Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by (j. hamilton » Wed, 25 May 1994 11:26:51


This topic could present some interesting notes.  Personally, I'd like to
see other sailors comments.

___________

Wave rules, simply stated are easy.  Problems occur in the 'exceptions'
cases.

Whenever I'm on the face coming in, treat others as you'd like to be
treated.  If the waves are 'no big deal' and the outbound can get out, then
one tries to maximize the ride while still giving room.  Plan ahead.  If
you know the outbound has blown it and is dead meat no matter what, then
still give room...

How much room ?

Ever had an outbound looper land within 5 ft of you ?!  That to me is not
enough room.  When you are down in the wash zone, you could easily get hurt
by an over-enthusiastic, but well intending sailor.  More room is better
than less.

What do you do here ..  

You are outbound, in control and can head up or down from an incoming
sailor.  Incoming is high on an 8' face and is set for either rights or
lefts.  He happens to be your bud, and is very competent - in control.  He
thinks he could left first, followed by a bottom turn below and behind you.
 With side shore at Waddell, going out is Starboard.  Going out, you
hesitate a moment, then trying to give in-bound more room, and to take an
easier ride over the top, you head downwind slightly (your left).  Your
bud, decides to cut infront and go for multiple rights, and also cuts to
his right.
                      Major collision recipe.

   Sometimes best intentions are dealt a poor hand.

What about ..

Three sailors are set up on incoming, head to logo.  Generally it's a
right.  The upwind sailor initiates a right forcing the 'sandwiched' dancer
to play also (me of course).  Unfortunately, the downwind sailor - who's
new to the wave thing - isn't comfortable with the right bottom turn and
continues on the left.

Mr. Sandwich is now compressed.  He might be able to go behind downwind and
still ride, or be rude and shoot & cut ahead infront.  Tricky, sticky.

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Harold Blakn » Fri, 27 May 1994 18:35:09


Quote:

>Subject: Re: Wave Sialing Etiquette
>Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 19:45:57 GMT
>In rec.windsurfing, Paul Delzio writes:
>: ...I was finishing a waterstart in the 'impact zone' when a
>: sailor was bearing down on me while on a small wave.  I tried in vain to
>: avoid him but I was 'stalled' and he ended up 'ramming' straight into my
>: board.  Who is at fault here??  Ws there some way that i could have
>: avoided this incident?
>Your description sounds like you got run over by an idiot.  You were there,
>you tell us - was there some way?
>The only thing that sounds likely to me is that if you new he was coming,
>and you were visible to him, you shouldn't have tried to waterstart, but
>rather held your position and let him figure out how to avoid you.
>I guess the rules might be different on waves, but the number one rule of
>seamanship can be summarized as "AVOID COLLISION."  If people keep that in
>mind, it usually isn't necessary to get in to the more detailed rules like
>that the overtaking/more manueverable/etc. vessel must give way.
>(BTW, hogging a wave might be an etiquette issue, but collision is a little
>more serious than that.)

I realize this is not wave sailing related, but I just though I'd share
another common scenario to the right of way thread.
What if two people are coming at each other (slalom/flat water) at a high rate
of speed (full tilt) and both are trying to pinch upwind as much as possible.
Now these people are friends so they usually get a little closer than normal.
As we (er...the two sailors) close in on each other the starboard sailor
should have the right of way and should be able to stay his ground and the
other sailor (port) must give way (that's the way I though it was). As I
always heard, it is best to avoid a collision. So at the last moment when
impact seems imminent (port sailor not bearing off) I (starboard sailor)
decide to bear off to give way to the port sailor, so does he...WRONG->CRASH.
Result, 2 broken ribs, one ripped sail and a fin in my board up to the
stringer. That was actually lucky considering the potential impact speed of
40+ mph. Now, I end up paying for all repairs and my doctors bills since I
didn't "maintain my course", but I was the starboard sailor?!?  No big deal,
but a very big learning experience.
Conclusion: Don't want to do that again! From now on, I don't even get close to
making a "last minute" decision. I now make it well know *far* in advance
which side I'll be passing on and if that fails, I'll stall so that I'm at
least going much slower. In general, I *really* keep my distance from all
sailors.

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Richard Engelbrecht-Wigga » Fri, 27 May 1994 19:37:41


Quote:

>As we (er...the two sailors) close in on each other the starboard sailor
>should have the right of way and should be able to stay his ground and the

Contrary to popular conception, the rules in effect most places
(either the ColRegs or the Inland Water Rules) never give a boat
the right-of-way; the phrase "right-of-way" doesn't appear in the
rules.

Quote:
>other sailor (port) must give way (that's the way I though it was). As I
>always heard, it is best to avoid a collision. So at the last moment when
>impact seems imminent (port sailor not bearing off) I (starboard sailor)
>decide to bear off to give way to the port sailor, so does he...WRONG->CRASH.
>  ...    Now, I end up paying for all repairs and my doctors bills since I
>didn't "maintain my course", but I was the starboard sailor?!?

Exactly.  The prime directive is to avoid a collision.  In addition
the starboard sailor must maintain course once changing course could
result in a collision.  So what is a starboard sailor to do?  Star-
board starts maintaining course quite early.  If port changes course
so that the boats are no longer on a collision course, then fine;
starboard must continue to maintain course and port may do anything
so long as it doesn't set up a collision.  If port does not change
course soon enough in the opinion of starboard, the starboard must
bail out.  BUT, starboard must have planned ahead enough so that
he/she bails out in a way that no collision results no matter what
port was in the process of doing.

In many ways, the rules put more burdens on starboard than on port.
But if boats are on a collision course, then it would normally
be starboard that maintains course.  Since the rules were written
for boats that normally like to maintain course, and since "way"
can be defined as "the course [in the absense of temporary
obstructions] from one point to another," the rules do in some
sense give starboard the right-of-way.  But, in the same sense,
they give port the right-to-change-way.

(Rules among consenting boats racing are quite another matter.)

Richard E+17

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Richard Engelbrecht-Wigga » Fri, 27 May 1994 21:10:40


Quote:

>It would be a good idea to post the basic right of way rules (in waves
>and flat water) as a FAQ.

What "right of way" rules?

As I understand things, the default rules for navigable water
(roughly speaking, water from which a commercial vessal can
get to sea) are the ColRegs or the very similar Inland Rules,
depending on where you are.  Neither ever uses the phrase "right-
of-way." Their prime directive is to "avoid collisions" and
they specify lots of things that you MUST do to this end; they
don't say that you have a right to do this or to do that.

Certain groups, for example sailboat racers, have their own
rules.  These sometimes give a boat specific rights--for
example, luffing rights--to do some rather wild things.  But
the racing rules only apply among racers; they do not, for
example, give any boat the right to luff a non-racer.

Certain jurisdictions--I believe that the Port of New York
is an example--have their own rules even though the affected
water is navigable.  And of course, individual states, towns,
and homeowners associations make the rules--often, but not
necessarily, based on the Inland Rules or ColRegs--for water
under their jurisdiction.

I gather that certain sites suitable for wave sailing also
have their own rules.  But I believe these to be "local."
In particular, I wouldn't expect the wave sailing rules for
west coast site X to be the same as at some east coast site Y;
they may happen to be similar, but I know of no reason for
them to be the same.

Richard E+17

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Patrice Boi » Fri, 27 May 1994 23:46:20

: other sailor (port) must give way (that's the way I though it was). As I
: always heard, it is best to avoid a collision. So at the last moment when
: impact seems imminent (port sailor not bearing off) I (starboard sailor)
: decide to bear off to give way to the port sailor, so does he...WRONG->CRASH.
: Result, 2 broken ribs, one ripped sail and a fin in my board up to the
: stringer. That was actually lucky considering the potential impact speed of
: 40+ mph. Now, I end up paying for all repairs and my doctors bills since I
: didn't "maintain my course", but I was the starboard sailor?!?  No big deal,
: but a very big learning experience.
: Conclusion: Don't want to do that again! From now on, I don't even get close to
: making a "last minute" decision. I now make it well know *far* in advance
: which side I'll be passing on and if that fails, I'll stall so that I'm at
: least going much slower. In general, I *really* keep my distance from all
: sailors.

Where "wave sailing rules" do not apply, there is one thing a starboard
sailor should do to avoid collision: manifest your intention of claiming
right of way, either by yelling "starboard" (sometimes not practical in
windy, noisy conditions), or sometimes making eye contact with the other
sailor is sufficient to "tell" him what you will be doing.  There are A
LOT of sailors out there who don't even come close to knowing the basic
rules of right of way, and no-one should expect that because they have the
right of way, the other sailor will automatically make room for you.  

It would be a good idea to post the basic right of way rules (in waves
and flat water) as a FAQ.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice Boily

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Patrice Boi » Sat, 28 May 1994 11:38:37


: I know I should know this, but how do I tell if I am the starboard sailer?

: and how can I remember this without having to go through all kinds of definitions of
: windward, lee'ard and what not...

If your right hand is the one near the mast, you're on starboard tack.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice Boily

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Daniel H Burne » Sat, 28 May 1994 00:59:03

I know I should know this, but how do I tell if I am the starboard sailer?

and how can I remember this without having to go through all kinds of definitions of
windward, lee'ard and what not...

Something like "The wind hits your right shoulder before your left"?

I agree though - don't leave things to chance (or the other guys knowledge of the rules)
I steer obviously clear.

Dan

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Wayne Berthiau » Sun, 29 May 1994 02:00:50


Quote:
(Daniel H Burnett) writes:
> I know I should know this, but how do I tell if I am the starboard sailer?

> and how can I remember this without having to go through all kinds of
definitions of
> windward, lee'ard and what not...

> Something like "The wind hits your right shoulder before your left"?

> I agree though - don't leave things to chance (or the other guys

knowledge of the rules)
Quote:
> I steer obviously clear.

> Dan

        Front hand is the left hand, you're on a port tack.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"One man can make a difference and every man should try." -unknown
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by STYLES,DUAINE,LEST » Sun, 29 May 1994 06:15:00

(Lot's of stuff deleted!)>

Quote:
>Where "wave sailing rules" do not apply, there is one thing a starboard
>sailor should do to avoid collision: manifest your intention of claiming
>right of way, either by yelling "starboard" (sometimes not practical in
>windy, noisy conditions), or sometimes making eye contact with the other
>sailor is sufficient to "tell" him what you will be doing.  There are A
>LOT of sailors out there who don't even come close to knowing the basic
>rules of right of way, and no-one should expect that because they have the
>right of way, the other sailor will automatically make room for you.  

>It would be a good idea to post the basic right of way rules (in waves
>and flat water) as a FAQ.

>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Patrice Boily

I agree, but there are still going to be people out there who don't care
what the rules of right away are.  They are going to take the right of way
regardless of what you do or say.

I had an incident last year with a person who failed to yield rights.
(After discussing the incident with him afterward I found that he considered
himself to be the only person with rights.)  I nearly speared him in the
groin with the nose of my 8.8 (I bore away out of the kindness of my own
heart :-) ].

It's these people that you really have to look out for.

***************************************************************************
* Duaine Styles                                  * dls6585.utarlg.uta.edu *
* I like small boards and cambered sails because *       Lifes short      *
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Ah!? Wave Rules, Yes.

Post by Christian Dubi » Mon, 30 May 1994 08:38:36



Quote:
>I know I should know this, but how do I tell if I am the starboard sailer?

>and how can I remember this without having to go through all kinds of definitions of
>windward, lee'ard and what not...

>Something like "The wind hits your right shoulder before your left"?

>I agree though - don't leave things to chance (or the other guys knowledge of the rules)
>I steer obviously clear.

>Dan

Whenever your right hand is closer to the mast you are on a starboard tack.