gybeing - how to curve?

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by Michal Krombhol » Thu, 28 May 1998 04:00:00


Hi,

I have just learned to waterstart and now working on gybes.
In mid-wind I can do a gybe pretty well but it's kind of a static thing.

I cannot make that effective curve, whenever I get back towards the fin
and try to shift the sail toward the wind, the board slows down and I
slowely turn up the wind. Any attempts to shift the weight into the turn
are finished in the water or on the sail. And of course in stronger
winds I am ending up in the water most of the time :-). When do I need
to get out of straps?

I use a longboard Fanatic 325/160l with 5.0 or 5.6 Wave sails.
Probably will be soon in the market for something lighter (90l?) with
bigger sail (6.4+?)  but do not know yet what.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Michal

 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by NLW TFW » Thu, 28 May 1998 04:00:00

Michal --
Go back a couple of months through www.dejanews.com for lengthy discussions of
jibing, with words such as oversheeting, jibing, etc in their subject lines. If
you're sailing in anything less than fairly heavy whitecaps with those 5.x wave
sails, you may be about 20 mph short of the required speed for carving jibes.
You should be at panic-inducing speeds to carve jibes, and there are about a
dozen precise steps involved.

Mike \m/
Never Leave Wind To Find Wind

 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by sailquik (Roger Jacks » Thu, 28 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>In mid-wind I can do a gybe pretty well but it's kind of a static thing.

>I cannot make that effective curve, whenever I get back towards the fin
>and try to shift the sail toward the wind, the board slows down and I
>slowely turn up the wind. Any attempts to shift the weight into the turn
>are finished in the water or on the sail. And of course in stronger
>winds I am ending up in the water most of the time :-). When do I need
>to get out of straps?

>I use a longboard Fanatic 325/160l with 5.0 or 5.6 Wave sails.
>Probably will be soon in the market for something lighter (90l?) with
>bigger sail (6.4+?)  but do not know yet what.
>Any comments?

Yep!
To quote Peter Hart in the Video "Carve Clinic II" You need a much bigger
motor!"

A 5.0 or 5.6 Wave sail is much too small to really get a board as big as
your 325 really planing in anything less than 20+ knots.
If this is the windrange you call  "mid-wind", then you need to work on
getting your back foot out of the strap and across the board up fairly far
forward, as I believe the Fanatic 325 is some what narrow  in the tail.
My guess is that you are staying back in the straps, and when you sheet
out, the mast foot pressure goes away and the tail sinks. And since you are
loosing speed very quickly, and still over on the upwind side of the board
it promptly does exactly what you are telling it to do and turns right
upwind.
You need to get your weight over to the downwind rail and forward to "set"
the rail, and then try to keep some mast foot pressure on to keep the rail
carving. Oversheeting might help, but on sails this small, my guess is you
simply aren't going fast enough.
You might try bearing off a little before you jibe to get as much speed as
possible (speed is you best friend here, and will be the biggest factor in
your ability to stay dry) and then pull your back foot out, step across the
board and apply firm pressure on the rail and keep it there.
Does your board have a centerboard? If so I hope you are raising it before
trying to jibe!
As for when to get out of the straps, you need not get out of the front
strap, but you will want to take your back foot out and "press" down the
lee rail when you feel you have enough speed, and have decided to "go for
it".
If you can, get hold of Peter Hart's Carve clinic I & II as he does a
really superb job of covering all types of long board and shortboard jibes,
and  really shows you many of the most common mistakes.
You can get them from Side Off Video
http://www.sideoff.com

Hope this helps!
sailquik (Roger Jackson) US 3704        (301)872-9459 (In MD)
F2/North/Sailworks/Tectonics/True Ames  (919)995-3204 (In Hatteras)
Lvl 1 WS Instructor



 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by Michal Krombhol » Thu, 28 May 1998 04:00:00

Bob

Quote:
> Crude answer:
> 1. Get speed.
> 2. Move back hand a few inches further back for leverage.
> 3. LOOK for a clear turn area.  If you hit someone, it is your fault.
> 4. Turn downwind a bit for even more speed.
> 5. Bring back foot out of strap and move it toward inside rail.
> 6. Press inside rail, bend knees, look under mast, keep weight slightly
> forward.
> 7. You are now turning. The rail shape will control this a great deal.  That is
> a separate discussion.
> 8. Sheet in hard to depower the sail, maybe think of spilling wind off of the
> front of the sail.  At this point you are turning a surfboard with a sail on
> it.

Do you mean, the real wind would "hit" the end of the boom and slide through sail
to the mast, if I were slower then the wind? (I still have some problems with ws
specific english wording).
wind        sail           speed vector
 I     *         I
 I     |         I
 V     |         I
       O mast    V

Quote:
> 9. You should be going as fast or faster than the wind, so for the sail there
> is a brief moment of no wind.  Flip it.
>     - If it is very windy, get the boom before changing feet
>     - Normal wind, you can step during the sail flip
>     - Light wind, you may need to finish like a long board jibe

But I should ideally go faster than the real wind. The imaginary wind would then
hit the mast (front of the sail), so to speak. And that's why you sheet in rather
then out? Sheeting out would make you go with the wind speed at the most, I
suppose? And that's what I experience in my "static" jibe (how should I spell it? I
suppose "gibe"  is still OK? but "gybe" is not).

Quote:
> 10. Into harness and straps, go.

Can't wait to try it,
Michal
 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by Michal Krombhol » Thu, 28 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> A 5.0 or 5.6 Wave sail is much too small to really get a board as big as
> your 325 really planing in anything less than 20+ knots.
> If this is the windrange you call  "mid-wind", then you need to work on
> getting your back foot out of the strap and across the board up fairly far
> forward, as I believe the Fanatic 325 is some what narrow  in the tail.

Looks like my idea of full planning does not agree with the common sence. Being

in straps and*** in the harnes does not guarantee the required speed. OK!
I do need a bigger sail.

Quote:
> My guess is that you are staying back in the straps, and when you sheet
> out, the mast foot pressure goes away and the tail sinks. And since you are
> loosing speed very quickly, and still over on the upwind side of the board
> it promptly does exactly what you are telling it to do and turns right
> upwind.

That sounds right. My feet preasure pushes tail and make the bord to turn or
rather rotate over the mast foot, right?So the phisical force that make you
carve is board curvature or is it mast-feet combination?

Now, I just have to wait for a rain to end in "sunny" California....

Thanks,
Michal

 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by Glesh » Fri, 29 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>>In mid-wind I can do a gybe pretty well but it's kind of a static thing.

>>I cannot make that effective curve, whenever I get back towards the fin
>>and try to shift the sail toward the wind, the board slows down and I
>>slowely turn up the wind. Any attempts to shift the weight into the turn
>>are finished in the water or on the sail. And of course in stronger
>>winds I am ending up in the water most of the time :-). When do I need
>>to get out of straps?

Crude answer:
1. Get speed.
2. Move back hand a few inches further back for leverage.
3. LOOK for a clear turn area.  If you hit someone, it is your fault.
4. Turn downwind a bit for even more speed.
5. Bring back foot out of strap and move it toward inside rail.
6. Press inside rail, bend knees, look under mast, keep weight slightly
forward.
7. You are now turning. The rail shape will control this a great deal.  That is
a separate discussion.
8. Sheet in hard to depower the sail, maybe think of spilling wind off of the
front of the sail.  At this point you are turning a surfboard with a sail on
it.
9. You should be going as fast or faster than the wind, so for the sail there
is a brief moment of no wind.  Flip it.
    - If it is very windy, get the boom before changing feet
    - Normal wind, you can step during the sail flip
    - Light wind, you may need to finish like a long board jibe
10. Into harness and straps, go.

Luck,

Bob

 
 
 

gybeing - how to curve?

Post by Walter Clar » Sat, 30 May 1998 04:00:00

Written descriptions of how to do something as intricate as a jibe are at
best difficult to visualize for me.  My wife and I bought Cort Larned's
POWER JIBE video years ago and used it to learn to jibe. We practically
wore it out but it was worth it.  I recommend it highly.

Walter



Quote:
> Hi,

> I have just learned to waterstart and now working on gybes.
> In mid-wind I can do a gybe pretty well but it's kind of a static thing.

> I cannot make that effective curve, whenever I get back towards the fin
> and try to shift the sail toward the wind, the board slows down and I
> slowely turn up the wind. Any attempts to shift the weight into the turn
> are finished in the water or on the sail. And of course in stronger
> winds I am ending up in the water most of the time :-). When do I need
> to get out of straps?

> I use a longboard Fanatic 325/160l with 5.0 or 5.6 Wave sails.
> Probably will be soon in the market for something lighter (90l?) with
> bigger sail (6.4+?)  but do not know yet what.

> Any comments?

> Thanks,
> Michal