PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Barry Ritche » Sun, 18 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Pasted below, a short summary from Oct/Nov-98 New England Windsurfing Journal (sorry if someone already ran this) aimed at those that can't reason why someone would sail without a PFD.

No flames on how a PFD saved your life please...  -Barry Ritchey

+++++++++++++++++++++

Excerpted from: Oct/Nov '98 New England Windsurfing Journal

On Labor Day Sunday, shortly after noon, Tony Armenta was run over by a 24-foot, twin-screw powerboat at Dennis Beach, Cape Cod. It seems the skipper was dialing in that new GPS and not paying attention. While preparing to waterstart, Tony looked upwind for a gust and saw the bottom hull of a boat about to hit. He let go of his gear and dove for the bottom. As the boat passed over, he felt a quiet stillness and then felt a dull flapping on the back of his legs. Back on the surface of the water, Tony reached back to feel what had happened to his legs, and his hand went inside his leg...

After over 300 stitches, metal staples, surgery, and a 3-day hospital visit, Tony is at home recovering. With time, Tony hopes to back on the water ASAP.

Tony feels that it was fortunate he wasn't wearing a life preserver. "There's no way I would have been able to dive deep enough if I had been wearing a PFD. The boat would have hit me on the head and it would have been all over."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Check out NEWJ (a great regional rag) for more details...   -B

  vcard.vcf
< 1K Download
 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by benKauf.. » Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
> No flames on how a PFD saved your life please...  -Barry Ritchey

Barry,

Tony is a really nice guy. He was one of the sales people at Sailways
that I used to do business with.  He is also a very lucky guy to be
alive after being ran over by a moron who didn't have enough sense to
look where he was going. Despite receiving over 300 sutures, he hopes to
be back on the water as soon as he can.

I hope that anyone considering using a PFD won't be put off by this
incident because this type of accident is very rare. The article states
(quote from New England Windsurfing Journal Vol. XV, No. 8):

..The odds of a power boat scoring a direct hit on a windsurfer are
arguably very small ("in all my involvement with windsurfing and
boating, I've never heard of this happening before," says Tony)....  
There are specific cases where it can be shown that any "safety device"
has short comings.  Even seat belts - where the car explodes upon impact
one could argue that it would be safer to be thrown clear of the
vehicle, or be able to jump out of a car as it rolls over a cliff.
However, for the vast majority of non-wavesailing windsurfing, a PFD is
a life saver not taker.   Ben Kaufman

--
Ben Kaufman

antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.

 - 10/18/98

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Barry Ritche » Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Ben,

My intent was to shed some light on the flip side to the "to wear or not to wear" dilemma. I tire of blanket pro PFD use statements by many of the "experts" on this forum as well as the idiot logic of PFD's aren't cool. Although I do not wear a PFD, I always wear some neoprene unless it's incredibly hot or at least wear a flak jacket. And yes, the odds or getting struck by a boat are slim, but the odds of having your rig detach from the board are very probable (I'm statistically overdue myself). Swimming after a detached board is a no-win situation with a PFD. Otherwise you'd see PFD's in the olympic swimming events. And PFDs are nice if you're knocked unconscious... the authorities can find the body much easier...  I'm digressing. My apologies.   Keep us up to date on Tony's recovery. -Barry

Quote:


> > No flames on how a PFD saved your life please...  -Barry Ritchey

> Barry,

> Tony is a really nice guy. He was one of the sales people at Sailways
> that I used to do business with.  He is also a very lucky guy to be
> alive after being ran over by a moron who didn't have enough sense to
> look where he was going. Despite receiving over 300 sutures, he hopes to
> be back on the water as soon as he can.

> I hope that anyone considering using a PFD won't be put off by this
> incident because this type of accident is very rare. The article states
> (quote from New England Windsurfing Journal Vol. XV, No. 8):

> ..The odds of a power boat scoring a direct hit on a windsurfer are
> arguably very small ("in all my involvement with windsurfing and
> boating, I've never heard of this happening before," says Tony)....
> There are specific cases where it can be shown that any "safety device"
> has short comings.  Even seat belts - where the car explodes upon impact
> one could argue that it would be safer to be thrown clear of the
> vehicle, or be able to jump out of a car as it rolls over a cliff.
> However, for the vast majority of non-wavesailing windsurfing, a PFD is
> a life saver not taker.   Ben Kaufman

> --
> Ben Kaufman

> antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.

>  - 10/18/98

  vcard.vcf
< 1K Download

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by (Pete Cresswe » Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>I hope that anyone considering using a PFD won't be put off by this
>incident because this type of accident is very rare. The article states
>(quote from New England Windsurfing Journal Vol. XV, No. 8):

Yeah, but I would think that now the rational consumer needs to hear an anectode
about somebody who was wearing appropriate thermal protection (i.e. the right
wet suit or dry suit for the water temp...) but NOT a PFD and died because they
did not have a PFD on.

Anybody got one?
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Glesh » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00

My $.02 with no further comment:

1. I use a PFD in Lake sailing sometimes because of the convenience for
waterstarting.

2. I never use a PFD when wave sailing because of the problem of getting under
waves when caught in the impact zone.  I am caught in the impact zone more than
I would like.

Bob

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by benKauf.. » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
> Keep us up to date on Tony's recovery. -Barry

Barry,

I left a message on this voice mail the other day (considering
snowboarding in addition to XC skiing this year). I'll ask him if
there's any follow up to the story, like what kind of $resolution$ did
he come to with the guy who hit him.  

Ben

--
Ben Kaufman

antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.

 - 10/19/98

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by TomBuckO » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Barry:

I wear a PFD because I am LAZY and like the extra flotation it gives me for
waterstarting those huge sails.

I could care less if anyone else does.

(Also the wife insists I wear one when sailing alone.  Now THAT is really
stupid.)

Tom  - Chicago

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by benKauf.. » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
> Yeah, but I would think that now the rational consumer needs to hear
> an anectode about somebody who was wearing appropriate thermal
> protection (i.e. the right wet suit or dry suit for the water temp...)

  > but NOT a PFD and died because they did not have a PFD on.

Quote:

> Anybody got one?

 I think there was one discussed here within the last year. A windsurfer
washed up to shore in wet suit, bruises on his head - in CA somewhere.

Ben

--
Ben Kaufman

antispam: To Email me, change domain from spam_sync to pobox.

 - 10/19/98

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Alan Ballo » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Did I ever tell you guys about the lucky bullet I always carry over my
heart?  Well one day I was walking  in midtown Manhattan when a Bible fell
from a skyscraper and struck me right in the chest.  Fortunately, I was
carrying my lucky bullet right over my heart, where the bullet struck me. If
it hadn't been for that bullet, the Bible would have struck me dead!
 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Glesh » Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>Also the wife insists I wear one when sailing alone.  Now THAT is really
>stupid.

Insurance check comes faster with a body.  I have considered tatooing my social
security number on the bottom of my foot for just this purpose.

Bob

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by William Fragak » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


Quote:


> >I hope that anyone considering using a PFD won't be put off by this
> >incident because this type of accident is very rare. The article states
> >(quote from New England Windsurfing Journal Vol. XV, No. 8):

> Yeah, but I would think that now the rational consumer needs to hear an
anectode
> about somebody who was wearing appropriate thermal protection (i.e. the right
> wet suit or dry suit for the water temp...) but NOT a PFD and died
because they
> did not have a PFD on.

> Anybody got one?
> -----------------------
> Pete Cresswell

Real close to one... I have a friend who was hit by a boat.  Did not get
run over but got a good glancing blow just behind the bow of the boat
(yeah, if he had been 2 ft further ahead, he'd be bass chow).
Fortunately, he was able to remain conscious (sp?) despite the force of
impact.  But afterwards, he remarks that it would have been real nice to
have had a pfd on.  

His back still troubles him a bit but he escaped major injury.

No, he didn't die.  But I'd rather have him around than supply you the
perfect anecdote.

William

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Ed Scot » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>  I think there was one discussed here within the last year. A windsurfer
> washed up to shore in wet suit, bruises on his head - in CA somewhere.

> Ben

Two sailors died in SF Bay in 1996.  One launched from Oyster Point in a
shorty.  The body was found near Oakland Airport.  The prevailing view was
he died of hypothermia (2mm shorty in early season - Memorial Day), or went
into an epileptic fit and drowned.  In either event, my understanding was
there were head injuries, but I thought they might have been caused by the
body being pushed up against the rip-rap.  I don't know if he was wearing a
PFD.

The second sailor died in late October on a 3.5 day at Third at dead low
tide.  He was wearing a PFD (and a helmet, I think).  He suffered a broken
neck.  The prevailing view was that he ran aground on a full-out plane and
hit his mast or similar hard object.  The body was found a couple days
later near Palo Alto airport.

-Ed

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by DCPMi » Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Sounds like more of a freak accident than anything else...I can't think of many
situations where you could escape trouble by diving underwater (I'm talking
abnout flat water sailing).
 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by NLW TFW » Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I once swam down at least 15 feet into the Columbia River (the Gorge) chasing a
sinking camber inducer. I didn't notice the float vest and full streamer I was
wearing.

Yep -- caught the inducer.

Mike \m/

 
 
 

PFD could have killed (please, not another PFD debate...)

Post by Barry Ritche » Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:00:00

Notice the keyword that Mike spoke of - "FLOAT VEST" not
PFD. Float vests / flak jackets probably have 1/3 the
flotation and bulk of a PFD. -B

Quote:

> I once swam down at least 15 feet into the Columbia River (the Gorge) chasing a
> sinking camber inducer. I didn't notice the float vest and full streamer I was
> wearing.

> Yep -- caught the inducer.

> Mike \m/