the board).  I think having the thicher tail and the wide point aft makes them
<more unstable than a classic shape.  Everyone I know who rides them runs the
<mast track forward of center (sometimes as far forward as it will go) even
<with small sails.  I believe they're compensating for the instability by
<trying to move the force vectors closer to the nose (trying to correct for the
<shape by mast track position).  
<
<
<I got an interesing comment from Mike Kitts (the Hypertech guy) last year
<while I was in his board repair shop.  I was looking for a board to buy
<second hand and he said "It's really hard to sell a standard shape board
<right now even though the no-nose shape doesn't work".
<
<We should take a poll, would you buy another no-nose board?  I say another,
<because a lot of people already have one (my CFX is a moderate no-nose) and
<it's much cheaper to cope with and learn to ride your no-nose, than it is
<to buy a new board after you've been out on your no-nose twice.
<
<Would you?
<
<Yes
<
<No
<
<Only if I had ridden it and really really liked it
<
<
<
<Craig
<
<8'4" CFX Wave Slalom, 9'4" Progressive Composites Course Slalom
<Wt 160#, Ht 6'3", Usually sail on high desert lakes near SLC in Ut
<Go short or go home
<

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Bob Galv » Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:00:00

Would I buy another no-nose board?

I guess so, I just ordered an 8'8" version of my 8'2" ASD Wave Enduro.

Works for me!

 
 
 

No-Nose Boards

Post by Blaine Sawyer-HO-77163A(HOH1 » Fri, 21 Apr 1995 04:00:00


Quote:


>Sawyer-HO-77163A(HOH177)1063) writes:
>|> I can understand the reasoning for having all that volume in the
>|> tail of a no-nose race board:

>no-nose wave boards dont have the volume in the tail that the no-nose
>slalom boards have.
>also, wave boards have had their width greatly reduced (nearly 2") so
>maybe the tail may seem wider to you but in fact there is some visual
>impression due to the reduced main width.

Good point, I think that is the case.

Quote:
>> I like the Greenough board in Windsurfing Mag's
>> Yep, that's weird stuff and, yes, it definitely works.

>mmm... I have seen a lot of GG boards, windsurfers and before that
>kneeboards before he learnt windsurfing. I never saw him any picture of
>him turning on a wave, only down-the-line and jibes. Here also some shaper
>went weird with ultra-thin tails, but it was just a fad. For it to work
>you must enter all your turns at full speed.

Yes, it's a high wind board for more appropriate for sub-4.5 conditions,
and not what I would want for waves.  I would love to sail something
like it on a gorge nuker day.

More impressive, and more applicable to typical recreational sailors, are
other Greenough innovations:  his hull and foot blocks.

Quote:

>Try to demo a modern wave board.
>--


I have a "modern" wave board that's alot different from what I see
around me.  Paul C. Mindnich makes wave boards with hardish rails that
use a chine instead of rounded, soft rails.  Soft rails are comfortable
in high winds, but when the wind lulls, that tuck turns against you
and pulls the board off a plane as your momentum drops and the water
wraps around the rail, fully connected to the board.  A chine lets
the water release cleanly from the hull for a longer time as your
momentum drops.  Obviously these rails make the board quick to plane.

So how does Paul get away with using slalom-style rails?  He uses a hull
inspired by Greenough.  It has two concaves, a convex at the centerline,
and bevels near the rails.  The bevels make water release from the
hull before it gets to the rail.  When you press the rail down to change
directions, you are pressing against aerated water rather than dense
water.  This creates a loose springy feeling as you go rail-to-rail
rapidly without worry of coming off a plane.

The concaves and convex create a vacuum at the centerline without
upsetting the flow as a "v" does.  This hull provides stability,
even in radical turns that get your leeward (soon to be windward)
shoulder wet.

Paul reduced the nose width of his slalom designs in order to exploit
the excellant turning characteristics of surf board outlines.
He increased nose rocker to make the boards more friendly on choppy
high-wind surfaces.

He did this in 1987, and raced these boards in PBA and other events
in the gorge from '87 to around '90.

Every one back then was using fast, flat-rockered boards that couldn't
turn worth a damn.  He says he was a middle-of-the-pack sailor who
usually finished barely in the money.  Not too bad for an unsponsored
wave specialist that every one thought was nuts for using wave outlines
in slalom boards.  Now most of those folks are racing boards with
similar elliptical outlines, instead of boards with those long straight
outline sections.

So as far as checking out modern shapes, I've been sailing modern
outlines for the last five years.  And I don't want flat bottoms;
flat with v; or tuck all the way back to the wide point, footstraps,
or tail.  That's not to say new wave boards aren't good because
they do work well in windy conditions, but on the East Coast you need
something quick planing in the ocean.  (Pro-tech makes a light wind
wave board, but I haven't seen it.)  Funny thing is, a PCM 8'3" wave
board with a chine on the rails instead of tuck works great on the
Oregon Coast too.

--
___________________
Blane Sawyer
New Jersey USA