Sport Today

by **Brian Collis US+** » Wed, 10 May 2000 04:00:00

Hello all,

This is one of those questions that I've had rolling around in my head
for the last couple of weeks. I've heard and seen the effects of the sun
on monofilm, and I'm sure that the sun will also affect a board in some
way after years of exposure, but what is the affect on a carbon mast?

just wondering..

Brian

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Hugo** » Wed, 10 May 2000 04:00:00

Sometimes they get a nice curve when exposed to the sun on just one side,
very funny when you're just about to rig!
Not sure if sunlight will damage the carbon or glas fibres in the mast, but
I'm pretty sure it will just becuase almost all chemicals are "damaged" in
high temperature or direct radiation.
See YA
Hugo

Quote:

> Hello all,

> This is one of those questions that I've had rolling around in my head
> for the last couple of weeks. I've heard and seen the effects of the sun
> on monofilm, and I'm sure that the sun will also affect a board in some
> way after years of exposure, but what is the affect on a carbon mast?

> just wondering..

> Brian

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Mark H** » Wed, 10 May 2000 04:00:00

I saw some black, carbon-50 masts a couple years ago that had been stored
outside all spring-summer-fall season long, having had a lot of direct
exposure to the sun and other elements. They had begun turning white, the
glass beginning to separate and the masts getting "fuzzy." Handling them
resulted in immediate "itchy fingers."

by **The Do** » Wed, 10 May 2000 04:00:00

I may be wrong, but I believe that most of the carbon masts
use some kind of prepreg construction. That would require a
fairly high curing temperature - probably something quite a
bit higher than beach side/sitting in the sun temps.

If I had to guess, most of the damage would come from UV
exposure. Maybe we can get Don from Gulftech to answer this
one.... He loves shop talk.

The Dog

Quote:

> Not sure if sunlight will damage the carbon or glas fibres in the mast, but
> I'm pretty sure it will just becuase almost all chemicals are "damaged" in
> high temperature or direct radiation.

--
Brian "The Dog" Cunningham
http://web2.airmail.net/bcunning

Some days you're the dog,
and some days you're the hydrant.

by **Dale Gambl** » Wed, 10 May 2000 04:00:00

From years of working with plastics I can tell you that sun is the major
destroyer of all plastics, including carbon-fibre reinforced ones. Keep your
mast covered when not using it if you can, I just use a plastic tarp as a
cheap sacrificial cover over my stuff when its laying around in the sun.
I pity all those poor sots who've bought vinyl siding for their houses. It
won't be too many years before it'll be kinda brittle and shatter easily.
Cheers,
Dale

Quote:

> Hello all,

> This is one of those questions that I've had rolling around in my head
> for the last couple of weeks. I've heard and seen the effects of the sun
> on monofilm, and I'm sure that the sun will also affect a board in some
> way after years of exposure, but what is the affect on a carbon mast?

> just wondering..

> Brian

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Wolfgang Soerge** » Thu, 11 May 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Hello all,

> This is one of those questions that I've had rolling around in my head
> for the last couple of weeks. I've heard and seen the effects of the sun
> on monofilm, and I'm sure that the sun will also affect a board in some
> way after years of exposure, but what is the affect on a carbon mast?

SOme years ago, when 60% carbon content was the high end of the market,
there were some reports and warnings of carbon masts failing when
exposed to sunlight too much. Haven't heard too much about that lately,
but this could be because people don't let their gear toast in the sun
too much anymore.
In general, masts are at a risk:
+ The sun may heat up the (black) mast to temperatures well above the
design limits of the epoxy used to manufacture it. ALthough the resin
may need temps in excess of 100 C to cure / temper, the maximal
temperature at which the resin remains stiff and can keep the fabric
together may be well under 100 C , more like 70 - 80 C. These
temperatures can be easily reached when leaving a black mast in the sun.
So i'd generlly store rigs in the shade / keep them covered and would
cool down a mast (dip it into the water) before rigging or loading it. A
quick pump of a rig which had been sitting in the sun for a few hours to
see wether the trim is still ok could mean disaster...
+ Epoxy generally is not 100% UV stable but degrades with longer UV
exposure. Masts are made from epoxy and are often not protected by
UV-proof paint. Probabely carbon fabric also does not get stronger when
exposed to UV light, Kevlar definitely gets damaged over time.

--
Wolfgang

by **Tom von Alte** » Mon, 15 May 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> temperatures (to 70-80 C) can be easily reached when leaving a
> black mast in the sun. So i'd generlly store rigs in the shade
> / keep them covered and would cool down a mast (dip it into
> the water) before rigging or loading it....

Probably not bad advice, and certainly it wouldn't be harmful to
be cautious. But, do you really think a carbon mast will get that
hot in the sun? Around 65C is the temperature at which you can't
keep your hand on something. I've never left my mast out in the
hot sun long enough to test it, but has anyone had their mast
too hot to handle?
_____________
Tom von Alten http://pobox.com/~tva

by **Wolfgang Soerge** » Mon, 15 May 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> > temperatures (to 70-80 C) can be easily reached when leaving a
> > black mast in the sun. So i'd generlly store rigs in the shade
> > / keep them covered and would cool down a mast (dip it into
> > the water) before rigging or loading it....

> Probably not bad advice, and certainly it wouldn't be harmful to
> be cautious. But, do you really think a carbon mast will get that
> hot in the sun? Around 65C is the temperature at which you can't
> keep your hand on something. I've never left my mast out in the
> hot sun long enough to test it, but has anyone had their mast
> too hot to handle?

I didn't get burned by a mast yet (but can certainly well feel which
side faced the sun) but on occasion found a black-painted extension to
be pretty hot, as well as black cars (at the outside) and car
interiours. And this was no farther south than southern France or
Sardegna, not in mid summer as well.
Getting burned may well be a function of heat conductivity in addition
to temperature: One ussually does not get burned when touching the dry
wooden walls and floors in a sauna (at over 90 C). But i would not want
to get prolonged expossure to metal or water at these temperatures.
--
Wolfgang

by **Howard & Jayne Ferguso** » Mon, 15 May 2000 04:00:00

I had a friend who did minor repair work to his fiberglass covered
board then to make it look new, painted it orange and black. First
time he used it and left it laying in the sun, the black areas of the
board developed "blisters", the orange areas were unaffected.

Howard

Quote:

> > > temperatures (to 70-80 C) can be easily reached when leaving a
> > > black mast in the sun. So i'd generlly store rigs in the shade
> > > / keep them covered and would cool down a mast (dip it into
> > > the water) before rigging or loading it....

> > Probably not bad advice, and certainly it wouldn't be harmful to
> > be cautious. But, do you really think a carbon mast will get that
> > hot in the sun? Around 65C is the temperature at which you can't
> > keep your hand on something. I've never left my mast out in the
> > hot sun long enough to test it, but has anyone had their mast
> > too hot to handle?

> I didn't get burned by a mast yet (but can certainly well feel which
> side faced the sun) but on occasion found a black-painted extension to
> be pretty hot, as well as black cars (at the outside) and car
> interiours. And this was no farther south than southern France or
> Sardegna, not in mid summer as well.
> Getting burned may well be a function of heat conductivity in addition
> to temperature: One ussually does not get burned when touching the dry
> wooden walls and floors in a sauna (at over 90 C). But i would not want
> to get prolonged expossure to metal or water at these temperatures.
> --
> Wolfgang

by **Mike** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> > temperatures (to 70-80 C) can be easily reached when leaving a
> > black mast in the sun. So i'd generlly store rigs in the shade
> > / keep them covered and would cool down a mast (dip it into
> > the water) before rigging or loading it....

> Probably not bad advice, and certainly it wouldn't be harmful to
> be cautious. But, do you really think a carbon mast will get that
> hot in the sun? Around 65C is the temperature at which you can't
> keep your hand on something. I've never left my mast out in the
> hot sun long enough to test it, but has anyone had their mast
> too hot to handle?

Sure .... during any REALLY good B&J sesh ...

But, seriously, folks ... the limited heat conductivity of a mast might make
it feel much like firewalking on hot lava coals. Without BTUs being
transferred to the hand, temperature perception is limited.

But, hot or not, I've never yet been willig to take any significant time
covering my rigged stuff, even in NM, the uv and skin cancer capitol of the
U.S. mainland. If shade's convenient I use it, but otherwise ... I'M GOIN'
SAILIN'! I often have one or more rigs laying out in the sun all day, and
have never had a mast fail yet where the sun could hit it. Don't mean it
can't; do mean it ain't yet. Some things aren't worth sacrificing shred time
for.

Mike \m/

by **Tom von Alte** » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Getting burned may well be a function of heat conductivity in
> addition to temperature: One ussually does not get burned when
> touching the dry wooden walls and floors in a sauna (at over 90 C).

Yes, certainly the thermal conductivity matters. A black car or
aluminum mast would be worse than a carbon fiber mast.
_____________
Tom von Alten http://pobox.com/~tva

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